Strategy What are we going to do about centre half forward?

[xtatik222k]

Nothing is more painful for me than losing the game's best (ever?) player, but I know what you feel about Menzel. Just a waste of talent that Geelong, and the AFL, is deprived of seeing.

The reason it upset me more is that we had Gary for a good few years before he left. At least we got two premierships from him and got to enjoy him tearing other teams apart wearing the blue and white. We never got to really see enough of Dan. That's what made it so bad.

 

[Cattery]

Simpson in, rotate McIntosh and Blicavs through CHF.

Far from ideal but the best we can come up with IMO given that we don't have a true CHF, pretty sure none of Kersten, Brown or Walker are up to the task.

 

[meto]

Simpson in, rotate McIntosh and Blicavs through CHF.

Far from ideal but the best we can come up with IMO given that we don't have a true CHF, pretty sure none of Kersten, Brown or Walker are up to the task.

We need to buy one in, Vardy is to injury prone and has done about as much as the other three, not much.

Out them all Walker is the only one big enough and tough enough to stand the rigors of senior AFL keypost footy. If he's brought in I don't want to see him thrown into the ruck because a ruck is rested etc, he needs a fair chance to stand at CHF for a number of games.
Otherwise trade him for someone we'll play.

 

[OzeSparky]

We need to buy one in, Vardy is to injury prone and has done about as much as the other three, not much.

Out them all Walker is the only one big enough and tough enough to stand the rigors of senior AFL keypost footy. If he's brought in I don't want to see him thrown into the ruck because a ruck is rested etc, he needs a fair chance to stand at CHF for a number of games.
Otherwise trade him for someone we'll play.

casboult has turned it on this year, I think walker could be our Casboult

 

[meto]

casboult has turned it on this year, I think walker could be our Casboult

Well, yes I think you're right, among the best again in the 2's but thrown into the ruck after Simo went down last week. What we need is for him to come into the seniors where we have 2 ruckman with the set expectation that he's there as the CHF and nothing other.

I thought a couple of his games were good 11-12 possessions and a couple of goals, I mean that's about double what Kersten's giving at the moment, what's wrong with that For Pete's Sake?
With only the odd game here and there he acquitted himself quite well I thought. Why people instantly compare him with an experienced senior like Tom Hawkins and then assumed Kersten was better, I dunno!
After all his recent games what Kersten's done is prove he's no better, in fact he's going at about half Walkers' output, he's actually inferior.
I think we missed our chance with Walker this year for more fancied names that haven't delivered.

 

[Daniel McL]

For this year at least I would like to see us try 3 main forwards, like a Hawkins, Walker/Brown & Kersten. Because even if Walker/Brown doesn't do great, as long as he kicks 1-2 goals, he will definitely help Kersten because then Kersten will get the 3rd defender and be freed up more & hopefully get 1-3 goals, then Hawkins his usual 1-4 goals & I would be happy.

If not Walker or Brown in, I would perhaps like to see, when he is not back-up rucking, Blicavs go up forward as CHF because he can run all day, he showed a few weeks ago in the back line he can take some good overhead marks, hopefully he can crash packs a bit more but that will come with time. Then Kersten I think should be our 3rd forward (at best).

Everything goes according to plan next year and we'll see:
-Vardy & Menzel get a few goes during the NAB Challenge to get (kind of) used to real footy again.
-Menzel will be super fit & strong so if he plays all NAB Challenge matches, upping his match time from a half, then 3 quarters, then a full match, he could start in the AFL team Round 1 (obviously as SUB)
-Vardy should also be stronger by the time pre-season comes around and he too could be straight in AFL side round 1 as CHF.
-Though we may want to be very conservative & not start those 2 against Hawthorn first AFL game back so we may wait until Round 2 then.
-Then by Round 5-10, Vardy & Menzel will be used to the rigours of footy again & start to get even more and more confidence back.
-All of a sudden (this is very optimistic I know) by Round 10 onwards we could have a great forward line of Hawkins FF, Vardy CHF, Kersten & Menzel HFF, and maybe even McCarthy in the FP if he is injury free.

Sadly we won't see that until next year, so hopefully we can figure out a more effective forward plan soon going into the finals.

 

[00VicWard001]

casboult has turned it on this year, I think walker could be our Casboult

I read that Casbolt hasn't agreed to a contract yet for 2015.

Forget Frawley and his 5 years at 600k, I would rather see Casbolt and his vice hands at centre half forward. Imagine Taylor and Rivers plucking opposition kicks and then kicking back up the ground to Levi who flicks it to Mots who lands it on the big Hawk's chest in the goal square?

F*ck me, we'd be the goddamn contested marking team of the century!

 

[vinum coupe]

I read that Casbolt hasn't agreed to a contract yet for 2015.

Forget Frawley and his 5 years at 600k, I would rather see Casbolt and his vice hands at centre half forward. Imagine Taylor and Rivers plucking opposition kicks and then kicking back up the ground to Levi who flicks it to Mots who lands it on the big Hawk's chest in the goal square?

