Traded Patrick Ryder traded to Port for picks 17 and 37

[Jade]

Surely they know that they are farked and cutting a deal is the best outcome?

You mean as opposed to defending the evidence against a doping violation?

FMD.....

 

[citizen-erased]

I don't understand the bolded. So players can only use the so called clause when issued with show cause notices?

wouldn't have thought so.
The clause around breach of conduct applies to all players and i don't think it's sole jurisdiction is anything that can get them in strife with ASADA/WADA.

 

[citizen-erased]

Are Essendon players simply just waiting for someone like Ryder or Monfries to cut a deal, open the floodgates and then it doesn't look like they are rolling over on their club? Surely they know that they are farked and cutting a deal is the best outcome?

the club has been punished by the AFL. I'm not entirely sure what is left with regards to cutting a deal.

The players are the subject of the show cause notices, and regardless of where they are playing, they are subject to the outcomes of those notices and any subsequent infractions. While not immune to these impacts, the way I see it, unless the club appeals fridays decision, it's over for them. It's back to aiding the players through the investigation.

All of which has little bearing on this thread, as I don't see any outcomes landing this side of October 6 and any club trading for Paddy is about as knowledgable of the outcome as we are right now...which is not very

 

[morgoth]

I don't understand the bolded. So players can only use the so called clause when issued with show cause notices?

It just makes it easier. If you were banned from playing because of what your employer did, proving a serious breach is a lot easier.

 

[morgoth]

It's quite clear Ryder has absolutely no interest in doing this though. The media threw this out into the public domain and it's been lapped up so willingly.
He's gone to 4 different clubs in the lead up to trade week and alerted the club to his wishes nearly 3 weeks prior to trade week. he's done virtually everything he could with dignity to this point. And the club has only said that he is wanted by the club and that they'd like to discuss it with him. Why everyone believes the two parties are at loggerheads over this because they want to see the EFC screwed at the trade table is baffling.

Until you refuse to take what is offered, that is when he is going to have to make a call re the breach avenue.

 

[Slax]

It's quite clear Ryder has absolutely no interest in doing this though. The media threw this out into the public domain and it's been lapped up so willingly.
He's gone to 4 different clubs in the lead up to trade week and alerted the club to his wishes nearly 3 weeks prior to trade week. he's done virtually everything he could with dignity to this point. And the club has only said that he is wanted by the club and that they'd like to discuss it with him. Why everyone believes the two parties are at loggerheads over this because they want to see the EFC screwed at the trade table is baffling.

It me be that he has lost faith in the club's direction and the administration of the club. He may well though want to try and help the playing group as best he can on the way out which means trying to get a trade, walking out means they get nothing and are left feeling abandoned.

 

[marty36]

Was told yesterday that Ryder has not been issued with a SC notice and that is why Essendon is playing hard ball as that means there is no breach of his contract.

Of course the flip side could be that he has cut a deal with ASADA and it waiting to activate it. Once he does he has a clear breach as he will have been found guilty of doping due to a club instigated program.

Seriously someone from ASADA mention it over coffee??????? PLEASE

 

[Ambrosia]

Goddard came before the scandal broke. Chapman came after being delisted by Geelong in a trade for pick 84. If that's the best you can come up with ...

Edwards and Aylett. There's no evidence of players refusing to come to Essendon over the drug scandall

 

[morgoth]

Seriously someone from ASADA mention it over coffee??????? PLEASE

Came from a source at Essendon, not ASADA.

 

[Drezdyn]

I struggle to see what GWS get from this

Paddy is a great Ruck/Fwd, but his onfield performance has always been better when allowed to ruck for the bulk of a game. Mumford is their number 1 ruck. It strikes me that clubs like Brisbane and GWS would just end up with a selection question.
Suns, Port and Swans makes more sense.

Deal-wise, I think we will end up with a pick in the top 30 and a good player.

also a possibility of nothing.
no one knows. even predicting is futile at the moment. 19-odd months and all we have is murky waters.

True, the Giants do have Mumford, but he is quite injury prone. Jonathan Giles has expressed his intention to leave and their "Rucks in development" i.e. Phillips, Lobb and Downie are at least a couple of years away from being able to hold a senior ruck position consistently.

As all are well aware, the Giants occupy the bottom end of the ladder, but they really suck atm when they're missing an AFL standard ruckman. This was quite obvious earlier in the year when they lost winnable games when Mummy was injured (e.g. St kilda, bulldogs) or got thrashed (West coast, Richmond). In short, the Giants need an AFL quality ruckman as a backup for Mumford... it also allows them to rest Mumford a bit more. If Mumford gets injured next year, GWS season will be down the toilet.

