Tony Abbott just doesn't ******* get it

[Maggie5]

Forgot to add that during this time she hasn't registered as unemployed and lived off savings as was hopefully she would get a job. So not in the statistics of people looking for work.
I wonder how many others are in this group.

 

[Power Raid]

This is all about creating a slave wage/below market rate job pool, much like the US does with the prison system, to out compete the public sector and other providers of low skilled labor in the hope of using a jobs crisis to justify changing worker protections therefore depressing the price of labor.

If they follow up with expanding work for the doles remit, re programs available and toughening requirements, such as distance of commute, then such an aim will have been confirmed.

They are starting to stray from dangerous, to downright villainous.

Who knows, it might just be the catalyst to help some people find their opportunity in life.

Work is great and enjoyable. Why shouldn't everyone be given a chance to participate?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Who knows, it might just be the catalyst to help some people find their opportunity in life.

Work is great and enjoyable. Why shouldn't everyone be given a chance to participate?

Increasing work for the dole participation hurts low skilled workers and makes it harder for those with pre-existing skills that are job seeking actually find jobs.

Not surprised you support this. If it's hair brained and counterproductive, expect power raid to get on board.

 

[RonSon]

It's kind of hard to look for work when you're working I would have thought.

 

[Maggie5]

Who knows, it might just be the catalyst to help some people find their opportunity in life.

Work is great and enjoyable. Why shouldn't everyone be given a chance to participate?

All very admirable but where are the jobs? How many unemployed people do you really know?
I am so glad I am not looking for a job, sending out multiple applications and you don't even get a response to say they have received it let alone you haven't been successful. Continually being told, "no vacancies" sorry. Demoralising.
Don't get sucked in by all this 'bludgers' talk. I agree that there may be a large number out there that maybe like this but what opportunities are really out there.
I get really angry with the 'haves' taking aim at the 'have nots'. Must be nice from up there looking down.

 

[Power Raid]

All very admirable but where are the jobs? How many unemployed people do you really know?
I am so glad I am not looking for a job, sending out multiple applications and you don't even get a response to say they have received it let alone you haven't been successful. Continually being told, "no vacancies" sorry. Demoralising.
Don't get sucked in by all this 'bludgers' talk. I agree that there may be a large number out there that maybe like this but what opportunities are really out there.
I get really angry with the 'haves' taking aim at the 'have nots'. Must be nice from up there looking down.

1) Admirable yes but I don't believe that governments create jobs. Rather great Australians (and others) create jobs for their fellow great Australians. To achieve this, a good environment for investment and job creation needs to be created and maintained.

We by enlarge have this but green tape and red tape non-sense (as a result of government trying to create wok) has held job creation back.

We also have another big problem and that is the long term unemployed. The reality is many want to work but can't find it simple because they don't know how, to risky under OH&S (no one wants to hire an accident waiting to happen) or simply aren't capable of generating a return greater than the minimum wage. So what do we do? It is a tough problem but I don't think the status quo or giving up on them is sensible.

2) I know quite a few unemployed through my work at a men's shelter. Other than that, I can only draw upon my life's experience of growing up in a busted arse state during a recession we had to have. For me, although it was a tough period I was grateful Paul Keating was changing Australia for the better. Based on his reforms we have enjoyed 20+years of growth and all of us have prospered except a few. We now need to reform our social welfare and industrial relations to ensure that prosperity is enjoyed by those currently being left behind.

3) I know your friend keeps sending out CVs without success and yes that would be demoralizing. Can I suggest stopping and thinking about what works and doesn't work? Simple things like changing your house address (yes, the suburb you live in matters), using expensive textured paper (so your CV stands out) and telling people what you have achieved rather than what you have done is important. At the interview, get the interviewer relaxed, in a good mood and interested. You have 10 minutes to get the job, so come in with energy and purpose.

4) I don't believe their is bludger or bad workers just bad systems and bad leaders. That said, the more people do the more they feel like doing. The less opportunity they have, the less they feel like doing and even turn negative mentalities as they give up.

Our biggest problem is our IR and welfare systems strip people of hope and opportunity.

