The future of the ABC - Guthrie sacked

[Xsess]

OK.
I'm a child, and my dad took me with him, to Syria and has been killed while fighting for terrorists.
I was born in Australia.
I'm 8 years old.

I've been on a tv show, saying that my dad called Abbott "Tony dumb dumb".

What happens to me?

Most likely you die Syria because there's bugger all anyone can do to save you from the fate you own parents orchestrated?

 

[Malifice]

The image is the sort of gotya stunt you would see on Q&A. Find the worst and most extreme example of system breakdown leading to human rights abuse then attempt to paint it as relevent to this topic. In doing so your effectively accusing thosee opposing your view as being supportive of the types of attrocities they are in fact arguing against it, you also claim the high moral ground on the issue when in fact it is you arguing the morally redundent scenario by arguing the "rights" of terrorists at the expense of the rest of Australian society who deserve to remain connected to their heads.

And with this entire post you've just abrogated the presumption of innocence.

Why should someone accused of being a terrorist have less rights than you or I?

 

[Xsess]

And with this entire post you've just abrogated the presumption of innocence.

Why should someone accused of being a terrorist have less rights than you or I?

They have precisely the same rights as you or I.

 

[Malifice]

Most likely you die Syria because there's bugger all anyone can do to save you from the fate you own parents orchestrated?

I thought this was about protecting innocent people (like children)? You literally used 'won't someone think of the children' in your emotive plea re asylum seekers the other week.

You're all over the shop.

 

[CM86]

Most likely you die Syria because there's bugger all anyone can do to save you from the fate you own parents orchestrated?

Nope, I've managed to get to an airport and have just enough money to fly back to Australia.

So, 8 years old, in Syria. Dad fought with ISIS and died.

 

[Malifice]

They have precisely the same rights as you or I.

Nah man. You just expressly argued for special laws to apply to people suspected of terrorism. Not convicted of terrorism. Suspected.

 

[rodney hoo]

Traitor! How could you?
By the way, I don't mind my taxes paying for the ABC, I object to paying for the salaries of the majority of MP's. Thank goodness Sophie is not one of them.

I love my taxes going to the abc, well rounded programs for all. For a person that never lived on the land the information I get from Landline is valuable, their programs are balanced, just last night the show on captain Arthur Phillip was eye opening with balanced views even though not everyone agreed with one another positions. Keep it up my abc.

 

[Xsess]

Nah man. You just expressly argued for special laws to apply to people suspected of terrorism. Not convicted of terrorism. Suspected.

If you were "suspected" of terrorism you would be treated the same as everyone else.

I thought this was about protecting innocent people (like children)? You literally used 'won't someone think of the children' in your emotive plea re asylum seekers the other week.

You're all over the shop.

What can the Australian goverment do to save these kids from the hands of their mother (and husband re the 14 yo girl) who is most likely an ISIS member, from the middle of a warzone? Invade?

 

[Xsess]

Nope, I've managed to get to an airport and have just enough money to fly back to Australia.

So, 8 years old, in Syria. Dad fought with ISIS and died.

You would return to Australia and most likely become a ward of the state?

 

[Gough]

If you were "suspected" of terrorism you would be treated the same as everyone else.



What can to Australian goverment do to save these kids from the hands of their mother (and husband re the 14 yo girl) who is most likely an ISIS member, from the middle of a warzone? Invade?

"We're doing everything we can to destroy and degrade the ISIS death cult." Do you really think that that doesn't include a few men on the ground that it was best nobody asked about?

 

[CM86]

You would return to Australia and most likely become a ward of the state?

So I'd be let back into Australia?
Why?

What if I was 15 years old?

 

[Xsess]

What if I was 15 years old?

I suspect you most probably are.

 

[CM86]

I suspect you most probably are.

As long as you're starting to understand the problem with the legislation that you're cheerleading, I don't care what age you think I personally am.

 

[Dry Rot]

An interesting take on Abbott's scaremongering - worth reading the whole article

Tony Abbott's national security scare campaign hides the truth: he's making a hash of the economy

Would you say our Prime Minister is seeking to calm our overblown fears or is playing them for all he's worth?

Precisely. And I'll tell you why. Because he's discovered he's not much chop at leadership - at inspiring us with a vision of a better future, at explaining and justifying necessary but unpopular measures - but he is good at running scare campaigns, to which the Aussie punter seems particularly susceptible.

But, above all, because he wants to divert our attention from the hash he's making of managing the economy.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tony-...ng-a-hash-of-the-economy-20150630-gi16ie.html

 

[Windhover]

Now if only they could get rid of that pesky ABC that stands in the way of the official State propaganda machine 'News Corp'. Cutting 500 million from it's budget, labeling them 'terrorist sympathizers' and 'working against national security' (while standing in front of flags) wasn't enough - It might even be time to appoint someone to ensure 'appropriate content' (read - ensuring the parroting of the 'stop the boats' and 'death cult' mantras) after the recent 'review' is completed.

I completely disagree with the suggestion that News Corp is the official State propaganda machine. This puts the cart before the horse. Limited News does not publish on behalf of the government. Rather, Rupert through his news outlets, proscriptively directs the government as to its agenda and correctively punishes those who do not follow the directions without a good excuse.

