Other Roethlisberger Rape Allegations and Aftermath

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

Roethlisberger jagged his first SB win, he did nothing. He won his 2nd. But his star goes downhill from here thru his career.

If Jim Plunkett STILL is the only 2 time SB-winning QB not to be in the HOF, then Roethlisberger wont get there before him. Travesty that Plunkett isnt.

 

[Burningleviathan]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

Michael Irvin did.

He never raped anyone. The girl involved in that admitted in a court of law that she made it up and ended up serving time for it.

Big Ben will make the hall of fame due to the passing of time from this incident till his career being over and his admission. Short of doing time and actually being convicted, he'll make his way in.

 

[DB10]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

He never raped anyone. The girl involved in that admitted in a court of law that she made it up and ended up serving time for it.

Irvin still has a litany of arrests against his name - if that didn't stop him getting into the hall of fame for his playing achievements, it won't stop Roethlisberger at this stage, is what I was meaning. Unless ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/16/ben-roethlisberger-accuse_n_540442.html

But wait, there's more?

PFT speaks of a trade with Buffalo. They've got pick 9 and would probably take Clausen if he's there, we know they're in the market for a quarterback.

 

[Woodson]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

Roethlisberger jagged his first SB win, he did nothing. He won his 2nd. But his star goes downhill from here thru his career.

If Jim Plunkett STILL is the only 2 time SB-winning QB not to be in the HOF, then Roethlisberger wont get there before him. Travesty that Plunkett isnt.

Having fun, GG? Let it be known that Big Ben was primary responsible for getting the Steelers to XL Supabah and Jerome Bettis didn't have 'Huge' Supabah XL numbers either.

Good point by DB10 about Michael Irvin. I've already let the prediction slip to others so I might as well let you all know...

CRYSTAL BALL PREDICTION: If Big Ben doesn't return the Steelers to the Big Dance within the next couple years, don't be surprised if the Rooney's put him up for trade and and I expect the success starved COWBOYS to pounce!

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

What kind of an organization are the Steelers running. This is the Steelers of "rooneys rule" fame, and yet they quickly dispense of a WR with off-field issues, but are still holding onto this QB and his litany of off-field disgraces.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

This is only gonna end up getting worse now for Roethlisberger, the Steelers forced to trade him and the NFL to discipline him...

Video in NFL.com link...
Pennsylvania Trooper acting as Ben's Bodyguard under Investigation

A Pennsylvania state trooper who was with Ben Roethlisberger the night he was accused of sexually assaulting a 20-year-old female college student in a Georgia nightclub is subject to the agency's code of conduct even though he was working for the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback, police said Friday.

An ongoing internal investigation will determine whether Trooper Ed Joyner did anything "that could reasonably be expected to destroy public respect for the Pennsylvania State Police or confidence in the state police," said Lt. Myra Taylor, a state police spokeswoman.

A friend of the accuser said in a statement to Milledgeville, Ga., police that a "bodyguard" refused to acknowledge that the woman, who had been drinking, was alone with Roethlisberger in the back of a nightclub.

Ann Marie Lubatti told police on March 5 that she told the bodyguard, "This isn't right. My friend is back there with Ben. She needs to come back right now."

Lubatti said the bodyguard wouldn't look her in the eye and said he didn't know what she was talking about. Georgia investigators later identified that man as Joyner.

Taylor said Joyner had permission from the state police to work off-duty for Roethlisberger since 2005, with his duties including answering phones and fan mail, as well as driving and accompanying the quarterback to charitable events. Joyner's request to work for Roethlisberger doesn't include the term "bodyguard," nor is there any reference made to personal protection or similar duties, Taylor said.

A reporter who called Joyner's barracks Friday was referred to Taylor for comment. The Associated Press couldn't immediately confirm the trooper's home phone number.

Roethlisberger's accuser said in a March 5 statement that the quarterback had sex with her after she was led by another bodyguard -- identified by Georgia investigators as Coraopolis, Pa., police officer Anthony Barravecchio -- to an isolated area in the club.