5) I see this as a hand up not a hand out. By doing so, it is about getting people up on their feet and less concerned with feeling like others are looking down at them. Hopefully it addresses that concern too.

 

[Power Raid]

Increasing work for the dole participation hurts low skilled workers and makes it harder for those with pre-existing skills that are job seeking actually find jobs.

Not surprised you support this. If it's hair brained and counterproductive, expect power raid to get on board.

in addition to the response to Maggie..........

I don't support this policy, but I am not against it. why? I like the idea of giving people the opportunity to get back in the work force (even if it means subsidised wages by the govt) but I also don't think this will work without addressing both the social welfare and industrial relations at the same time.


it doesn't surprise me you want to keep people down with now hope. You seem to feel good having people beneath you. It is some kind of sick pleasure.

Do you not feel an ounce of compassion though? How can you feel good about yourself whilst stripping people of opportunity and relegating them to the waste basket of no hope?

I guess for you it is all about the politics and self-righteousness.


Lastly who knows, we might be able to bring in more refugees if we can get this policy right. After all, the intake would be faster as it is about how quickly we can get people of welfare, being self sufficient and becoming a success in their lives.

 

[Power Raid]

It's kind of hard to look for work when you're working I would have thought.

It is easier to get a job when you have a job

it is a fact

 

[RonSon]

It is easier to get a job when you have a job

it is a fact

Is it easier to get a job when you are being forced to do unskilled labour for five hours at less than minimum wage a day?

 

[Power Raid]

Is it easier to get a job when you are being forced to do unskilled labour for five hours at less than minimum wage a day?

Try and focus here.....

I think I said, "It is easier to get a job when you have a job".

That is the fact



the unskilled labour, the subsidised wages or low wages is irrelevant. Employers look at the fact you get up, brush your hair, turn up, smile and that you show interest in their job opportunity by applying.

This is about getting people out of a rut, participating and on the path to success. This is not about finding a $1m CEO position on day 1.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

<rambling derangement>

Predictable response.

This doesn't provide hope for workers, in fact it hurts them as it is both a threat to the gainfully employed, likewise makes it more difficult for those with skills to find work. It's exploitation, pure and simple, which is probably why you actually support it.

 

[Power Raid]

Predictable response.

This doesn't provide hope for workers, in fact it hurts them as it is both a threat to the gainfully employed, likewise makes it more difficult for those with skills to find work. It's exploitation, pure and simple, which is probably why you actually support it.

Like RonSon you seem to have a comprehension issue, as I don't support the policy but I do support wanting to give people the opportunity to work.

our current social welfare and industrial relations has caused a long term structural problem for some people and have denied them opportunity to participate. Paul Keating's changes in the 90s have helped so many; we need another brave person like Paul to do the same and tackle this emotive area of politics.

 

[RonSon]

Try and focus here.....
I think I said, "It is easier to get a job when you have a job".
That is the fact

Try to be less condescending here.

And what I was alluding to was that these are not jobs. I would like to see the figures for where WFTD has already been rolled out as to whether it actually helps people, especially the long time unemployed get full time employment.

the unskilled labour, the subsidised wages or low wages is irrelevant.

I'm wondering what the people that were employed doing this unskilled labour will do for work now that work for the dole participants will be doing it.

 

[Maggie5]

1) Admirable yes but I don't believe that governments create jobs. Rather great Australians (and others) create jobs for their fellow great Australians. To achieve this, a good environment for investment and job creation needs to be created and maintained.

We by enlarge have this but green tape and red tape non-sense (as a result of government trying to create wok) has held job creation back.

We also have another big problem and that is the long term unemployed. The reality is many want to work but can't find it simple because they don't know how, to risky under OH&S (no one wants to hire an accident waiting to happen) or simply aren't capable of generating a return greater than the minimum wage. So what do we do? It is a tough problem but I don't think the status quo or giving up on them is sensible.

2) I know quite a few unemployed through my work at a men's shelter. Other than that, I can only draw upon my life's experience of growing up in a busted arse state during a recession we had to have. For me, although it was a tough period I was grateful Paul Keating was changing Australia for the better. Based on his reforms we have enjoyed 20+years of growth and all of us have prospered except a few. We now need to reform our social welfare and industrial relations to ensure that prosperity is enjoyed by those currently being left behind.

