Mega Thread The "How's he tracking for 2012" mega thread.

[Hodgepodge]

Achilles injuries can be monitored because we tend to build up little tears before the whole thing goes. He will probably have to play in footy boots with special/extra arch support from now on, and start playing FF while slowly introducing him into the ruck, starting with 5 minutes a game and working it up from there.

I'm not so worried about Roughead, but I think we'll give him time and he can get back into the ruck in earnest in 2013.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

I reckon its not only the injury recovering but i think mentally he has to get over it as well. it was so innocuous that he might think it will just go any moment so his rehab will have as much to do with repairing the tendon and his confidence

 

[Big A]

Achilles injuries can be monitored because we tend to build up little tears before the whole thing goes. He will probably have to play in footy boots with special/extra arch support from now on, and start playing FF while slowly introducing him into the ruck, starting with 5 minutes a game and working it up from there.

I'm not so worried about Roughead, but I think we'll give him time and he can get back into the ruck in earnest in 2013.

I don't think we should play him Ruck at all. This is what caused him the injury in the first place - and he will be susceptible to doing it again if played in that possie. At 193cm he is not a long term solution to our rucks and nor should he be. Plant him at FF, improve his accuracy and voila. Our rucks should be adequate, with the acquisition of more looming.

Who needs Fev when we have big Rough?

 

[sohsam]

I don't think we should play him Ruck at all. This is what caused him the injury in the first place - and he will be susceptible to doing it again if played in that possie. At 193cm he is not a long term solution to our rucks and nor should he be. Plant him at FF, improve his accuracy and voila. Our rucks should be adequate, with the acquisition of more looming.

Who needs Fev when we have big Rough?

Exactly what I have been saying. He has kicked 70 goals in 08, 55 goals, 45 behinds in 2010 when he was looking to pass them off, imagine how him will go at FF. I know alot of people want him to play CHB, but I agree definitely not at ruck and at 193cm as you said why would you.

 

[mattyflux]

Exactly what I have been saying. He has kicked 70 goals in 08, 55 goals, 45 behinds in 2010 when he was looking to pass them off, imagine how him will go at FF. I know alot of people want him to play CHB, but I agree definitely not at ruck and at 193cm as you said why would you.

You would play hime in the ruck because he dominated when he went on the ball! Best I have seen him play for years. Plus with the sub rule in it makes it risky carrying two big slow blokes in your team and you need to be more flexible.

I agree though, a cautious approach to the Big Roughnut is most likely what we will see. I think he will sart to do small stints in the ruck later in the year and back into it without restriction in 2013.

 

[Cyril the Squirrel]

I don't think we should play him Ruck at all. This is what caused him the injury in the first place - and he will be susceptible to doing it again if played in that possie. At 193cm he is not a long term solution to our rucks and nor should he be. Plant him at FF, improve his accuracy and voila. Our rucks should be adequate, with the acquisition of more looming.

Who needs Fev when we have big Rough?

That's up to the medicos to decide.. If he gets the green light to continue the ruck/forward swingman role, I think it is the position he is best suited to.

His problem was getting involved in the 2009/2010 seasons and being consistent. Some games he would bob up with a bag, other games he was SHOCKING. Even some of the games where he kicked 3-4 goals were ones where you wouldn't see him until the last 10mins of the last quarter in dead games adding %.

Playing on the ball got him involved, and he is an asset around the contest. We are not going to play him as a full time ruck, but a rucking forward is where he has played his best footy... and he can still kick 40-50 goals from this position.

 

[Henry Jr]

If he's fit enough to play forward, then he's fit enough to play ruck.

He never did his injury whilst rucking, he did it moving into position to take the ruck contest.

Big difference.