"Meanwhile, his bodyguards told my friends they couldn't pass them to get to me," she wrote in a statement the night of the incident.

Georgia officials announced earlier this week that Roethlisberger wouldn't be charged in the case.

Michael Santicola, Barravecchio's attorney, said Friday that his client "did nothing immoral, nothing unethical and nothing illegal. And any statements made by drunken college girls otherwise is incorrect."

In interviews with Georgia investigators, witnesses repeatedly described Joyner and Barravecchio as Roethlisberger's "bodyguards." The statements were among hundreds of pages of the investigative files made public by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation on Thursday.

Santicola said Barravecchio used to work as Roethlisberger's "personal assistant" but doesn't anymore. Santicola said he didn't know whether Barravecchio paid his own way on the trip but said he was "absolutely not" employed as Roethlisberger's bodyguard at the club.

Roger Goodell issued a memo to all clubs last Wednesday, stressing to all parties the importance of the league's personal-conduct policy. More ...

Coraopolis police chief Alan DeRusso said Barravecchio is a friend of Roethlisberger's and was on vacation when he went with the quarterback to Georgia. The officer isn't suspended or under any kind of internal department investigation and remains on the schedule full-time, the chief said.

"The Georgia Bureau of Investigation has contacted me, and as far as I was told from them, they needed nothing from me and they needed nothing from him," DeRusso said.

DeRusso said his department doesn't regulate outside work by officers.

Thomas Martinelli, a Michigan attorney and expert witness on police misconduct, said departmental policies on outside work vary widely. He said it's a bad idea to let officers work as bodyguards while off duty because they could be injured or open their departments to liability for their actions.

Outside job policies aside, most departments rely on the code of ethics of the International Association of Chiefs of Police. "In there, it says, 'I will keep my private life unsullied as an example to all,'" Martinelli said.

Referring specifically to the Roethlisberger situation, Martinelli said a police agency might well question the presence of officers that night.

"Could one make an ethical argument that these officers should have extricated themselves from this situation before it escalated?" Martinelli said. "You could make that argument on behalf of an agency."

The incident already has cost one Georgia officer his job. Sgt. Jerry Blash, who took the first report from Roethlisberger's accuser, resigned Wednesday, Milledgeville police chief Woodrow Blue confirmed Friday.

Blash, the only officer who interviewed Roethlisberger, acknowledged in an interview with investigators that he made some derogatory comments about the alleged victim to other officers.

Multiple calls to a number listed for Blash rang unanswered.

It also was revealed Thursday that Georgia investigators sought to question another woman about separate incidents reportedly involving Roethlisberger.

GBI documents show that after the most recent accusation surfaced, a 16-year-old in a youth law-enforcement program told authorities he knew about incidents involving Roethlisberger and a friend's sister. Authorities repeatedly sought to interview the woman, who's in her early 20s, but she declined.

The teen had said he believed Roethlisberger twice made unwanted sexual advances toward the woman.

A message seeking comment about the possible earlier incidents were left with Roethlisberger's lawyer.

 

[Woodson]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

What kind of an organization are the Steelers running. This is the Steelers of "rooneys rule" fame, and yet they quickly dispense of a WR with off-field issues, but are still holding onto this QB and his litany of off-field disgraces.

I have no doubt that had he been charged by the DA, the Rooney's would of acted immediately upon that decision. You have to wonder how much can be taken as half truths and full on BS by the stories told. Painting Big Ben into a corner is what has become of this case atm. I have no doubt this will ALL BLOW OVER when he gets his head right and starts delivering on his promise and giving something back to the Steelers organisation. As if the accuser is a sweet angel anyway. But I'm not condoning what Big Ben has done or believed to have done going on the innuendo of the media's negative write up, still the investigation has come up with no charges . When all is said and done, it's up to the Steelers to regroup and move on.

As I've said, the pressure on Roethlisberger is building. I can't see the Rooney's shelling out his bonus $$$$ if he can't lead the Steelers back to the Big Dance within the next two seasons. On the flipside, Big Ben can have his chance to paying back the faith by keeping his nose clean and keeping up his form = wins that eventually produce a Seventh Lombardi for the Rooney's.