If (and it's a big IF) Ryder does go to the Giants, I'm sure that they (the giants) will try to make it a win-win for both clubs. (they've got a good record with trading with clubs ... except the swans maybe. They did give you guys Aylett and Edwards for pick 47 or something, which they had no intention of using). We know Frost and Jaksch are available for trade, and Jono O'rourke could potentially be on the trade table. In addition there's a whole bunch of first rounders playing in our twos who are also potentially available.

 

[marty36]

Forgive me if I take no regard for listening to sources. It appears any person willing to put themselves out there and spread gossip would be treading on fairly thin ice. Especially at Essendon if Little found out anyone at Essendon was leaking info, cant imagine them being around the club too long. Do you honestly believe anyone would take that risk? In the early days of this saga yes, but to be leaking sensitive info ATM, no one is that stupid.

 

[Slax]

True, the Giants do have Mumford, but he is quite injury prone. Jonathan Giles has expressed his intention to leave and their "Rucks in development" i.e. Phillips, Lobb and Downie are at least a couple of years away from being able to hold a senior ruck position consistently.

As all are well aware, the Giants occupy the bottom end of the ladder, but they really suck atm when they're missing an AFL standard ruckman. This was quite obvious earlier in the year when they lost winnable games when Mummy was injured (e.g. St kilda, bulldogs) or got thrashed (West coast, Richmond). In short, the Giants need an AFL quality ruckman as a backup for Mumford... it also allows them to rest Mumford a bit more. If Mumford gets injured next year, GWS season will be down the toilet.

If (and it's a big IF) Ryder does go to the Giants, I'm sure that they (the giants) will try to make it a win-win for both clubs. (they've got a good record with trading with clubs ... except the swans maybe. They did give you guys Aylett and Edwards for pick 47 or something, which they had no intention of using). We know Frost and Jaksch are available for trade, and Jono O'rourke could potentially be on the trade table. In addition there's a whole bunch of first rounders playing in our twos who are also potentially available.

Ryder isn't backup for Mumford, Mumford would be backup for Ryder. If you get Ryder you're better off trading Mumford than keeping him.

The theory that you absolutely have to have a top ruckman to be a top side is garbage, look at Hawthorn.

 

[dlanod]

Ryder isn't backup for Mumford, Mumford would be backup for Ryder. If you get Ryder you're better off trading Mumford than keeping him.

The theory that you absolutely have to have a top ruckman to be a top side is garbage, look at Hawthorn.

Did you watch the Giants this year? I'm going with no, otherwise you wouldn't be questioning whether Mumford would make more of a difference to them than Ryder, and misunderstanding Drezdyn's point about the importance of a decent ruck to the Giants.

Mumford brings a massive body to stoppages that he throws around - something the Giants lack outside of Ward. Their other mids are young and skilled but none have bulked out enough to stick tackles consistently and help spill the ball if the opposition get first hands to it. Mumford had almost double the tackles per game than Ryder, and that's part of why he was a godsend to the Giants midfield.

Having a more passive but athletic ruck like a Giles (or a Ryder) is great for a more mature midfield but it's not what the Giants need at the moment, as shown by their worse results when Mumford was out.

 

[marty36]

Just a question, if Essendon play hard ball on trading Ryder, and he somehow manages to get out of his contract with Essendon through a technicality, wouldnt he go into the draft being that he doesnt become a FA for two years. Then would that mean the Saints get first crack forget what Ryder wants he is in the draft isnt he?

 

[markm106]

Just a question, if Essendon play hard ball on trading Ryder, and he somehow manages to get out of his contract with Essendon through a technicality, wouldnt he go into the draft being that he doesnt become a FA for two years. Then would that mean the Saints get first crack forget what Ryder wants he is in the draft isnt he?

I would think that would be the case. Although given the circumstances I think he would still end up at a non-Victorian club.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Just a question, if Essendon play hard ball on trading Ryder, and he somehow manages to get out of his contract with Essendon through a technicality, wouldnt he go into the draft being that he doesnt become a FA for two years. Then would that mean the Saints get first crack forget what Ryder wants he is in the draft isnt he?

He would then be a free agent (if he was able to get out of his contract through the breach of contract clause), he could then go to any club just like a normal free agent e.g. any players after 10 years but the bombers wouldn't get any compensation.

 

[citizen-erased]

True, the Giants do have Mumford, but he is quite injury prone. Jonathan Giles has expressed his intention to leave and their "Rucks in development" i.e. Phillips, Lobb and Downie are at least a couple of years away from being able to hold a senior ruck position consistently.