F*ck me, we'd be the goddamn contested marking team of the century!

I close my eyes when Walker kicks for goal. I'd have to leave the room when Casbolt has a shot.

 

[meto]

I close my eyes when Walker kicks for goal. I'd have to leave the room when Casbolt has a shot.

Didn't the guy say Mots to Hawkins from Casbolt?....What we've missed and desparately need is a big CHF who'll fly for marks and hit the packs hard.
If he achieved that much I'd ignore the waywards,..... ask yourself how gun barrel straight is Vardy??
And how many games before his next injury?

Casbolt is one friggin monster, if available I'd open the cheque book and he wouldn't cost a minter either.

 

[vinum coupe]

Didn't the guy say Mots to Hawkins from Casbolt?....What we've missed and desparately need is a big CHF who'll fly for marks and hit the packs hard.
If he achieved that much I'd ignore the waywards,..... ask yourself how gun barrel straight is Vardy??
And how many games before his next injury?

Casbolt is one friggin monster, if available I'd open the cheque book and he wouldn't cost a mint either.

Vardy is a good kick.

Could end up being a dead eye dick.
Casbolt takes his most important marks inside the 50. And then shanks them.

 

[meto]

Vardy is a good kick.

Could end up being a dead eye dick.
Casbolt takes his most important marks inside the 50. And then shanks them.

Blimey that's stretch, have you actually seen enough of him yet to even make that assertion? If and when he gets back on the park then I'II have some idea and not before.
Casbolt is a pack breaker and a powerful mark, that's why I'd want him.

 

[Scottland2007]

For this year at least I would like to see us try 3 main forwards, like a Hawkins, Walker/Brown & Kersten. Because even if Walker/Brown doesn't do great, as long as he kicks 1-2 goals, he will definitely help Kersten because then Kersten will get the 3rd defender and be freed up more & hopefully get 1-3 goals, then Hawkins his usual 1-4 goals & I would be happy.

If not Walker or Brown in, I would perhaps like to see, when he is not back-up rucking, Blicavs go up forward as CHF because he can run all day, he showed a few weeks ago in the back line he can take some good overhead marks, hopefully he can crash packs a bit more but that will come with time. Then Kersten I think should be our 3rd forward (at best).

Everything goes according to plan next year and we'll see:
-Vardy & Menzel get a few goes during the NAB Challenge to get (kind of) used to real footy again.
-Menzel will be super fit & strong so if he plays all NAB Challenge matches, upping his match time from a half, then 3 quarters, then a full match, he could start in the AFL team Round 1 (obviously as SUB)
-Vardy should also be stronger by the time pre-season comes around and he too could be straight in AFL side round 1 as CHF.
-Though we may want to be very conservative & not start those 2 against Hawthorn first AFL game back so we may wait until Round 2 then.
-Then by Round 5-10, Vardy & Menzel will be used to the rigours of footy again & start to get even more and more confidence back.
-All of a sudden (this is very optimistic I know) by Round 10 onwards we could have a great forward line of Hawkins FF, Vardy CHF, Kersten & Menzel HFF, and maybe even McCarthy in the FP if he is injury free.

Sadly we won't see that until next year, so hopefully we can figure out a more effective forward plan soon going into the finals.

Not to be smart but how is Menzel going to be super fit and super strong? He hasn't really played footy for 3 years and how fit can you get whilst coming from a knee reco? Do you know something we don't? I don't mean to sound like a douche but, do you know something we don't?

 

[00VicWard001]

Didn't the guy say Mots to Hawkins from Casbolt?....What we've missed and desparately need is a big CHF who'll fly for marks and hit the packs hard.
If he achieved that much I'd ignore the waywards,..... ask yourself how gun barrel straight is Vardy??
And how many games before his next injury?

Casbolt is one friggin monster, if available I'd open the cheque book and he wouldn't cost a minter either.

And he's got that mongrel about him. He's big, strong and aggressive and every time he goes for a mark he seems to grab it or at least contest. He doesn't need to kick goals. He needs to draw a good defender and take that mark 60%+ of time. Then Hawk will have a paddock in front of him to run into.

 

[00VicWard001]

would you inquire about Tyrone Vickery next summer?
24 yr old who has played 80 games, was a top 10 draft pick in 08 but looks far from it at this stage of his career.

I like Vickery actually. He has unfulfilled talent, he is aggressive (clearly), and also appears to have some intelligence (judging by the way he spoke after the Tribunal).

We've had plenty of players do dumb things in Geelong. The culture is one where the team is ultimately put first. A new opportunity for someone like Vickery at the Cats may be mutually beneficial.

 

[meto]

And he's got that mongrel about him. He's big, strong and aggressive and every time he goes for a mark he seems to grab it or at least contest. He doesn't need to kick goals. He needs to draw a good defender and take that mark 60%+ of time. Then Hawk will have a paddock in front of him to run into.

