Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[Malifice]

I often wonder whether Australia bashers ever ponder what would have happened when the French, Spanish or Portuguese decided they wanted Terra Australis instead of the British.

Who the hell is bashing Australia here? Jesus you're unnecessarily partisan at times.

 

[Gough]

White mans burden hey?

Tell me Xsess, will you share the same views when a technologically advanced alien civilization lands, forces you to speak their language, builds homes on your land, take your children away from you, removes our laws and government, before colonizing over the top of us and so forth?

Bet you would be singing a very different tune.

Hypocrite.

The poor sad bastard is already shitting himself about the Muslims, don't be giving him something else to unnecessarily get his knickers in a twist about.

 

[Malifice]

The poor sad bastard is already shitting himself about the Muslims, don't be giving him something else to unnecessarily get his knickers in a twist about.

He's upset the Muslims want to come here uninvited and change his way of life 'for the better'.

While defending the exact same s**t from the English.

 

[telsor]

Seriously, how do you know this to be true?
Do you not read media reports or do they go against your thinking?
Why are the press/others (need special permission which is not often granted) not allowed any near these detention centres?
Why the secrecy if the conditions are that good?

Have you seen refugee camps around the world? Look some up, see the pictures...They're hellholes.

 

[telsor]

They're not illegal. Seeking refuge isn't illegal. Get that through your head.

No, seeking refuge isn't illegal, but they're not arriving by legal means, therefore they are illegal.

Doesn't really matter, just because people arrive seeking refuge doesn't mean we have to open the doors and give them much of anything, just safety from whatever they're fleeing. On Manus/Nauru, they get food, shelter and a good deal more. Far better than most refugees get.

 

[Maggie5]

Have you seen refugee camps around the world? Look some up, see the pictures...They're hellholes.

I said, "how would you know this to be true?"
Perhaps have a look at The Guardian site unless of course, you don't want anything to change your predetermined view.

 

[telsor]

Wasn't asking you.

As to your question, I've asked m'self that on many occasion and come to the same conclusion. If not for the British colonial machine raping and pillaging this fine land, and screwin' with my oirish forebears forcing them to take the perilous journey here(sometimes in chains) then I probably wouldn't be livin' this life of Riley.

Or your ancestors would have died in the potato famine.

 

[telsor]

I said, "how would you know this to be true?"
Perhaps have a look at The Guardian site unless of course, you don't want anything to change your predetermined view.

I've seen camps in places like Uganda. Trust me when I say that the 'scary/bad' images that get out of Manus would be a delight to people there.

Manus: the toilet is broken
Uganda: You mean the pit is full and we need to dig another one?

Manus: Hot water runs out.
Uganda: how far did you have to walk and how long did you have to queue at the tap?

Manus: Internet was cut off
Uganda: interwhat?

Manus: the huts we sleep in aren't well air conditioned
Uganda: the tents have holes.


edited to add: forgot to include a line about food...something about both quality and quantity.

 

[Maggie5]

I've seen camps in places like Uganda. Trust me when I say that the 'scary/bad' images that get out of Manus would be a delight to people there.

Manus: the toilet is broken
Uganda: You mean the pit is full and we need to dig another one?

Manus: Hot water runs out.
Uganda: how far did you have to walk and how long did you have to queue at the tap?

Manus: Internet was cut off
Uganda: interwhat?

Manus: the huts we sleep in aren't well air conditioned
Uganda: the tents have holes.


edited to add: forgot to include a line about food...something about both quality and quantity.

Uganda!!! comparing Australian policies to that of Uganda?
By the way you didn't respond to any of my questions.
The examples you have provided are old, try checking it out for the past week.
Seriously, I would have expected better from you.

 

[Xsess]

White mans burden hey?

Tell me Xsess, will you share the same views when a technologically advanced alien civilization lands, forces you to speak their language, builds homes on your land, take your children away from you, removes our laws and government, before colonizing over the top of us and so forth?

Bet you would be singing a very different tune..

Yes if the Axis powers had won World War 2 things would have been a whole lot different around here. In fact if Japan colonised over the top of us we wouldn't be having a debate about refugees seeing as Japan dont have any. That is actually my point when I questioned the relevence of bringing up 1788 and the subsequent historical treatment of Aboriginals. Ie - if Australia wasn't colonised by the british someone else would have and there's every probability the plight of aboriginals would have been worse.

