The Off-Season Thread (Luke Ridnour destination watch)

[Dez!]

Philly are a complete joke. They are making a mockery of the league.

Nah.

And what about their fans? They are taking the piss out of them.

Expecting them to pay good money to go watch D-League standard basketball at times.

Its one thing to suck and get top draft pick after draft pick, but you need to build a winning culture as you go along or all of the players you draft along the way will jump ship the first chance they get.

You realise they were told to drop the jerseys by a guy off camera right?

They got what they wanted in Okafor and they'll build around him with Noel and Embiid (if healthy), Philly have got assets to make good moves to improve when they want which I think will be this year.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

The big overseeing problem as I see it is that we're not the Warriors (and Wes isn't Iggy, plus his unfortunate injury). What are we exactly aiming for?
Undre Malone I could see what we were building towards and with who. I'm clueless right now.
If it's all for an improbable 8th seed in a desperate attempt to keep Boogie on board then we'll be right back where we are now within a couple of years.
I just don't see it.

Firing Malone was the mistake to end all mistakes, an utter clusterf*ck.

However you've still got a top-10 player in the league on your roster, and you've got to pull out all stops to keep him. You'll never land another Boogie via trade or free agency, and the odds of drafting another comparable talent are long - just look at your last four drafts for evidence.

You can't afford to dwell on the Malone thing now - what's done is done. The only way to get respect back, within and without, is to win. Wes is not Iggy per se, but in terms of versatility and fit on the court and proven positive locker room influence, he's the closest thing for you. IMO, he's your guy.

It might seem like a classic Milwaukee strategy, but all your guys are young enough for you to have a stable team with the potential for growth for a while. This is decidedly not a Philly strategy, but it's not exactly Brooklyn either.

Believe me if we sign Rondo or Eliis or even both I can see the talent that is obvious to blind freddy but it would be an absolute mess with no long term direction. And as a fan of Sacramento the overriding thing that was needed was direction. Being aggressive is one thing but this just looks like a mistake.

Agreed, if it's been done to sign Monta and Rondo, it's a colossal mistake. The fit would be bad, and the locker room volatile.

If you sign Wes for 4/5 years and Rondo on a short term deal, then it's salvage-able. I still don't get the Rondo fascination - Collison seems a much better fit for your personnel - but if it's a short term deal, at least you're not chained to him. Plus you still have an alternative in Collison on the roster.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Nah.

You realise they were told to drop the jerseys by a guy off camera right?

They got what they wanted in Okafor and they'll build around him with Noel and Embiid (if healthy), Philly have got assets to make good moves to improve when they want which I think will be this year.

I bet they wanted D'AR over Okafor. I know if I was running them that's who i'd have wanted.

At least he's the first healthy lottery player they have drafted in a while though.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Agreed, if it's been done to sign Monta and Rondo, it's a colossal mistake. The fit would be bad, and the locker room volatile.

Maybe they are hoping the Kentucky factor works in their favour. Three former Wildcats and Rondo is good friends with Gay.

Basketballers are strange creatures. Stupid s**t like that might actually make a difference.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Nah.

What have they got. 3 years of tanking for a big who put up 9 and 8. Another big who will miss his 2nd straight season with injuries. Another big yet to play a minute. A Euro who may or may not come over. A million draft picks, that they will trade for more draft picks.

I'd love to be a GM. Ask for 6 years. Trade away all your players for picks. Trade those picks after 2 years for more picks and projects. I can delay having to get flicked for about 5 years while I sell the management these magic beans of asset management and draft picks.

Hinkie would wake up in cold sweats hoping his boss hasn't wised up to his s**t.

 

[hamG]

Hey if Philly can tank it again ... Ben Simmons. Embiid, Okafor, Simmons. Trade No-elle, get a 3&D guy for the 2 spot and then anyone can play the 1.

I hope they stuff it up though. You can't treat your fans like that over and over.

I bet the NBA would rig the lottery if Philly finished low again, put them at 6 or 7. That happened a couple of years ago to a team I forget.

Actually that is an interesting side note, which team is shaping the hardest to tank next season? This is where Simmons will end up no doubt.

 

[Dez!]

What have they got. 3 years of tanking for a big who put up 9 and 8. Another big who will miss his 2nd straight season with injuries. Another big yet to play a minute. A Euro who may or may not come over. A million draft picks, that they will trade for more draft picks.

I'd love to be a GM. Ask for 6 years. Trade away all your players for picks. Trade those picks after 2 years for more picks and projects. I can delay having to get flicked for about 5 years while I sell the management these magic beans of asset management and draft picks.

Hinkie would wake up in cold sweats hoping his boss hasn't wised up to his s**t.