 

[Buddysurkidsdad]

Unless its proven by the medicos that his injury was caused by playing in the ruck then I am staggered at ppl suggesting he shouldnt play the ruck forward role when he is back to full fitness. Imo when he was up and about he was shaping as our most important player for finals. It was brilliant to see him play with such freedom and to use his athleticism and leap to impact contests around the ground. I wouldn't go are far to say he had stalled but he certainly wasn't playing to potential early in the season,

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

Now we are back on the track how is Boumann settling in? Good body language? Who is he getting friendly with?

 

[Mitchemx]

I don't think we should play him Ruck at all. This is what caused him the injury in the first place - and he will be susceptible to doing it again if played in that possie. At 193cm he is not a long term solution to our rucks and nor should he be. Plant him at FF, improve his accuracy and voila. Our rucks should be adequate, with the acquisition of more looming.

Who needs Fev when we have big Rough?

Where exactly is the proof that playing him the in the ruck caused his injury?

It's his best position and has to be given every opportunity to get back into the same role.

 

[sohsam]

You would play hime in the ruck because he dominated when he went on the ball! Best I have seen him play for years. Plus with the sub rule in it makes it risky carrying two big slow blokes in your team and you need to be more flexible.

I agree though, a cautious approach to the Big Roughnut is most likely what we will see. I think he will sart to do small stints in the ruck later in the year and back into it without restriction in 2013.

I thought they got Hale for that reason, changes in interchange rules. Are you saying they got that decision wrong? I

 

[sohsam]

You would play hime in the ruck because he dominated when he went on the ball! Best I have seen him play for years. Plus with the sub rule in it makes it risky carrying two big slow blokes in your team and you need to be more flexible.

I agree though, a cautious approach to the Big Roughnut is most likely what we will see. I think he will sart to do small stints in the ruck later in the year and back into it without restriction in 2013.

He dominated when he went on the ball: happy for him to on the ball as a big bodied midfielder. With sub rule it makes it risky carrying two big blokes: Didn't the club bring in hale in anticipation for this rule.

I totally agree with Big A. However, if most people think Hale will play 75% of time FF and ruck 25%, then perhaps as alot of people want, play Roughead at CHB on big blokes, if Bouman/Shoe cannot do the job.

If you do go with Roughead 25% ruck, then Hale may lose his spot as people thought Roughead/Hale/Franklin and possibly Gunston will be too tall/slow in the forward line.

I would like to know what medicos think, but surely if someone is not used to rucking and jumps like in basketball, end of game being tired and tried to push off can cause that kind of injury, again I totally agree with BigA, his comments are what I exactly thought.

 

[WWSD]

I don't know if this is the thread for this but... Is it just me or does it look like Franklin has lost 2-3 kilos? He looks somewhat skinnier then before & more athletic like he did back in 07-08 judging by the training pics on AFL.com, is it a good thing he dropped some weight? Yes! He now looks fitter & more faster then before.

 

[Prudster]

Personally, i see Hale and Roughy competing for the same spot. When Hale was recruited, Roughy hadn't really been tried as a ruckman, and there were huge questions marks over Bailey's fitness. Now, Bailey seems to be able to stay on the park (fingers crossed), and Roughy has carved out a new role for himself, which, imo makes Hale depth.

Remember back to the early games this year, when Roughy and Hale both played. Our forward line was so slow it wasn't funny. Roughy and Hale weren't even kicking more than 2 or 3 goals per game between them. We can't afford to play those two, Buddy AND Gunston in the same forward line. For one thing, who loses their spot to Gunston and Roughy, and for another, where does the pressure and pace come from?

IMO, our best set up will look like this:
Cyril Buddy Gunston
Breust Roughy Puopolo

Breust, Cyril and Puopolo will rotate out with the likes of Whitecross, Osborne, and even some of the midfielders, while Roughy rotates with Bailey through the ruck. If you replace Breust or Puopolo with Hale, we become extremely top heavy, and we will struggle to keep the ball in.

 

[mattyflux]

He dominated when he went on the ball: happy for him to on the ball as a big bodied midfielder. With sub rule it makes it risky carrying two big blokes: Didn't the club bring in hale in anticipation for this rule.

