Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

[CountryRace]

There was a thread deleted, i suppose cia choppers crashing with tons off coke are off limit - but more importantly @tesseract made a very interesting post

i wish i could remember how it went

the context was:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Project MKOFTEN was a covert Department of Defense program developed in conjunction with the CIA. A partner program to MKSEARCH, the goal of MKOFTEN was to "test the behavioral and toxicological effects of certain drugs on animals and humans".[1]
According to author Gordon Thomas' 2007 book, Secrets and Lies, the CIA's Operation Often was also initiated by the chief of the CIA's Technical Services Branch, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, to "explore the world of black magic" and "harness the forces of darkness and challenge the concept that the inner reaches of the mind are beyond reach". As part of Operation Often, Dr. Gottlieb and other CIA employees visited with and recruited fortune-tellers, palm-readers, clairvoyants, astrologists, mediums, psychics, specialists in demonology, witches and warlocks, Satanists, other occult practitioners, and more.[2]


Why would these powerful people waste time and money of these things unless, there was something to it? how does that sit with the staunch atheists? Why else would they dabble in demonology and satanist-ism...

 

[tesseract]

There was a thread deleted, i suppose cia choppers crashing with tons off coke are off limit - but more importantly @tesseract made a very interesting post

i wish i could remember how it went

the context was:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Project MKOFTEN was a covert Department of Defense program developed in conjunction with the CIA. A partner program to MKSEARCH, the goal of MKOFTEN was to "test the behavioral and toxicological effects of certain drugs on animals and humans".[1]
According to author Gordon Thomas' 2007 book, Secrets and Lies, the CIA's Operation Often was also initiated by the chief of the CIA's Technical Services Branch, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, to "explore the world of black magic" and "harness the forces of darkness and challenge the concept that the inner reaches of the mind are beyond reach". As part of Operation Often, Dr. Gottlieb and other CIA employees visited with and recruited fortune-tellers, palm-readers, clairvoyants, astrologists, mediums, psychics, specialists in demonology, witches and warlocks, Satanists, other occult practitioners, and more.[2]


Why would these powerful people waste time and money of these things unless, there was something to it? how does that sit with the staunch atheists? Why else would they dabble in demonology and satanist-ism...

Those working on Operation Often likely know something that the ignorant and/or mislead people, most notably atheists, don't want to acknowledge: the existence of spirit creatures/beings, as mentioned in the bible. The bible strictly forbids the use or dabbling in sorcery - magic / black magic - and divination, for such involves the invoking of demons / fallen angels - the very ones God has condemned.

There may have been little bit more to my deleted post, but this was the gist of it. I hope this helps.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Those working on Operation Often likely know something that the ignorant and/or mislead people, most notably atheists, don't want to acknowledge: the existence of spirit creatures/beings, as mentioned in the bible. The bible strictly forbids the use or dabbling in sorcery - magic / black magic - and divination, for such involves the invoking of demons / fallen angels - the very ones God has condemned.

There may have been little bit more to my deleted post, but this was the gist of it. I hope this helps.

lol

 

[Maggie5]

lol

Was the virgin birth magic? Never quite worked that one out.

 

[GETTUCKED]

There was a thread deleted, i suppose cia choppers crashing with tons off coke are off limit - but more importantly @tesseract made a very interesting post

i wish i could remember how it went

the context was:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Project MKOFTEN was a covert Department of Defense program developed in conjunction with the CIA. A partner program to MKSEARCH, the goal of MKOFTEN was to "test the behavioral and toxicological effects of certain drugs on animals and humans".[1]
According to author Gordon Thomas' 2007 book, Secrets and Lies, the CIA's Operation Often was also initiated by the chief of the CIA's Technical Services Branch, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, to "explore the world of black magic" and "harness the forces of darkness and challenge the concept that the inner reaches of the mind are beyond reach". As part of Operation Often, Dr. Gottlieb and other CIA employees visited with and recruited fortune-tellers, palm-readers, clairvoyants, astrologists, mediums, psychics, specialists in demonology, witches and warlocks, Satanists, other occult practitioners, and more.[2]


Why would these powerful people waste time and money of these things unless, there was something to it? how does that sit with the staunch atheists? Why else would they dabble in demonology and satanist-ism...