 

[Burningleviathan]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

still the investigation has come up with no charges .

That's because the girl and her family decided to not go ahead with them due to the constant media pressure, and well,

As if the accuser is a sweet angel anyway. ,

Attitudes like this making any trial a trial on her morality rather then what occurred.

The whole cops as body guards and being the one doing the interviews is just rotten.

Weather he did it or not, i dunno, but when other players have been suspended due to allegations rather then actual convictions, i makes you wonder what is taking the NFL so long.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

when other players have been suspended due to allegations rather then actual convictions, it makes you wonder what is taking the NFL (and steelers) so long.

Excellent comment.

Mind you, it's also partly due to value----Cable with all his woman-beating accusations, an organization hypocritical keeping him on because players plead for continuity, they like him, organization cant keep bleeding with multiple coaching changes. Same with Rapelisberger. Holmes is "just a WR", but a proven franchise QB and SB-winner, an organization tries to cover stuff up, tries to find ways to "sort it out", doesnt just trade him for a 5th. That's one reason, and the hypocrisy is there.

However, BB's reputation is gonna get slammed even more over the coming weeks/months, and he has a real problem too, serial offender. On Raiders blogs right now, many writers like Lombardi etc are saying Raiders should give up their #8 for BB, but many others and fans are saying "NO" because the risk is way too big....he'll get suspended for 4 games, say, then as further allegations come up, he'll get like a year off, plus all the private pressure will have him lose his star.

A Raider reader said something good too, in reply to another who was going on about "Raider renegades" of the past...

This saying has gotten out of hand…The rebel types of back in the day were called that because they were outspoken and didn’t subscribe to the 1950’s mentality of the old guard of the NFL. They had chips on their shoulders and took it out on the football fields.


The psuedo-rebels of today are a bunch of punks that have always had things handed to them b/c of their ability to play ball. They are mentally weak and don’t have the heart to go all out on the field.


Ben is a punk and has no place on this team. The so-called “criminal element” of the old Raiders would make him their lil’ hoe.

Raider fan sentiments...

Big Ben with a clean slate is worth a 1st and 3rd but Ben the rapist is a HUGE risk. It’s obvious this guy has serious issues with forcing women to what he wants when he wants it. It’s bound to rear it’s ugly head again because he’s in denial that he has a problem.
Who knows the 3rd accuser is already setting him up for a fall. He’s way too dangerous to give away the store. If you watch that discourse with no one there to support him. He is definitely in denial. It’s just a matter of time.

as much as i want my team to win…
i do not want that evil SOB… Roethlisberger on my team…

Look, I say all the time where there is smoke there is fire.
But the man has never been charged with a crime. Stupidity, absolutely, guily as charged.
But I don’t get this, next offense he will be suspended for a year talk. How many times did Pac-Man actually get charged with crimes, whether he was found guilty or not or pled to lesser charges like he did here in Vegas, before he finally got a year suspension?
I think Ben has a little more rope to hang himself with before he faces a season-long suspension.

On the flip-side, some posters have brought this up to...

I meant to say what players have been suspended without being CHARGED of a crime.
Obviously players have been suspended without convictions, my bad in #49, but they at least saw the court room.
To this day, Ben has not.

Here you go:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...layer-disciplined-for-conduct-without-arrest/
Key line, “To date, the NFL has never suspended under the Personal Conduct Policy a player who has not been arrested”
Ben = Zero arrests.

“Still, the league will be breaking new ground if Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is suspended for one or more games under the Personal Conduct Policy.”
-per pft
*************************************
If Ben gets suspended, I am claiming racism on the white man.

Then more flip-side...

he hasn’t been charged with a crime because he’s being protected by everyone. Two women don’t come out of the blue and make accusations such as these because it happened in a dream. We all know he’s doing something. Now sooner or later he’s going to strike again when all things die down. The prosecutor basically said he was disgusted by the guy. He wished he had enough to charge him with. The girl waited to long and they were able to cover up evidence.
Women all over this country are going to attack the guy, his own fans are attacking him. If Pittsburgh gets the right ffer they’re going to move him. Trust me.

why isnt big ben getting ridiculed all over tv and radio? tiger cheats on his wife and look how enamored everyone is about that. big ben is accused of rape 3 times in less than a year and no outrage. stop actin like race never plays a part in this. i am huge big ben fan but this makes me wonder about dude. who knows what other things he has done. ill take a pass.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

Another good point...