As all are well aware, the Giants occupy the bottom end of the ladder, but they really suck atm when they're missing an AFL standard ruckman. This was quite obvious earlier in the year when they lost winnable games when Mummy was injured (e.g. St kilda, bulldogs) or got thrashed (West coast, Richmond). In short, the Giants need an AFL quality ruckman as a backup for Mumford... it also allows them to rest Mumford a bit more. If Mumford gets injured next year, GWS season will be down the toilet.

If (and it's a big IF) Ryder does go to the Giants, I'm sure that they (the giants) will try to make it a win-win for both clubs. (they've got a good record with trading with clubs ... except the swans maybe. They did give you guys Aylett and Edwards for pick 47 or something, which they had no intention of using). We know Frost and Jaksch are available for trade, and Jono O'rourke could potentially be on the trade table. In addition there's a whole bunch of first rounders playing in our twos who are also potentially available.

True on Mumford and I didn't think of it that way.
Would be a good combo actually.

Giants first pick probably wouldn't be on the table.
For me, if we deal with GWS, id be looking at one of their forwards (Tomlinson, Boyd or even Cameron if the come home factor is strong enough)
We have a fair amount of mid-depth coming through that is struggling to break into an already crowded lineup.
I don't think we'd say no to a star like Shiel, but another kid when we already have J.Merrett, Kavanagh, Aylett, Edwards, etc coming through wouldn't be high on our list

 

[marty36]

He would then be a free agent (if he was able to get out of his contract through the breach of contract clause), he could then go to any club just like a normal free agent e.g. any players after 10 years but the bombers wouldn't get any compensation.

This article states he isnt a free agent for another 2 Years, who is correct you or this journalist?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...065847098?nk=a8d10ffaf57c57ab53fe194beeb8774a

 

[Hollow Knight]

This article states he isnt a free agent for another 2 Years, who is correct you or this journalist?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...065847098?nk=a8d10ffaf57c57ab53fe194beeb8774a

They are both correct.

Can't be a free agent when you are contracted. Ryder played his 8th year in 2013 so is now a free agent next time he is out of contract, so that would be end of 2016.

However, IF (and it is unlikely) the "cause clause" is utilised and legally cleared, he would be a "delisted free agent" straight away.

 

[markm106]

Mumford is quiet injury prone however if he was to remain mostly injury free Ryder would be playing second fidle. He would be good in tandem with Mumford however GWS have several good young key forwards. So a trade would likely involve one of them.

 

[Wild Bill]

This article states he isnt a free agent for another 2 Years, who is correct you or this journalist?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...065847098?nk=a8d10ffaf57c57ab53fe194beeb8774a

He can become a delisted free agency via the get out of jail free card he might play.

 

[marty36]

He can become a delisted free agency via the get out of jail free card he might play.

If he uses the clause, wouldnt he then be admitting a guilty plea to do so and banned anyway. I suppose he is in no win situation, doubt he will use any clause and be kept at Essendon if a trade cant be manufactured.

 

[Slax]

True on Mumford and I didn't think of it that way.
Would be a good combo actually.

Giants first pick probably wouldn't be on the table.
For me, if we deal with GWS, id be looking at one of their forwards (Tomlinson, Boyd or even Cameron if the come home factor is strong enough)
We have a fair amount of mid-depth coming through that is struggling to break into an already crowded lineup.
I don't think we'd say no to a star like Shiel, but another kid when we already have J.Merrett, Kavanagh, Aylett, Edwards, etc coming through wouldn't be high on our list

If you think it would be a good combo then where to do put the them whilst not in the ruck? Both play their best footy as stand alone rucks, with Ryder also ble to go forward. The forward option doesn't exists when you already have Boyd, Cameron & Patton in the side. Quite simply Ryder and Mumford won't fit into the same side given the depth of talls that GWS has already in their forward line.

As for the idea you would get any of Tomlinson, Boyd or Cameron for Ryder is laughable, you'll need to throw someone else from your starting 18 into the mix for GWS to even talk with you over that deal.

 

[morgoth]

Forgive me if I take no regard for listening to sources. It appears any person willing to put themselves out there and spread gossip would be treading on fairly thin ice. Especially at Essendon if Little found out anyone at Essendon was leaking info, cant imagine them being around the club too long. Do you honestly believe anyone would take that risk? In the early days of this saga yes, but to be leaking sensitive info ATM, no one is that stupid.

This whole board is one big 'source', no one knows anything.

And if you don't think people leak, you know absolutely nothing. Go ask them over on the ASADA board what my 'sources' have been like. I guess ignorance is bliss.

 

[Eons]

This whole board is one big 'source', no one knows anything.

And if you don't think people leak, you know absolutely nothing. Go ask them over on the ASADA board what my 'sources' have been like. I guess ignorance is bliss.

People leak things all the time. Especially older people, they even have adult diapers for this type of problem.