The Dr uses words like "explore" and "harness". Are we sure the words "try and" was not removed from the beginning of the harness quote? So whats wrong with them trying/exploring to see if there is any truth to the so called world of black magic or if there are any forces of darkness that can be harnessed to challenge the concept that the inner reaches of the mind are beyond reach? People like yourself and tesseract say its there without evidence. Whats wrong with them looking to see if there is any evidence of this by trying to do the things that the people who believe wont do because their god tells them not to but at the same time say is there?

Im not saying there arent forces that we dont understand and im not saying that it isnt god/angels/demons or whatever you want to call it but without evidence or people to explore if there is then it is all meaningless. These forces could be anything and just because we dont understand them doesnt mean that they have to be attributed to god or any other such biblical term.

 

[Boston tiger]

Was the virgin birth magic? Never quite worked that one out.

I think that's just the Bible referring to the Big Bang theory.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Was the virgin birth magic? Never quite worked that one out.

Nah, simply plagiarised from other religions. Never understood the horror religion has for women's genitalia.

 

[skilts]

Never understood the horror religion has for women's genitalia.

It is a bit tasteless.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

It is a bit tasteless.

You're doing it wrong

 

[tesseract]

Was the virgin birth magic? Never quite worked that one out.

You haven't worked it out yet because you're not a bright spark. Understanding, in this instance, begins with the ability to read, or use Google. You're welcome to rejoin class once you're down with the basics in these two things.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

In the words of Hitch

The Greek demigod Perseus was born when the god Jupiter visited the virgin Danae as a shower of gold and got her with child. The god Buddha was born through an opening in his mother's flank. Catlicus the serpent-skirted caught a little ball of feathers from the sky and hid it in her bosom, and the Aztec god Huitzilopochtli was thus conceived. The virgin Nana took a pomegranate from the tree watered by the blood of the slain Agdestris, and laid it in her bosom, and gave birth to the god Attis. The virgin daughter of a Mongol king awoke one night and found herself bathed in a great light, which caused her to give birth to Genghis Khan. Krishna was born of the virgin Devaka. Horus was born of the virgin Isis. Mercury was born of the virgin Maia. Romulus was born of the virgin Rhea Sylvia. For some reason, many religions forced themselves to think of the birth canal as a one-way street.

 

[tesseract]

The Dr uses words like "explore" and "harness". Are we sure the words "try and" was not removed from the beginning of the harness quote? So whats wrong with them trying/exploring to see if there is any truth to the so called world of black magic or if there are any forces of darkness that can be harnessed to challenge the concept that the inner reaches of the mind are beyond reach? People like yourself and tesseract say its there without evidence.

Im not saying there arent forces that we dont understand and im not saying that it isnt god/angels/demons or whatever you want to call it but without evidence or people to explore if there is then it is all meaningless. These forces could be anything and just because we dont understand them doesnt mean that they have to be attributed to god or any other such biblical term.

Given that empiricism can't evidence or falsify the supernatural, the unbelievers can, and have, rationalized however they've chosen to. So, exploring sorcery in the hope finding evidence of demonic involvement is a waste of time. Demons seem to do just enough strange stuff to make some folks believers in ghosts, poltergeists, spirits, etc., but never enough to certainly reveal who they truly are and thus give the game away. (2 Corinthians 11:14) There's method and intellect behind this. The game is to draw folks away from God by making out they're anything other than they are, and muddying the waters by making ambiguous and thus bringing forth doubt as to what the bible says about them. The bible does say that these spirit creatures/beings are superior to humans. Their superior intellect means they're playing many people like puppets in order to mislead them. (Hebrews 2:9 & Matthew 11:11)

Whats wrong with them looking to see if there is any evidence of this by trying to do the things that the people who believe wont do because their god tells them not to but at the same time say is there?