The teams and the league office has some of the best investigators around working for them (including former FBI and CIA). I’m sure they know the full extent of the dirt this guy has been doing and that’s why Rooney is pissed.

Just like Al knows about Jamarcus liking the Sizzurp, Rooney knows about Ben’s strong arm loving.

By the way, with Rooney being an appointed ambassador, it’s a political thing now. I’m sure Rooney is getting pressured

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

Some side points made for food for thought...

Tiger cheated on his wife and he gets reamed like he just raped a bunch of women and treated like a scum of the earth by the media.

Ben is accused of rape 3 times now. All the stories seem to be similar. Ben got off the latest one due to a “technicality” as well because the girl was drunk. If you read her report that nite and the following moring, it seems to be in the same line.

To me, I have yet to see Ben being treated the same way Tiger was/is and Cable was by the media. Why? IMO, he is a SB winning QB and he is white knight.

There isn’t a precedent by the NFL suspending non-convicted allegations…that much you are RIGHT about.

But others are also right that there’s always an underbelly going on. They get the scrutiny much more and organizations perhaps dont try to cover stuff up or protect them as much etc. It’s always there in little ways…in life and football, DESPITE much effort and majority of the NFL/people NOT being racists and abhor it.

It’s the same with Sexism and women.
Women-power has been growing and growing, you see it in ads too how much they paint the guy as stupid and the woman as smart etc.
And despite women really ascending in modern times to big power players and corporates, there’s always STILL sexism on women per se. Still harder for them to earn respect or equality among men here and there. Look at also all the cops and their “bytch” talk in relation to those girls, and how in these cases there’s always this “dont pretend the girls are angels” talk, trying to deflect the focus, in court cases always the girl’s sexuality and ‘morality’ dissected to clear the defendant’s abhorrent behavior.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

Two going at it still...

Agents told of other woman’s encounters with pantsless NFL star
APRIL 16–While probing a Georgia college student’s claim that she was sexually assaulted last month by Ben Roethlisberger, investigators were told of previous incidents during which the NFL star allegedly pulled down his pants in front of a young woman and forcefully put his hand up her skirt, The Smoking Gun has learned.

But when contacted by a Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) agent, the woman, after consulting with her parents, declined to be interviewed because she was “very worried about her name getting out to the media and on the Internet.”

Ten days after a 20-year-old sorority sister reported being raped by Roethlisberger, 28, in the bathroom of a Milledgeville nightclub, the GBI learned of the alleged prior encounters from a member of the Milledgeville Police Department’s Youth Explorer Program. The source, Linc Boyer, apparently passed on information provided to him by a sibling of the woman involved in the previous incidents.

As detailed in the below GBI report, the woman “is 21 or 22 years old” and worked at the Great Waters golf course, which is near Roethlisberger’s retreat on Lake Oconee. On one occasion, the woman, acting as a designated driver, drove Roethlisberger home from a party. After helping the inebriated athlete to his bedroom, Roethlisberger allegedly would not let her leave. The woman “was able to get to the front door of the house, but Roethlisberger slammed the door.” He then allegedly pulled down his pants and told the woman “she could do whatever she wants.”

A week after the incident (the date of which is not specified in GBI documents), Roethlisberger invited the woman to a party at his home. While there, she “ended up in Roethlisberger’s bedroom,” where the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback reportedly wanted to show her a new bed. After asking her to lie down, Roethlisberger “was allegedly forceful” with the woman and “put his hand up [her] skirt.” After pushing Roethlisberger’s hand away, the woman went to leave the home, which angered the football star. The woman then “went home and told her father, but her father chose not to pursue the issue.”