I totally agree with Big A. However, if most people think Hale will play 75% of time FF and ruck 25%, then perhaps as alot of people want, play Roughead at CHB on big blokes, if Bouman/Shoe cannot do the job.

If you do go with Roughead 25% ruck, then Hale may lose his spot as people thought Roughead/Hale/Franklin and possibly Gunston will be too tall/slow in the forward line.

I would like to know what medicos think, but surely if someone is not used to rucking and jumps like in basketball, end of game being tired and tried to push off can cause that kind of injury, again I totally agree with BigA, his comments are what I exactly thought.

Its funny how you and Big A are thinking exactly alike because I am thinking exactly like Prudster!

Repeated jumping can put increased load through the achilles however it is much much much more likely that you will strain your calf first. I would say Roughies achilles would heal up at about 95% strength. Many athletes have returned to top level sport following achilles repair including sports that involve repeated jumping. I would say let him gain his confidence and gradually build him up to ruckwork again. Players need to be played in their most valuable position IMO and for Roughie thats forward/back up ruckman.

As for Hale, if we get a good run with injury and the players I expect to improve do then I don't see him getting a gig in the 2nd half of the season. 1st reason Roughie is a much better forward. 2nd reason Roughie offers a heaps better contest in the centre square (probably not quite as good a tap ruckman but follows up better and applies much better pressure). 3rd reason is Hale is too slow to be a premanent forward and he offers little defensively.
I think Hale was recruited just to give us another ruck option. We had Renouf and Bailey then Lowden and Grimley who were both not ready for senior footy. We needed a backup and went for further insurance by getting Johnson on the rookie list.
I wouldn't say the coaches got it wrong with recruiting Hale. Last season was very much an unknown. The sub rule was new and clubs had no idea which way it was going to go. as it turned out clubs with a flexible ruck who could rest forward had an advantage as they could sub off their first ruck late, bring on another runner/midfielder and not lose too much in the middle. Having Roughie play that role allowed us to use Bruest and savage as subs which proved to be masterstrokes. I think we struggled to take advantage of the sub rule later in the season as Roughie played that role for us to perfection while Hale was out with his injured knee, once Roughie went down Hale didn't provide enough drive for us to rely on him as our sole ruck.

Thats just my opinion. I do like Hale and think he has a crack, I just think he is too slow unfortunately.

 

[Hawkzzz]

I liked Rough playing as an onballer but I doubt this will happen in 2012. Onballers need a good fitness base and I reckon the big Rough will be more suited to full forward (considering his interrupted pre season)...maybe late 2012

 

[sohsam]

Its funny how you and Big A are thinking exactly alike because I am thinking exactly like Prudster!

Repeated jumping can put increased load through the achilles however it is much much much more likely that you will strain your calf first. I would say Roughies achilles would heal up at about 95% strength. Many athletes have returned to top level sport following achilles repair including sports that involve repeated jumping. I would say let him gain his confidence and gradually build him up to ruckwork again. Players need to be played in their most valuable position IMO and for Roughie thats forward/back up ruckman.

As for Hale, if we get a good run with injury and the players I expect to improve do then I don't see him getting a gig in the 2nd half of the season. 1st reason Roughie is a much better forward. 2nd reason Roughie offers a heaps better contest in the centre square (probably not quite as good a tap ruckman but follows up better and applies much better pressure). 3rd reason is Hale is too slow to be a premanent forward and he offers little defensively.
I think Hale was recruited just to give us another ruck option. We had Renouf and Bailey then Lowden and Grimley who were both not ready for senior footy. We needed a backup and went for further insurance by getting Johnson on the rookie list.
I wouldn't say the coaches got it wrong with recruiting Hale. Last season was very much an unknown. The sub rule was new and clubs had no idea which way it was going to go. as it turned out clubs with a flexible ruck who could rest forward had an advantage as they could sub off their first ruck late, bring on another runner/midfielder and not lose too much in the middle. Having Roughie play that role allowed us to use Bruest and savage as subs which proved to be masterstrokes. I think we struggled to take advantage of the sub rule later in the season as Roughie played that role for us to perfection while Hale was out with his injured knee, once Roughie went down Hale didn't provide enough drive for us to rely on him as our sole ruck.