Sorcery is an attempt to bypass God’s wisdom and power and give glory to Satan instead. That what's wrong with using/dabbling/exploring sorcery.

 

[Maggie5]

You haven't worked it out yet because you're not a bright spark. Understanding, in this instance, begins with the ability to read, or use Google. You're welcome to rejoin class once you're down with the basics in these two things.

Was that an insult?

 

[tesseract]

Was that an insult?

You've just validated my previous point.

 

[Maggie5]

You've just validated my previous point.

What avoiding a question, just in case you missed it, it was a question.
You don't have points, you have sarcasm and insults.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

There was a thread deleted, i suppose cia choppers crashing with tons off coke are off limit - but more importantly @tesseract made a very interesting post

i wish i could remember how it went

the context was:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Project MKOFTEN was a covert Department of Defense program developed in conjunction with the CIA. A partner program to MKSEARCH, the goal of MKOFTEN was to "test the behavioral and toxicological effects of certain drugs on animals and humans".[1]
According to author Gordon Thomas' 2007 book, Secrets and Lies, the CIA's Operation Often was also initiated by the chief of the CIA's Technical Services Branch, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, to "explore the world of black magic" and "harness the forces of darkness and challenge the concept that the inner reaches of the mind are beyond reach". As part of Operation Often, Dr. Gottlieb and other CIA employees visited with and recruited fortune-tellers, palm-readers, clairvoyants, astrologists, mediums, psychics, specialists in demonology, witches and warlocks, Satanists, other occult practitioners, and more.[2]


Why would these powerful people waste time and money of these things unless, there was something to it? how does that sit with the staunch atheists? Why else would they dabble in demonology and satanist-ism...

That just like the well known KGB and MI5 research into the paranormal and occult as well as the occult s**t the nazis turned to in the final years of WWII. none have wielded any tangible results, the research proves to things:

1: people trying to find any advantage sooner or later always try anything to get an advantage.
2: never underestimate a governments ability to find ways to piss away money.

 

[tesseract]

What avoiding a question, just in case you missed it, it was a question.

That fact that you want an answer despite the answer needn't be stated due to being obvious just further illustrates and validates my point.

You don't have points, you have sarcasm and insults.

Typical feminist projection. What a surprise.

 

[Maggie5]

That fact that you want an answer despite the answer needn't be stated due to being obvious just further illustrates and validates my point.



Typical feminist projection. What a surprise.

Such a sad case, bet you don't have any mirrors in your home.
Very scary.

 

[GETTUCKED]

Given that empiricism can't evidence or falsify the supernatural, the unbelievers can, and have, rationalized however they've chosen to. So, exploring sorcery in the hope finding evidence of demonic involvement is a waste of time. Demons seem to do just enough strange stuff to make some folks believers in ghosts, poltergeists, spirits, etc., but never enough to certainly reveal who they truly are and thus give the game away. (2 Corinthians 11:14) There's method and intellect behind this. The game is to draw folks away from God by making out they're anything other than they are, and muddying the waters by making ambiguous and thus bringing forth doubt as to what the bible says about them. The bible does say that these spirit creatures/beings are superior to humans. Their superior intellect means they're playing many people like puppets in order to mislead them. (Hebrews 2:9 & Matthew 11:11)



Sorcery is an attempt to bypass God’s wisdom and power and give glory to Satan instead. That what's wrong with using/dabbling/exploring sorcery.

Empiricism is a theory, maybe they were testing the theory. You can still document sensory experiences and this documentation is a build up of evidence.

The rest of your post is just drivel written as fact. I dont think these people believe in the drivel written in the bible but they are still willing to test the theories to see if there is something. We all have sensory experiences but what the bible says they are may not be what they are so they are looking in to what they are.

You do realise i was responding to the questions CountryRace asked yeah?