When GBI agent Monica Ling first called the woman’s home last month in reference to a case she was working, the woman’s mother “advised that if the case is in reference to Ben Roethlisberger,” her daughter “does not want to get involved.” The woman, whose name was redacted from GBI documents released in response to a TSG open records request, later told Ling that she was “very concerned about her name getting out to the media.”

During a March 16 telephone call, the woman told Ling that she had spoken with her parents and decided against being interviewed by GBI or other law enforcement officials. The woman, Ling reported, “did not think that she wanted to be involved at this point.”

reply....

First, let me say that I think Ben screwed drunk girls, which I think is wrong and worthy of arrest if they honestly didn’t want to have sex with him. It’s important to know that before I proceed.

Okay, the fact that he has been accused more than once doesn’t mean that he actually DID anything wrong. If you were a chick who wanted to cash in with a civil suit, you wouldn’t accuse someone with a pristine reputation… you’d accuse someone who people will assume actually DID it… someone who has been accused before… someone who likes to drink and party.

I’m not saying that the chicks are lying, I’m just saying that it’s entirely possible that they are. I know for a FACT that there is a civil suit. The fact that there was a civil suit filed before the DA even announced that the criminal charges wouldn’t be filed speaks VOLUMES. She filed a civil suit (which is ALL ABOUT MONEY) before even knowing if the criminal charges would be filed. That SCREAMS that she’s all about making a buck from this. Again, I believe that he had sex with drunk girls, but I also believe that the girls got drunk with him because he’s a superstar… and we all know that women want superstar dick. It’s just like with Kobe… that chick got off work at the hotel and went up to his room at 2am. Why? She wanted superstar dick. There’s no other reason for her to have gone there after work at 2am. She even ADMITTED that she went up there to have sex with Kobe… the rape accusation was because he stuck it in her ass without asking. I believe that the same goes for Ben… they wanted superstar dick, then figured crying rape would get them some of the superstar’s money. Ben has made horrible decisions and MIGHT be a rapist… but to crucify him in the media or even consider suspending him based on ALLEGATIONS is wrong… no matter what color he is. Tiger got vilified not because he’s black, but because he ADMITTED wrongdoing. If Ben admits wrongdoing or is suspended, he will be torn to shreds… believe it.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

....

The funny thing is you’re both right.

One is focusing on how the media and perception treats cases. While the other is focusing on the women themselves…a common angle taken to deflect away from the accuser and place blame on the girl.

Girls do get themselves into hairy situations, with a lot of these rape accusations they went there on their own will, etc. But there’s always still a legal and moral line that crosses over to forced sex, unwanted anal penetration, finding themselves in a room full of guys and gang-banged tho not what they came there for, or taken advantage of when a little drunk, and the MANNER too which a lot of guys treat women in this situations is abhorrent where they completely mistreat them, abuse them, multiple partners, etc.

You have to look at it from a girl’s pov too, even a groupie. Just because they have stars in their eyes, doesn’t mean they want to be treated as scum alley whores. The superstar athlete so high on himself abusing/mistreating women in his care.

That’s where the law imo fails in protecting women in all these decades of rape cases.

But that’s another debate that can be debated. I think the point was more the way the media and organizations/corporates handle black accuser and white accuser. There’s underbelly there that seeks to protect one more than the other. And sometimes DUE TO POLITICAL PRESSURE AND HYPOCRISY, the black guy gets protected and the white vilified. With Roethlisberger imo you’ll see where politics will come into it more and more the more inactivity and fan outrage at how he’s being protected occurs.

 

[Wizard]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

For those following this closely, any truth to the rumours he "MIGHT" be on his way to Arizona?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

I havent heard that yet, but im sure there's truth to it. Given the Steeler-connections in Arizona.

 

[apex]

woah .. i go for a few hours and the BB topic has moved into a thread of its own :O

 

[Exe Gesis]

Better to keep it in one place and focus the other thread on tidbits of info.

 

[DB10]

Even if he gets traded there's no way he gets away with no suspension. This is horror press for the league.

It could be like Tiger Woods but worse. Tiger may have had affairs with over a dozen women, but he didn't take advantage of young drunk girls.