Thats just my opinion. I do like Hale and think he has a crack, I just think he is too slow unfortunately.

I agree with both of you that having Hale on the ground makes us slow and instead we could have an extra runner like bruest/savage. I guess both of us (biga & I) are cautious in not wanting him to ruck, but if can regain his leap and not relating to his injury, then yes it is good. The other thing is we had these discussions with other members before and most of us agreed that Hale needs to be the ruck who does the support work and Roughead to play at CHB on the big forwards as shoe etc could not do the job this year.

It is all up in the air, the fact that we are throwing roughead around so much suggests how important he is and that we need a few of him, at full forward, second ruck/midfielder, CHB. I think we have recruited enough players in backline with bouman and unless we are being thrashed I doubt he would go in the back line. He is one of the best forwards going around.

 

[mattyflux]

I agree with both of you that having Hale on the ground makes us slow and instead we could have an extra runner like bruest/savage. I guess both of us (biga & I) are cautious in not wanting him to ruck, but if can regain his leap and not relating to his injury, then yes it is good. The other thing is we had these discussions with other members before and most of us agreed that Hale needs to be the ruck who does the support work and Roughead to play at CHB on the big forwards as shoe etc could not do the job this year.

It is all up in the air, the fact that we are throwing roughead around so much suggests how important he is and that we need a few of him, at full forward, second ruck/midfielder, CHB. I think we have recruited enough players in backline with bouman and unless we are being thrashed I doubt he would go in the back line. He is one of the best forwards going around.

Don't worry about CHB, big Schoey has that covered! Remember this year he had an interupted pre-season with an achilles and then was injured again mid season. Watch how well he (mostly) read the play in the prelim against Collingwood. Sure he made some errors but all young inexperienced players do. Go back a couple of years and look how ordinary Ben Reid and Nathan Brown looked (alos Harry Taylor early in his career). The coaches see a lot in him which is why they keep giving him opportunities. 2012 will be huge for him I reckon.
The other thing with Schoey in 2012 s he should get more support with Gibbo and Stratts able to go thrid man up at the contests as they wont have to mind the tallest forwards all the time. I think Schoey and Gilham will take the talls. Gilhams return to our back half is very important in my opinion as it just gives us so much more flexibility and allows other players to play to their strengths.

Roughie will be anchored at full forward until his confidence returns, then he will slowly return to rucking duties. Unfortunately for Hale i think his opportunties will be limited in the 2nd half of the season unless we get injuries again.

I think our mix is pretty good at the moment. We have hardness and some quality outside runners through the midfield. We have a good flexible defence with Gibbo and Stratts able to play as thrid man up and play on mid size forwards as well as talls. And with the addition of Gunstan and the return of Roughead one of the most formidable forward lines in the comp.

Add to that a quality tap ruckman in Bailey (who should improve markedly).

Good times ahead, I'm tipping

 

[Cyril the Squirrel]

Watch how well he (mostly) read the play in the prelim against Collingwood.

He was fair to OK at best.

Don't want to beat up on the kid because I think he will become a good player for us, but he needs to stick with Gibbo and have an entire preseason of coaches bombing balls on his head.

I don't think it is just a matter of bulking up.. he needs to read the drop of the ball better and learn to position himself in the contest early.

 

[Camnstell]

Re: The "How'hes he tracking for 2012" mega thread.

Im another thats backing Shoey in for CHB. He's shown his body is receptive to putting on size, we need to keep that up and focu on his core strength. I really see him being a more than capable, even dominant CHB within the next 2 years -he never gives up and just needs the confidence.