The ABC has the temerity of following its charter of independence. In so doing it pisses off and embarrasses all sides of politics and is fundamentally antagonistic to the News Corp agenda. The argument that the ABC, puffed up with public money, unfairly competes in the news market against more efficient private enterprise is a most beautiful piece of sophistry. Funnily enough, the Guardian, a much more progressive news outlet, doesn't complain. Unless there is something newsworthy about big **** on page 3 of Rupert's most worthy efforts, the ABC and Rupert's rags occupy completely different markets.

 

[madmug]

An interesting take on Abbott's scaremongering - worth reading the whole article



http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tony-...ng-a-hash-of-the-economy-20150630-gi16ie.html

This is exactly the truth of the matter. Abort is a successful attack dog in parliament. He is aggressive & totally self impressed.

His work on Gillard was a site to behold. Nasty vicious no holds barred. Now he is in power, which is all he wanted, his skills at positive leadership of the nation are totally non existent. Infact he is dangerous & detrimental to this nations future.

Their is still plenty of time for many more people to see through his 'emperors clothes'.

The trouble is, at this stage, his opponent is almost invisible himself.

 

[Maggie5]

I completely disagree with the suggestion that News Corp is the official State propaganda machine. This puts the cart before the horse. Limited News does not publish on behalf of the government. Rather, Rupert through his news outlets, proscriptively directs the government as to its agenda and correctively punishes those who do not follow the directions without a good excuse.

The ABC has the temerity of following its charter of independence. In so doing it pisses off and embarrasses all sides of politics and is fundamentally antagonistic to the News Corp agenda. The argument that the ABC, puffed up with public money, unfairly competes in the news market against more efficient private enterprise is a most beautiful piece of sophistry. Funnily enough, the Guardian, a much more progressive news outlet, doesn't complain. Unless there is something newsworthy about big **** on page 3 of Rupert's most worthy efforts, the ABC and Rupert's rags occupy completely different markets.

Actually that is a very good point about other news media outlets, further given how small they are you would think that they would be more disadvantaged.
Yep, News Corpse have soo much to lose. Perhaps if they decided to just give us the news and not opinion, it wouldn't be so bad.

 

[telsor]

Actually that is a very good point about other news media outlets, further given how small they are you would think that they would be more disadvantaged.
Yep, News Corpse have soo much to lose. Perhaps if they decided to just give us the news and not opinion, it wouldn't be so bad.

As opposed to the ABC?

 

[Xsess]

As long as you're starting to understand the problem with the legislation that you're cheerleading, I don't care what age you think I personally am.

There is no problem with the legislation. We have a whole immigration department who assess information and grant citizenship if people meet criteria. No lawyers involved. If the ADF subsequently present evidence that someone is suspected of terrorism, you cant then say the immigration department no longer has juristiction on revoking citizenship, that its suddenly a legal matter? Mal would like to think so but then again he's a lawyer who probably has his eye on a holiday house in Eagle Bay.

 

[CM86]

There is no problem with the legislation. We have a whole immigration department who assess information and grant people citizenship if they meet criteria. If the ADF subsequently present evidence that someone is suspected of terrorism, you cant then say the immigration department no longer has juristiction on revoking citizenship and its a legal matter. Mal would like to think so but then again he's a lawyer who probably has his eye on a holiday house in Eagle Bay.

So, it won't be left up to ministerial discretion?

 

[Xsess]

So, it won't be left up to ministerial discretion?

The guy at the top of the immigration department, yes. On advice from his department. Thats all the checks and balances you need. The Minister would last 5 minutes if he abused his power and ignored his own bureocracy, massive domestic political backlash.

 

[CM86]

The guy at the top of the immigration department, yes. On advice from his department. Thats all the checks and balances you need. The Minister would last 5 minutes if he abused his power and ignored his own bureocracy, massive domestic political backlash.

How would you know if a minister abused his power?
Wouldn't this all fall under national security?

Why do we need courts then? Would you rather a larger government, and no courts?

 

[Malifice]

There is no problem with the legislation. We have a whole immigration department who assess information and grant citizenship if people meet criteria. No lawyers involved. If the ADF subsequently present evidence that someone is suspected of terrorism, you cant then say the immigration department no longer has juristiction on revoking citizenship, that its suddenly a legal matter? Mal would like to think so but then again he's a lawyer who probably has his eye on a holiday house in Eagle Bay.

Yes mate, it's a legal matter. We're talking about the State making a decision that deprives a person of fundamental Liberty.

What's your problem with having an apolitical judiciary make the decision?

Why doesn't the State simply do away with courts altogether. Be much more efficient eh?

 

[Maggie5]

As opposed to the ABC?

Yes

 

[Windhover]

Actually that is a very good point about other news media outlets, further given how small they are you would think that they would be more disadvantaged.
Yep, News Corpse have soo much to lose. Perhaps if they decided to just give us the news and not opinion, it wouldn't be so bad.

All "news" is opinion. Every sentence of a newspaper might be factually based but merely the reporting of a news item carries with it the implication (opinion) that the news is important. It isn't hard to feel there is a growing sex crime problem if a tv station's news accurately reports sex crimes for 50% of every program. Even if the rate of sex crimes is decreasing.

It is not Limited New's opinion that is disgraceful. It is Rupert's political agenda of rewarding and punishing pollies and others to do his good work. His modus operandi was layed out for all to see in the Levison enquiry.