Nerlens is an excellent prospect and had an excellent rookie season, is going to be a very good defensive piece for Philly.

Embiid status is unknown but he's got massive potential if he can get healthy, not going to rule him out yet.

Okafor has a post game that you don't see often coming through college anymore and he's going to make some noise from the get-go.

Saric will come over, the only problem has been the buy-out from what I've been reading and I'd expect to see him in 16-17 for Philly.

Yes most of those are unknowns but that's the route Philly has to go because the FA's weren't going there.

 

[stewie griffen]

So TRob ends up where?

 

[God Save Max King]

Nerlens is an excellent prospect and had an excellent rookie season, is going to be a very good defensive piece for Philly.

Embiid status is unknown but he's got massive potential if he can get healthy, not going to rule him out yet.

Okafor has a post game that you don't see often coming through college anymore and he's going to make some noise from the get-go.

Saric will come over, the only problem has been the buy-out from what I've been reading and I'd expect to see him in 16-17 for Philly.

Yes most of those are unknowns but that's the route Philly has to go because the FA's weren't going there.

Yeah exactly. As a small market team you probably have two options, draft away and try score a centerpiece to build around or attack mediocre Free Agents (doubt any big names would have gone to Philly) and be middle of the road. I think Hinkie has done a great job, he only needs 1 of his many 'boom-bust's to boom and they've got a serious team. I think the Philly fans are buying in, as well.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Yes most of those are unknowns but that's the route Philly has to go because the FA's weren't going there.

Won't this be their 4th year of tanking? They still only have prospects.

Off the top of my head, I couldnt name a guard other than Canaan on their roster.

For a guy who gives himself soapy massages about how cerebral he is, why hasnt he figured out that free agents go to teams with functional players? None have gone to play next to Cap Space.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Maybe they are hoping the Kentucky factor works in their favour. Three former Wildcats and Rondo is good friends with Gay.

Basketballers are strange creatures. Stupid s**t like that might actually make a difference.

Ja, hence the Calipari rumours I guess.

I wouldn't worry so much for the Kings so much on the personality side re. Rondo, but more on his fit with a post colossus in Cousins.

Yeah exactly. As a small market team you probably have two options, draft away and try score a centerpiece to build around or attack mediocre Free Agents (doubt any big names would have gone to Philly) and be middle of the road. I think Hinkie has done a great job, he only needs 1 of his many 'boom-bust's to boom and they've got a serious team. I think the Philly fans are buying in, as well.

Dunno if I'd classify Philly as a small market

Once upon a time they were one of the 'Big Five'.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

L2M4G If that happens I will bash Cubans head in with a basketball pump

Signature bet? Hahahaha

 

[stewie griffen]

Is it really any different to what OKC did?
Washington?
Warriors?
Utah?

Ok they've not gone to the lengths of Philly.

But at least they didnt spend top ten picks on Jimmer and Stauskas

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I wonder if D West can be had for a trade exception?

 

[Hipster Doofus]

So TRob ends up where?

Give him another chance in Sacramento, add to the blast from the past.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Is it really any different to what OKC did?
Washington?
Warriors?
Utah?

Ok they've not gone to the lengths of Philly.

But at least they didnt spend top ten picks on Jimmer and Stauskas

The aforementioned foursome all built teams though, and certainly in Washington and OKC's case started with the most important piece first. Part of that is luck, but it gives your fanbase something to identify with... "OK we're building around Wall/Durant".

Also OKC had Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden in the space of two years. Hell, the Clips drafted Eric Gordon, DAJ and Flake in the space of 12 months.

Take the Dubs - they drafted a point guard, a shooting guard and a forward with lottery picks, took another forward and a big guy with late picks, overpaid to sign a big man via FA, traded for a defensive behemoth and then cashed their chips to bring in the jack of all trades in Iggy. That took four years all told.

I'm not going to pretend that I know how the Philly story is going to work out, but it's certainly ventured into uncharted territory.

 

[Dez!]

Won't this be their 4th year of tanking? They still only have prospects.

They've tanked two years (13-14 and 14-15) so it's not as bad as you make out.

Off the top of my head, I couldnt name a guard other than Canaan on their roster.

Canaan, Wroten and they just acquired Stauskas. They are weak in the guard area of their roster but they can use some of their assets to acquire a guard with the picks, expiring contracts etc.

For a guy who gives himself soapy massages about how cerebral he is, why hasnt he figured out that free agents go to teams with functional players? None have gone to play next to Cap Space.