"Why would these powerful people waste time and money of these things unless, there was something to it? how does that sit with the staunch atheists? Why else would they dabble in demonology and satanist-ism..."

 

[tesseract]

Empiricism is a theory, maybe they were testing the theory. You can still document sensory experiences and this documentation is a build up of evidence.

Tell an atheist that immaterial spirit beings/creatures, who invisible to human eyes unless they allow themselves to be seen, can now be observed and experimented upon. God, being a spirit being/creature himself, is suddenly falsifiable to the science community, given your reasoning.

The rest of your post is just drivel written as fact.

Meaning you've got no answer to it.

I dont think these people believe in the drivel written in the bible but they are still willing to test the theories to see if there is something. We all have sensory experiences but what the bible says they are may not be what they are so they are looking in to what they are.

Your opinion on what these people supposedly think is irrelevant.

You do realise i was responding to the questions CountryRace asked yeah?

And?

"Why would these powerful people waste time and money of these things unless, there was something to it? how does that sit with the staunch atheists? Why else would they dabble in demonology and satanist-ism..."

This answers your statement: "I dont think these people believe in the drivel written in the bible but they are still willing to test the theories to see if there is something. We all have sensory experiences but what the bible says they are may not be what they are so they are looking in to what they are."

 

[GETTUCKED]

Tell an atheist that immaterial spirit beings/creatures, who invisible to human eyes unless they allow themselves to be seen, can now be observed and experimented upon. God, being a spirit being/creature himself, is suddenly falsifiable to the science community, given your reasoning."

Im not saying it is, im saying imo the reason for "operation often" was for these people to explore the sensory experiences. Im not saying they would have found anything. Just giving a reason why this operation may have been started.

Meaning you've got no answer to it."

Meaning this is has got nothing to do with what i am saying.

Your opinion on what these people supposedly think is irrelevant."

Its relevant because i am giving my opinion on why an operation like this may have been in operation.

This answers your statement: "I dont think these people believe in the drivel written in the bible but they are still willing to test the theories to see if there is something. We all have sensory experiences but what the bible says they are may not be what they are so they are looking in to what they are."

That is not my statement. And its actually not a statement at all. That is what CountryRace asked and i tried answering.

Your statement above in bold is the same as what i have been saying but in different words.

Im not having a dig at your religion or what you believe. I am giving a reason for the operation that CountryRace asked about.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

If a book contains a talking snake, a man who lived inside a whale and the dead rising from their graves, en masse, it is a work of fiction and should be treated as such.

 

[tesseract]

Im not saying it is, im saying imo the reason for "operation often" was for these people to explore the sensory experiences. Im not saying they would have found anything. Just giving a reason why this operation may have been started.

And my original post on this matter was that 'exploring' these matters is strictly forbidden in the bible, for the bible tells us the answer to these questions.

Meaning this is has got nothing to do with what i am saying.

Given that you responded to my use of the bible, referring to the bible to answer on this matter is relevant.

Its relevant because i am giving my opinion on why an operation like this may have been in operation.

You're free to put forth your opinion, but it doesn't reinforce your position.

That is not my statement. And its actually not a statement at all. That is what CountryRace asked and i tried answering.

It is your statement from post #13993.

Your statement above in bold is the same as what i have been saying but in different words.

The statement above in bold was copypasta'd from your post. I provided an answer to this.

Im not having a dig at your religion or what you believe.

That's why you called it "drivel".

I am giving a reason for the operation that CountryRace asked about.

That's what we're discussing.

 

[Bennett.]

If a book contains a talking snake, a man who lived inside a whale and the dead rising from their graves, en masse, it is a work of fiction and should be treated as such.

Well, now that that's settled, let's move on to the next.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Well, now that that's settled, let's move on to the next.

Good idea.

If a book has the protagonist flying on a magic horse and splitting the moon in two, it is a work of fiction and should be treated as such.

This is fun, who shall we do next?