Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[Max zero]

This is exactly why I hate 457 visas.

You like your Thai food right? Someone has to cook it.

 

[Maggie5]

You like your Thai food right? Someone has to cook it.

Skills shortage in Australia - unemployment 6%
Economic illegal immigrants rorting the system via 457 visa.
For every person a company brings in on a 457 visa, they should employ a trainee or apprentice so that we don't have this skills shortage in the future.

 

[Max zero]

Skills shortage in Australia - unemployment 6%
Economic illegal immigrants rorting the system via 457 visa.
For every person a company brings in on a 457 visa, they should employ a trainee or apprentice so that we don't have this skills shortage in the future.

Yeah but what if not enough people want to be an asian chef? Or don't want to move to another location? Or can't afford to live on apprentice wages? Or the business needs an experienced chef rather then a trainee?

 

[Maggie5]

Yeah but what if not enough people want to be an asian chef? Or don't want to move to another location? Or can't afford to live on apprentice wages? Or the business needs an experienced chef rather then a trainee?

I see your point but don't agree, there are heaps of young people that want to be a chef especially in light of all the cooking shows.
But my real point is, that if there is a genuine shortage and they do use someone on a 457 visa, then lets use that person to skill up an Australian at the same time. Win. Win.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Skills shortage in Australia - unemployment 6%
Economic illegal immigrants rorting the system via 457 visa.
For every person a company brings in on a 457 visa, they should employ a trainee or apprentice so that we don't have this skills shortage in the future.

Agree completely. It would take only a week or two to train a school leaver how to cook Thai food. 457 visas are often used as a rort to get economic immigrants into the country, or for companies to hire overseas workers on low rates.

 

[slicedndiced]

I can't compete with that bro but I did do 17 years shearing around WA and NZ and have a vague idea whats happening out in the bush.

two cockroaches mating??? Never really thought about it all that much.... I saw two goats ******* in the market place in Spain that kept me entertained for 10 minutes.

Exactly.

Maybe you should learn to shear.

 

[crackerjack4X4]

Been there, done that.

 

[Maggie5]

Agree completely. It would take only a week or two to train a school leaver how to cook Thai food. 457 visas are often used as a rort to get economic immigrants into the country, or for companies to hire overseas workers on low rates.

Good to see that there are some things we can agree on. 457 visas have been a real issue for me especially since this government changed the rules when they come into power to make it easier with very little restrictions.

 

[slicedndiced]

Been there, done that.

And ran away because it was too hard.

Typical.

And now you feel qualified to comment.

 

[Max zero]

I see your point but don't agree, there are heaps of young people that want to be a chef especially in light of all the cooking shows.
But my real point is, that if there is a genuine shortage and they do use someone on a 457 visa, then lets use that person to skill up an Australian at the same time. Win. Win.

Who is to say they don't? Is there a real untapped market of of young people wanting to be asian chefs? 457 visa workers cost the company more then a local worker. Why wouldn't they try if they were able too?

Is there a large youth demand for apprentice and trainee positions? Young people seem more keen to go to university.

 

[Maggie5]

Who is to say they don't? Is there a real untapped market of of young people wanting to be asian chefs? 457 visa workers cost the company more then a local worker. Why wouldn't they try if they were able too?

Saying it should be condition, especially in trade, hospitality and like areas.
Friend was in hotels and was always looking for apprentices in the kitchen, was inundated.

 

[crackerjack4X4]

And ran away because it was too hard.

Typical.

And now you feel qualified to comment.

Oh come on Bushie, you are better than that.

Your rural fantasy of sending a squillion AS out bush is just nonsense.

 

[Max zero]

Saying it should be condition, especially in trade, hospitality and like areas.
Friend was in hotels and was always looking for apprentices in the kitchen, was inundated.

Isn't it already a condition?

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam.../pubs/rp/rp1314/QG/Subclass457Visa#_Employers

Businesses must make a commitment to meet the prescribed training benchmarks for the program, which require an ongoing commitment to training activities for Australian citizens and permanent residents, and that at least 75 per cent of their workforce are Australian residents or citizens. Employers must attest to having a strong record of, or commitment to, employing local labour and non-discriminatory employment practices. Employers must pay employees a rate equivalent to comparable local wages, and must not underpay their employees or deduct money without the employee’s consent for such purposes as rent or board.

How you police it is another matter but it is already a requirement.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Good to see that there are some things we can agree on. 457 visas have been a real issue for me especially since this government changed the rules when they come into power to make it easier with very little restrictions.

Gillard relaxed the rules also. It's nonsense from both major parties. I've got 3 kids in high school and it makes you wonder how they will get a start if employers can hire cheap overseas workers rather than invest in training for young people.

 

[slicedndiced]

Oh come on Bushie, you are better than that.

Your rural fantasy of sending a squillion AS out bush is just nonsense.

Again, you fail when you reach that far.

Where did I mention numbers that were clearly delusional?

I am talking about reinvigorating the bush with people who are desperate to get ahead in life.