3) I know your friend keeps sending out CVs without success and yes that would be demoralizing. Can I suggest stopping and thinking about what works and doesn't work? Simple things like changing your house address (yes, the suburb you live in matters), using expensive textured paper (so your CV stands out) and telling people what you have achieved rather than what you have done is important. At the interview, get the interviewer relaxed, in a good mood and interested. You have 10 minutes to get the job, so come in with energy and purpose.

4) I don't believe their is bludger or bad workers just bad systems and bad leaders. That said, the more people do the more they feel like doing. The less opportunity they have, the less they feel like doing and even turn negative mentalities as they give up.

Our biggest problem is our IR and welfare systems strip people of hope and opportunity.

5) I see this as a hand up not a hand out. By doing so, it is about getting people up on their feet and less concerned with feeling like others are looking down at them. Hopefully it addresses that concern too.

PR, so many words - Government can create the environment for jobs, agree, but this government hasn't! They have looked after the companies but I don't see any company hiring when they can use 457 visas.And I call BS about red/green tape. I am really looking forward to how well this works and jobs crated by easing of regulations.

Re: your point 2, maybe you should get out a bit more and associate with families, young people, and those over 50. Try some social groups, sporting clubs, or school parent's group. You may get another point of view.

Re: your point 3. I feel that you are talking to someone that hasn't been in the workforce before. Try that has been in the workforce for over 45 years, teacher trained and worked in adult education. Talk of textured paper? Please, haven't you heard of email?

Biggest problem is of those that are comfortable, have a job and are nice and secure and have no idea about others. You would do well in the current government. You really do need to get out in the real world.

 

[Maggie5]

in addition to the response to Maggie..........

I don't support this policy, but I am not against it. why? I like the idea of giving people the opportunity to get back in the work force (even if it means subsidised wages by the govt) but I also don't think this will work without addressing both the social welfare and industrial relations at the same time.


it doesn't surprise me you want to keep people down with now hope. You seem to feel good having people beneath you. It is some kind of sick pleasure.

Do you not feel an ounce of compassion though? How can you feel good about yourself whilst stripping people of opportunity and relegating them to the waste basket of no hope?

I guess for you it is all about the politics and self-righteousness.


Lastly who knows, we might be able to bring in more refugees if we can get this policy right. After all, the intake would be faster as it is about how quickly we can get people of welfare, being self sufficient and becoming a success in their lives.

I find your comments offensive and I in fact didn't want to say it but I thought that your views seem to come from a superior position.

I am extremely happy when people are in full employment or in education but you keep talking about opportunities as if they appear from thin air. Where are these opportunities? This is what I am asking. Sorry if I live in the real world and don't have an ivory tower.

 

[Power Raid]

Try to be less condescending here.

And what I was alluding to was that these are not jobs. I would like to see the figures for where WFTD has already been rolled out as to whether it actually helps people, especially the long time unemployed get full time employment.




I'm wondering what the people that were employed doing this unskilled labour will do for work now that work for the dole participants will be doing it.

I honestly believe it is not hard to find work if you are surrounded by opportunity.

but it is extremely hard to find work if you have been out of work for quite some time, live in a suburb where there is no work, a suburb relegated to failure due to perception, live in a place where your neighbours can't offer each other opportunities and worse just sitting on a couch, losing energy and confidence and being surrounded by others in a similar predicament and normalising the situation.

This work for the dole will probably fail but it achieve one thing and that is getting people out of environment and open to new opportunities.

Personally, I think we should have work for the pension. Not because I want to extract value from pensioners rather I see they are still valuable members of the community and should be treated better than putting them out to pasture. Obviously the nature of the work would be different and may be even the chinese model where people go and look after a park, sing or paint in a park etc.

If we think of work as enjoyable, rewarding, positive and an important part of being in a society; then suddenly work for the dole is not a punishment rather a key to belonging!