 

[Woodson]

Re: 2010 Off-Season: Free Agency, Trades, Rumors, Confirmed News

That's because the girl and her family decided to not go ahead with them due to the constant media pressure, and well,

........
Attitudes like this making any trial a trial on her morality rather then what occurred.

The whole cops as body guards and being the one doing the interviews is just rotten.

Weather he did it or not, i dunno, but when other players have been suspended due to allegations rather then actual convictions, i makes you wonder what is taking the NFL so long.

One of the cops has resigned.. maybe the guilt is burning deep him inside.
(so it should!!).

I don't think for a second that I have/ adopt the attitude of how a female 'deserves to get what she deserves' when she chooses to get intoxicated and look for some bathroom action but all I'm saying is stuff like this happens from immature people who are BORED and want to spice up their evening. I just see that 'consensual situations' for a female in particular pose a greater risk and can't be excused for her for being naive and intoxicated, let alone on the premises unlawfully, she is just as guilty of promoting such behaviour. Not saying that the 'intoxicated guys' have the right to impose...it just happens that way... unfortunately.

Takes two to tango...intoxicated or not. How BB is not charged just underlines how much truth is evident by the accuser changing her story one time too many. The media beat up isn't doing Big Ben alot of favours, that's for sure.

 

[GeeCats07]

[YOUTUBE]pTdzpKN4u2s[/YOUTUBE]

BB obviously believes as the dad in Airplane 2 does.

In all seriousness though, he is clearly a piece of s**t to go around doing what he does to women. What are the chances that he eventually comes out with an excuse of a alcohol problem? Fairly high I would imagine.

Woodson, if you were going to trade him what would you be happy with? Number 1 pick so you can draft Bradford?

 

[Woodson]

Woodson, if you were going to trade him what would you be happy with? Number 1 pick so you can draft Bradford?

Short answer: HELL YEAH!! But who says that the Rams, Chiefs & Seahawks will be DUMB & DESPERATE enough to give up their #1 pick for a 'Tainted QB' ??? That's the burning question that needs to be asked.

 

[DB10]

What about pick 9? Buffalo would trade it, they're probably going to take Clausen anyway.

 

[larkis]

Lowest Clausen will go is 7, no one is going to let a potential franchise QB slip too far.

 

[Woodson]

What about pick 9? Buffalo would trade it, they're probably going to take Clausen anyway.

I'd rather the Steelers hold tight with Big Ben regardless how much shame he has bought it upon himself. The Rooney's have had issues with players in the past ('70's) and have backed them in so I hope that the 'blessing' of Big Ben not being charged will give the Rooney's something to re-consider (against trading) as quality QB that have size & strength aren't a dime o' dozen in the NFL. WR's are far more that type of dime o' dozen player moreso. This saga will blow over and once Big Ben gets his 'onfield mojo' up and going then all will be forgiven I'd say. I'm quite sure all of us have done plenty thing regretful when we're been plastered. I know I have and I'm not willing to discuss it either. So who Am I to judge Big Ben? Let alone other alcoholics in denial ?

 

[apex]

Lowest Clausen will go is 7, no one is going to let a potential franchise QB slip too far.

He has a chance of slipping to the lower end of the first round (think Aaron Rodgers, Brady Quinn - although Quinn didn't really pan out)

Really depends on what happens between now and draft day .. the only real team that may draft a QB in the first round are Oakland, Cleveland and Buffalo .. if Cleveland gives him a miss and goes and takes Berry or Haden, he falls to the Raiders, if the Raiders end up taking someone like the left over of Haden/Berry then he falls to Buffalo, if Buffalo doesn't select him, it means they have traded for a QB (Campbell?) then you got the Jacksonville, Broncos, Dolphins, San Fran, Seattle, NY Giants, Tennessee, San Fran, Steelers, Atlanta .. you get my drift..

none of those teams have a real need at QB except San Fran, not to sure what they think of Smith, because I'm not a niner's fan, but if they don't think highly of Smith, they may go QB, if they think Smith can get it done, well Clausen falls .. its because those teams don't need a QB as much as they need help in other positions.