Or would you prefer to see rural Australia being further marginalised and continue to die like a dog with a bait?

 

[Maggie5]

Isn't it already a condition?

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam.../pubs/rp/rp1314/QG/Subclass457Visa#_Employers



How you police it is another matter but it is already a requirement.

Not enforced to my understanding, however I think that given there is government subsidies to employ apprentices/trainees, should show evidence of it happening at the same time when employing someone on 457 visa.
Too easy now with the government changes and not enough policing.

 

[Maggie5]

Gillard relaxed the rules also. It's nonsense from both major parties. I've got 3 kids in high school and it makes you wonder how they will get a start if employers can hire cheap overseas workers rather than invest in training for young people.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/10/29/unions-warn-against-457-visa-changes
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...57-visa-loophole-reopened-20140311-34kgr.html
Without making this a Labor/Lib thing, the previous government thought companies/employers were taking advantage of the system and made changes in July 2013. This government has made two changes that has made it easier.
I really feel for you and understand, it seems that unless kids want to go to Uni, options for traineeships and apprenticeships are diminishing.
Actually one thing I will say about the Howard government they really poured a lot of money into this area.

 

[Max zero]

Not enforced to my understanding, however I think that given there is government subsidies to employ apprentices/trainees, should show evidence of it happening at the same time when employing someone on 457 visa.
Too easy now with the government changes and not enough policing.

So some sort of quota or ratio systems to use 457 visas? It would seem to be a bit cumbersome to expect a business to have to need to hire a minimum of two workers (one local one 457) to be able to fill vacancies.

 

[Maggie5]

So some sort of quota or ratio systems to use 457 visas? It would seem to be a bit cumbersome to expect a business to have to need to hire a minimum of two workers (one local one 457) to be able to fill vacancies.

Not necessarily, wages for the areas I gave are below minimum and generally attract government funding.

 

[Max zero]

Not necessarily, wages for the areas I gave are below minimum and generally attract government funding.

Say for example you are a small resturant and you head chef just left and you need to find an experienced replacement. If you can't one one locally what do you do? Do you hire a trainee local chef (to fulfil the rule) even though you don't need one so you can bring in an experienced one on a 457 visa?

 

[Maggie5]

Say for example you are a small resturant and you head chef just left and you need to find an experienced replacement. If you can't one one locally what do you do? Do you hire a trainee local chef (to fulfil the rule) even though you don't need one so you can bring in an experienced one on a 457 visa?

Why not? I should add though that I don't believe that a chef is that impossible to find in Australia.
A good chef should be able to cook almost any type of food from a cook-book.

 

[Alexa95]

Why not? I should add though that I don't believe that a chef is that impossible to find in Australia.
A good chef should be able to cook almost any type of food from a cook-book.

It is in certain food types. People pick a French restaurants or Thai restaurants for the foreign food. Tell me that an Australian chef can completely match the quality of food and understand the subtleties that the native chef can. Farfetched view.

 

[midorigreenwood]

I think the whole refugee to regions is kinda irrelvant. If the system could be made to work I have no problem with it.

The core issue has never been with how many refugees we accept but what happens once we reach that limit (whatever that may be).

The issues we have now are not due to how many refugees we are talking but the fact we are putting a limit on it. Now unless you suggest we remove all limits at some point, whether it be 20,000, 40,000 or 60,000 we are going to reach a cap and start saying no.

What happens when we do start saying no and how do we enforce it?

These placement programs simply delay reaching this point not preventing it.

Also the cap whether its 10000 or 60000 is budgeted for.

When that limit is reached inevitably governments whether Labor or Liberal simply cannibalise from other areas to make the numbers work. See the foreign aid budget and other social services being slashed. Services for 10 thousand refugees have to be stretched to cater for thousands more than expected. English lessons for 10 weeks now becomes 8 weeks.

Refugee advocates would have better luck convincing the public if they would work out a quota that they can live with and get some number crunchers to work out how much it would cost to integrate them into australian society. Education, Health, housing, language, job skills training etc.

If its 100k refugees a year ....fair enough. Then we can have an honest debate taking into account other priorities like the NDIS, Education reform, Climate change action etc.

Instead they're too focused on grandstanding and appealing to emotion than any real action.

 

[slicedndiced]

It is in certain food types. People pick a French restaurants or Thai restaurants for the foreign food. Tell me that an Australian chef can completely match the quality of food and understand the subtleties that the native chef can. Farfetched view.

Ohh piiiiiiisss off.

Foreign cuisine is hardly the lone domain of foreign chefs and vice versa.

Kylie Kwong has been at the forefront of introducing Australian indigenous ingredients into mainstream menus.

That may be a little difficult for you to comprehend, but the thinkers will get it.

 

[Juddism]

Ohh piiiiiiisss off.

Foreign cuisine is hardly the lone domain of foreign chefs and vice versa.

Kylie Kwong has been at the forefront of introducing Australian indigenous ingredients into mainstream menus.

That may be a little difficult for you to comprehend, but the thinkers will get it.

Chinese doing Japanese is not the same...never has, and never will.