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Like RonSon you seem to have a comprehension issue, as I don't support the policy but I do support wanting to give people the opportunity to work.

our current social welfare and industrial relations has caused a long term structural problem for some people and have denied them opportunity to participate. Paul Keating's changes in the 90s have helped so many; we need another brave person like Paul to do the same and tackle this emotive area of politics.

Well it isn't the current government. They are too busy making it harder to become educated, trained and increasing unemployment.

 

[Power Raid]

Predictable response.

This doesn't provide hope for workers, in fact it hurts them as it is both a threat to the gainfully employed, likewise makes it more difficult for those with skills to find work. It's exploitation, pure and simple, which is probably why you actually support it.

flip it the other way. How do you see anything positive coming from continuing to deny people the right and the opportunity to work?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

If we think of work as enjoyable, rewarding, positive and an important part of being in a society; then suddenly work for the dole is not a punishment rather a key to belonging!

Even when a huge increase in cut price labor may lead to job losses, or when it makes it hard for skilled newly unemployed, or graduates to find work?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

flip it the other way. How do you see anything positive coming from continuing to deny people the right and the opportunity to work?

Which is what this policy does.

 

[Power Raid]

Which is what this policy does.

typical, no ideas. it is easy being an arm chair quarter back but that doesn't help anyone.

oh, and who said anything about this policy. the problem is how to help the long term unemployed and the people denied of opportunity but all you can see is the politics.

it is so sad when some of the brightest guys like yourself refuse to offer anything positive.

 

[Power Raid]

Even when a huge increase in cut price labor may lead to job losses, or when it makes it hard for skilled newly unemployed, or graduates to find work?

as I said previously, to work this needs an overhaul of our industrial relations, red tape and green tape. it may even require an overhaul of our education system too.

a change to the welfare system alone is doomed to failure.

 

[Power Raid]

Well it isn't the current government. They are too busy making it harder to become educated, trained and increasing unemployment.

rubbish

you only pay back your HECS when you come out the other side a success and earning good $s.

 

[Power Raid]

I find your comments offensive and I in fact didn't want to say it but I thought that your views seem to come from a superior position.

I am extremely happy when people are in full employment or in education but you keep talking about opportunities as if they appear from thin air. Where are these opportunities? This is what I am asking. Sorry if I live in the real world and don't have an ivory tower.

I saw more opportunities in Blackwood SA than I did see in Parafield. I saw more opportunities in Sydney and Melbourne than Adelaide. I saw more opportunities in Asia and the US than I saw in Oz and then saw more opportunities in West Perth than anywhere else in the world.

The point is opportunity is not only a place but a function of who surrounds you. I personally believe any individual is limited and almost useless. but get together a group of energetic and positive people and suddenly anything is possible.

Getting people up and about, creating a market, sharing ideas etc leads to opportunity. It doesn't come from thin air; rather it comes from ideas, talking, refining and acting.

We place too much value on education in this nation and too little on "opportunity". Yet if anything is going to set people and a society free, it is not wealth or education but opportunity!



Oh and I don't look down from my ivory tower, rather just get frustrated by anyone who gets in the way of creating opportunity. I want everyone to be their own success and be happy with their opportunity.

 

[Maggie5]

I saw more opportunities in Blackwood SA than I did see in Parafield. I saw more opportunities in Sydney and Melbourne than Adelaide. I saw more opportunities in Asia and the US than I saw in Oz and then saw more opportunities in West Perth than anywhere else in the world.

The point is opportunity is not only a place but a function of who surrounds you. I personally believe any individual is limited and almost useless. but get together a group of energetic and positive people and suddenly anything is possible.

Getting people up and about, creating a market, sharing ideas etc leads to opportunity. It doesn't come from thin air; rather it comes from ideas, talking, refining and acting.

We place too much value on education in this nation and too little on "opportunity". Yet if anything is going to set people and a society free, it is not wealth or education but opportunity!



Oh and I don't look down from my ivory tower, rather just get frustrated by anyone who gets in the way of creating opportunity. I want everyone to be their own success and be happy with their opportunity.

When I wrote, "where are these opportunities", I didn't mean place and not sure why you took it as such.
I am over talking about this and immigration with you. You should write a book with so much knowledge.