Hypocrite.

Hypocritical to support our current illegal immigrant policy because Britain colonised Australia in 1788?

Am I hearing this right?

 

[Xsess]

Uganda!!! comparing Australian policies to that of Uganda?
By the way you didn't respond to any of my questions.
The examples you have provided are old, try checking it out for the past week.
Seriously, I would have expected better from you.

No he was comparing a typical squalid refugee camp in Uganda with the relative luxury at Manus.

 

[telsor]

Uganda!!! comparing Australian policies to that of Uganda?
By the way you didn't respond to any of my questions.
The examples you have provided are old, try checking it out for the past week.
Seriously, I would have expected better from you.

I stated that conditions were far better than in the rest of the world, you asked how I knew this and I told you.

As for the other questions,
Do you not read media reports or do they go against your thinking?

Some, not all. They tend to be quite repetitive on their predetermined theme.

Why are the press/others (need special permission which is not often granted) not allowed any near these detention centres?

Because it's disruptive and doesn't achieve any benefit.

Why the secrecy if the conditions are that good?

'good' is a relative term...compared to a 5 star hotel, it's squalor, compared to the vast majority of refugees, it's paradise. Why the secrecy? Because it doesn't do any good...Anything wrong get's blown up to be torture and similar awfulness, which simply encourages those within to make things worse (egged on by refugee advocates outside who use such things for PR).

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

No, seeking refuge isn't illegal, but they're not arriving by legal means, therefore they are illegal.

Doesn't really matter, just because people arrive seeking refuge doesn't mean we have to open the doors and give them much of anything, just safety from whatever they're fleeing. On Manus/Nauru, they get food, shelter and a good deal more. Far better than most refugees get.

Lifelong mental health problems (that's if they don't top 'emselves first)

 

[Malifice]

No, seeking refuge isn't illegal, but they're not arriving by legal means, therefore they are illegal.

What are these 'legal means' to arrive in a country as an asylum seeker?

Please show me the actual law you're referring to as well, otherwise I'm calling bullshit.

 

[Malifice]

Yes if the Axis powers had won World War 2 things would have been a whole lot different around here.

So if our country got bulldozed and a new society replaced over the top of it, you would be happy?

Am I hearing this right?

Yes. Youre a complete hypocrite.

Apparently colonizing and imposing ones culture and lifestyle over the top of another culture is totally OK with you. You clearly approved of it in your post above re Aboriginal people of Australia.

Of course, this is basically your number 1 fear about Muslims.

You're a hypocrite of the highest order.

 

[Maggie5]

I stated that conditions were far better than in the rest of the world, you asked how I knew this and I told you.

As for the other questions,
Do you not read media reports or do they go against your thinking?

Some, not all. They tend to be quite repetitive on their predetermined theme.

Why are the press/others (need special permission which is not often granted) not allowed any near these detention centres?

Because it's disruptive and doesn't achieve any benefit.

Why the secrecy if the conditions are that good?

'good' is a relative term...compared to a 5 star hotel, it's squalor, compared to the vast majority of refugees, it's paradise. Why the secrecy? Because it doesn't do any good...Anything wrong get's blown up to be torture and similar awfulness, which simply encourages those within to make things worse (egged on by refugee advocates outside who use such things for PR).

Perhaps just stop at the first and check out the Guardian, I noticed that you have not said if you had read their recent reports. Murdoch press reader only perhaps?
You mean openness and an objective assessment of the situation can be disruptive? My taxes are paying for this.
Your comparisons to a 5 star hotel are over the top.
Last year, this government paid 3.3 billion, let me repeat 3.3 billion in one year, seems like a waste when holding them in detention in Australia is much cheaper and closer to medical treatment and more jobs here.

 

[Maggie5]

Interesting story currently on ABC news where the first detainee has been released into the community. He is a civil engineer so his job prospects should be good. Only problem is that PNG still do not have a policy on resettlement and he can't work but meanwhile he is learning the language.
Seems like a nice person and happy to be out of detention.

 

[Max zero]

To say that the only choice is one of death at sea or death by a thousand cuts on a sandbar in the Pacific does suggest a certain lack of imagination. A regional solution with cooperation between all countries with skin in the game would seem to be a logical starting point in solving this problem. But then again, given your anti Islamic bigotry I'd suggest you're not really interested in solving the problem anyway, more just keeping the Mussies out.