Draw a defender alright, one thing he does do is send alarm bells ringing among the defensive unit!
He's only just matured and saw tough times at Carlton, reckon he'd revel in the opportunity to play at KP for reasonable money!
I can see him as an absolute weapon if we got him.

 

[hamG]

I read that Casbolt hasn't agreed to a contract yet for 2015.

Forget Frawley and his 5 years at 600k, I would rather see Casbolt and his vice hands at centre half forward. Imagine Taylor and Rivers plucking opposition kicks and then kicking back up the ground to Levi who flicks it to Mots who lands it on the big Hawk's chest in the goal square?

F*ck me, we'd be the goddamn contested marking team of the century!

This season Casboult is averaging 0.9 goals per game. Are we talking about the same player here? The only reason he gets a game is because Carlton literally have no key forwards. If you want a guy who can mark but can't play we'll bring back Matty McCarthy.

 

[meto]

This season Casboult is averaging 0.9 goals per game. Are we talking about the same player here? The only reason he gets a game is because Carlton literally have no key forwards. If you want a guy who can mark but can't play we'll bring back Matty McCarthy.

Depends how he's used, and what's expected from him.
Micks' had him in, out and everwhere this year, so a goal a game is pretty good, has played a couple of beauties though.

 

[Heckler]

I think the tactic was evident the last 2 weeks against Norf and Freo.
One of the key backs slips forward on the opposite side of play unmarked to snag a goal.
A la Mackie, Harry, Lonners and Rivers.

Next year we both draft and trade for one.
Casbolt and Vickery will cost a packet.
I think Jack Watts would thrive at a good club and he could be a steal.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Blimey that's stretch, have you actually seen enough of him yet to even make that assertion? If and when he gets back on the park then I'II have some idea and not before.
Casbolt is a pack breaker and a powerful mark, that's why I'd want him.

He kicked 11.2 last season, and every time he kicked for goal he looked like a bloke who would keep kicking 11.2; and from long distance, too.

 

[meto]

He kicked 11.2 last season, and every time he kicked for goal he looked like a bloke who would keep kicking 11.2; and from long distance, too.

Fair enough, great stats, as you know I appreciate stats, it's consistency and availability with Vardy though, can't kick'em if he's not out there!
Just watching a film about a grizzly bear, Casbolt comes to mind.

 

[Rankin_1925]

I think Jack Watts would thrive at a good club and he could be a steal.

We already have one APS private school project who promises much more than he delivers (Smedts). Not sure we need to add another to the mix...

 

[Vdubs]

BEN GRIFFITHS.
Available.
Tall.
Skilled
Great kick.
Very Good mark.

 

[Live in hope]

suggestions for CHF, in order of (my) preference
Plan 1. Walker
why . Fit (in fact, very fit). Big advantage over Kersten on this.
Takes contested marks
Bit of mongrel
Flexible - could swap with Taylor, for pinch hits.

Kersten is quicker, sure, but only needs a quickish half back to shut him down. Kersten is obviously more accurate, but still misses goals he should get (like shot from 25-30 out, slight angle against north). Sure, Kersten can kick from 50, but so can Walker.
Kersten is perhaps a better long term bet, but not ready now and will be a liability in the finals.

Plan 2. Brown. Fitter and goal smarts. The flexibility to swap with a defender also has in front of Kersten
Why
Advantage of both plan A and B - both are at a stage that they could/should prove their worth. If have 3-4 games and aren't reasonable/good in 2-3 games, then we won't lose sleep if they go at year end.

PLan C (wacky races)

Bews. Yep, I mean son of Rat.

Why
Has speed, big body, mongrel, can kick, can kick goals. Not a key position player and not a contested mark, but could contest and defintely do the lead up and back. But the flexibility to rotate (through CHF, HF, HB, a tag), provide defensive tackle pressure on forward half, run in hard at centre bounces. could be pretty unsettling and cause match up problems. Also give an option if we are being flogged by a small forward. Won't happen of course, but stranger/crazier left field moves have worked in finals.

 

[Daniel McL]

Not to be smart but how is Menzel going to be super fit and super strong? He hasn't really played footy for 3 years and how fit can you get whilst coming from a knee reco? Do you know something we don't? I don't mean to sound like a douche but, do you know something we don't?

No that's okay. Well I know for a few weeks now Menzel has been doing work in the gym & will continue to do gym work all up until pre-season, then he should have a full pre-season making him very fit while also doing the usual gym work over pre-season. They have been talking about it in interviews a while ago when we heard about the tendonitis keeping him out of this year.

 

[nowhereneargeelong]

I think the tactic was evident the last 2 weeks against Norf and Freo.
One of the key backs slips forward on the opposite side of play unmarked to snag a goal.
A la Mackie, Harry, Lonners and Rivers.

Next year we both draft and trade for one.
Casbolt and Vickery will cost a packet.
I think Jack Watts would thrive at a good club and he could be a steal.

Jack Watts is a nice guy and a very skilled footballer. but, put simply, he is soft.

This won't change. He is not key forward material.

He is in limbo.