Also encouraged to hear that I Omith won the 2.2km time trial with young Hill finishing a close second. Having Smith be able to get through a full preseason can only be a good thing for our side. Remember last year he wasnt long removed from local footy and wasnt able to partake in all the training as he wasnt used to the workload.... Good signs from the young fella.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

He was fair to OK at best.

Don't want to beat up on the kid because I think he will become a good player for us, but he needs to stick with Gibbo and have an entire preseason of coaches bombing balls on his head.

I don't think it is just a matter of bulking up.. he needs to read the drop of the ball better and learn to position himself in the contest early.

I think he reads the flight of the ball okay..... I think its nerves and confidence. Which will be assistaed with be able to gain weight and hold his position in the contest.

 

[eldorado]

The idea that rucking caused Roughy's injury can't be supported empirically.

Is it an injury normally associated with rucking? How many ruckmen do it?

Not many, no more than other positions.

Are 'ruckmen' somehow genetically different to KPD when it comes to their achilles? Obviously not.

Do ruckmen not also attempt to jump as high as they can? They do

Does a KPP not also jump as high as they can with a run-up, many times during a game? Yes.

Let's face it, Roughy could have done this going up for a grab at CHF.

But because he was playing in the ruck, the two are linked in a cause-effect relationship which can't be sustained.

 

[Hawkzzz]

The idea that rucking caused Roughy's injury can't be supported empirically.

Is it an injury normally associated with rucking? How many ruckmen do it?

Not many, no more than other positions.

Are 'ruckmen' somehow genetically different to KPD when it comes to their achilles? Obviously not.

Do ruckmen not also attempt to jump as high as they can? They do

Does a KPP not also jump as high as they can with a run-up, many times during a game? Yes.

Let's face it, Roughy could have done this going up for a grab at CHF.

But because he was playing in the ruck, the two are linked in a cause-effect relationship which can't be sustained.

You make a very valid point. However, now that he's done it, what position is most likely to aggravate it?? It's like Rioli and how the club did not want him spending much time in the midfield because that's the position he was likely to aggravate his hamstrings.

At 193cm you'd need to leap as high as you possibly can to have any impact in the Ruck. This is the problem we may face. It's not just leaping - it's leaping as high as you can. This is the conundrum the club faces. Will Rough aggravate his achilles by constantly jumping as high as he can???

I fully trust our medical team to decide this all important question. My guess is that Rough will not or barely Ruck during 2012. But I will be very happy to be proven wrong. (the upside is Rough may kick around 70 goals as a permanent full fwd).....

 

[Beachy]

Roughy will be eased back intot he side. What ever position he plays, it is important that he has confidence. The move to the ruck made him more confident about his ability to influence the contest. He was crap has the ruck but super at the contest. For a little change up, give him a run on the ball. Try to match that monster up. Hale was very important for us last year with contested marks. Something we have been lacking. He might be a little slow but if he can clunk those contested marks he becomes very dangerous.

I.smith will be exciting this year. Faded in and out of games due to fitness. Like the fact that they ended up putting Xman away to recover. Gilham will return and is super important to our structure. Our backline worked well last year and Stratton, Gibbo, Shoey all allow us to be very strong in that area next year. In the end, it is how the ball is moved into the forward line that really dictates how good a back man look.

High hopes for Hallahan and schnieder to keep improving. It is an exciting year ahead. If the kids can improve again (That is expected) then it takes the burdon off our older players and they can influence a game at a higher degree.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Interested to see how Roughy comes back...

Given its his take-off leg that was torn, I'd hope he is given extra time to "fully" heal.

Sure some athletes have recovered from this injury in the past from other sports but AFl is a different game and most arent 100+kgs either..

Having said that I hope he is eased based back and has an impact later in the year when he gets the miles into his legs.

Could prove to be the difference between a FLAG and not come September