Wow so easy a regional agreement! Man why hasn't anyone thought of that?

 

[GuruJane]

To say that the only choice is one of death at sea or death by a thousand cuts on a sandbar in the Pacific does suggest a certain lack of imagination. A regional solution with cooperation between all countries with skin in the game would seem to be a logical starting point in solving this problem.

Co-operation to do what exactly, Gough?

For instance, which regional countries do you see accepting a resettlement number as PNG has done?

 

[Gough]

As I said, any country with skin in the game Oz, NZ, Malaysia, Indonesia. This is not a problem that is going to get any better, though most of the countries in the region seem to want to do as little as possible to try to help these people I fear my hopes are in vain.

 

[GuruJane]

Interesting story currently on ABC news where the first detainee has been released into the community. He is a civil engineer so his job prospects should be good. Only problem is that PNG still do not have a policy on resettlement and he can't work but meanwhile he is learning the language.

A little bit more than interesting. This could be a game changer.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-...-from-detention-explores-manus-island/6046602

The ABC correspondant in PNG must be crawling, crawling with embarrassment at the lies from the refugee advocates he pedalled last week not to mention the iphone footage he facilitated on behalf of the economic migrant malcontents who did not make the cut on the refugee processing.

All of it cooked up to take attention away from the first asylum seekers being transferred into the transit centre for resettlement.
Now it seems ABC is trying to make up for their unprofessional behaviour of last week.

btw - PNG does have a policy on resettlement, the transit accommodation is the first step.

 

[Xsess]

So if our country got bulldozed and a new society replaced over the top of it, you would be happy?.

Hypothetical strawman and of course impossible to answer. Multiculturalism is about the only experience we can reflect on and I'm generally a supporter of multiculturalism.

Yes. Youre a complete hypocrite.
Apparently colonizing and imposing ones culture and lifestyle over the top of another culture is totally OK with you. You clearly approved of it in your post above re Aboriginal people of Australia.

Of course, this is basically your number 1 fear about Muslims.

You're a hypocrite of the highest order.

You made this up. I posed the question what relevence is 1788 in the 2015 illegal immigration debate, and 2) stated that colonisation of Australia in 1788 was inevitable with potentially worse outcomes for aboriginals. Moreover what happened to the aboriginal people can be altered, it is what it is. People who argue for political reasons that the lot of aboriginal people is worse today than it was 300 years ago are not helping aboriginals one iota.

 

[GuruJane]

As I said, any country with skin in the game Oz, NZ, Malaysia, Indonesia. This is not a problem that is going to get any better, though most of the countries in the region seem to want to do as little as possible to try to help these people I fear my hopes are in vain.

So you seriously think Malaysia and Indonesia would be accepting refugees for resettlement Gough? Why haven't they done so already?

 

[Malifice]

I'm generally a supporter of multiculturalism.

Im tempted to make this my new sig.

 

[Maggie5]

A little bit more than interesting. This could be a game changer.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-...-from-detention-explores-manus-island/6046602

The ABC correspondant in PNG must be crawling, crawling with embarrassment at the lies from the refugee advocates he pedalled last week not to mention the iphone footage he facilitated on behalf of the economic migrant malcontents who did not make the cut on the refugee processing.

All of it cooked up to take attention away from the first asylum seekers being transferred into the transit centre for resettlement.
Now it seems ABC is trying to make up for their unprofessional behaviour of last week.

btw - PNG does have a policy on resettlement, the transit accommodation is the first step.

Seriously, you should see a doctor if that is what you got from that article. Embarrassed!!!!What rubbish.
Only you could turn a positive story into a negative one.
PNG does not have a resettlement policy.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-05/png-to-give-training-visas-jobs-to-refugees/5867764
"These people will not yet be permanently resettled," Mr Pato said.
"While this policy is being redeveloped, genuine refugees will be given visas and moved from the Manus Regional Processing Centre to a new purpose-built facility in East Lorengau," Mr Pato said.
"It is not clear what visas the refugees will be given, as PNG does not currently have a refugee visa".
"No time frame was given for the refugee decisions or resettlement proces".