I'll offer another perspective, Dallas hasn't been able to get FA's to go to them and Cuban craps out money to win. Why should Hinkie throw crap contracts out to players that aren't going to get them anywhere but mediocre first round, second round exits at best? Why not try build through draft and develop a core that intrigues FA's to go there and take them to the next level?

 

[stewie griffen]

The aforementioned foursome all built teams though, and certainly in Washington and OKC's case started with the most important piece first. Part of that is luck, but it gives your fanbase something to identify with... "OK we're building around Wall/Durant".

Also OKC had Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden in the space of two years. Hell, the Clips drafted Eric Gordon, DAJ and Flake in the space of 12 months.

Take the Dubs - they drafted a point guard, a shooting guard and a forward with lottery picks, took another forward and a big guy with late picks, overpaid to sign a big man via FA, traded for a defensive behemoth and then cashed their chips to bring in the jack of all trades in Iggy. That took four years all told.

I'm not going to pretend that I know how the Philly story is going to work out, but it's certainly ventured into uncharted territory.

Oh indeed.

Phillys problem is to be bad at the wrong time, and to not have the ping pong balls fall their way in some respects.

If they end up with Wiggins or Parker or Russell.... are we still having this conversation

The Nerlens pick/trade i liked
The Embiid, well he was the clear best available pick, same with Okafor.

Once you put yourself into a position to get low draft picks you have to hit them, and if you have low picks in a great draft its much easier.

 

[Gus Poyet]

I'll offer another perspective, Dallas hasn't been able to get FA's to go to them and Cuban craps out money to win. Why should Hinkie throw crap contracts out to players that aren't going to get them anywhere but mediocre first round, second round exits at best? Why not try build through draft and develop a core that intrigues FA's to go there and take them to the next level?

Cuban won a title.

Love or hate him he's one of the most knowledgeable owners who never played the game. Knows more about the game than someone like Hinkie does.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I'll offer another perspective, Dallas hasn't been able to get FA's to go to them and Cuban craps out money to win. Why should Hinkie throw crap contracts out to players that aren't going to get them anywhere but mediocre first round, second round exits at best? Why not try build through draft and develop a core that intrigues FA's to go there and take them to the next level?

He isn't committed to a core. He traded the ROY 2 months into the following season. I think Wroten is a very talented but flawed player. He's their best scorer, and there was noise he would be moved late last season. He's drafted 2 players who would miss their first season. One will miss a 2nd. Their 3 best prospects all play the same position essentially. What are the odds at least one of this 'core' will be gone in 2 years. $1.01. His only commitment is to have the most 'assets' at any given time, and will keep flipping them around until his owner starts asking for actual results.

 

[stewie griffen]

Lets no use MCW as an example of anything

He's ROY in one of the worst draft seasons in living memory

I mean Big Mac Bennett went Number 1 ffs

 

[Gus Poyet]

The bottom like is Hinkie hasn't actually built anything yet. Drafting the best player available at your pick when you're tanking does not mean you're building anything workable.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

And more on Cuban. He had owned a team for 11 years, and they constantly failed in the playoffs. He could have torn it all down on numerous occasions. Look at his moved.

Gave a 30 year old Marion a 5 year contract. Traded for a 28 year old Tyson Chandler. Traded for a 34 year old Jason Kidd. Kept giving contracts to Nowitzki and Terry. He showed a clear commitment to winning, and putting a functional basketball team out there. He was willing to be judged on his win total at the end of the year.

Hinkie only points to 'assets', draft picks and potential.

He's like the dude who sits in his room and tells his mates he could get any girl he wanted if he tried hard enough.

 

[Dez!]

He isn't committed to a core. He traded the ROY 2 months into the following season. I think Wroten is a very talented but flawed player. He's their best scorer, and there was noise he would be moved late last season. He's drafted 2 players who would miss their first season. One will miss a 2nd. Their 3 best prospects all play the same position essentially. What are the odds at least one of this 'core' will be gone in 2 years. $1.01. His only commitment is to have the most 'assets' at any given time, and will keep flipping them around until his owner starts asking for actual results.

You're basing this on nothing.

MCW is a garbage player and him winning ROTY is a reflection of just how s**t that draft class was.

You keep saying Embiid will miss a second season, that's an unknown at this point.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Lets no use MCW as an example of anything

He's ROY in one of the worst draft seasons in living memory

I mean Big Mac Bennett went Number 1 ffs

A point guard who can do what he does (whilst acknowledging all his shortcomings) was worth a longer look than a season and a half. Look at Payton and Nash's first seasons.

As soon as he was presented with another asset, he got rid of him. Core building be damned. Hinkie also delayed having to be judged by another year or 2.

Hinkie is the greatest salesman in the NBA. Best of luck to him; I'd love his job at his pay.