Is the hip and shoulder dead?

[Hawk-in-syd]

It's not dead, its just harder to do without any head high contact. It was the same rule last year and we still see them.
If maxwell bent his knee so he was 2cm lower or got him in the shoulder he'd be fine.

If you going for a shirtfront you have to bend the knees and go in low. Makes the person laying the hip and shoulder properly more courageous than in the past as you are more likely to get hurt yourself.

The games not softer just different.

 

[Zvim]

Hip and shoulder was primarily used to bump players off the ball, typically side by side. It was then used as a weapon to cause damage as other forms of striking started to gain heavy penalties for.

There is nothing wrong with the hip and shoulder to knock your opponent out of the play, when you are charging an opponent and choose to hip and shoulder instead of strike then it is long dead in terms of disguising it as anything other than a strike.

I have no problem with it being banned from being used as a weapon but retained to be used how it was intended to be used, just to push players off the ball. It really takes no courage to run at speed and charge into someone not expecting contact, you are prepared, they have their eyes on the ball. At the speed the game is played at now it can just inflict a lot of damage.

 

[Lazyboy]

Why? Loads of players got busted for high hip and shoulders last year. It didn't die then. WC's own Beau Waters did (twice recently I think actually). He still lays out hip and shoulders, but he has gotten better at doing them legally. This is all it requires, further effort to make it legal and less likely to break the opposition player.

I think you are way too Collingwood obsessed if you think this one incident will kill it.

A 3 week whack on the chops after a text book hip and shoulder by Maxwell will have plenty of players thinking, what a great hit, text book...

Days later after even the ump called play on he cops 3 weeks, players wont be able to afford the risk in today game, simple.. AFL = going soft.

 

[roguless54]

The shirt front hit is dead and buried, that was pretty obviously as soon as Rob Murphy got 2 weeks for it last year and is reinforced by the AFL yet again.

The hip and shoulder will survive only with a written invitation from the match day umpire and a written apology prepared by said player for the MRP.

 

[Wallace]

The way I see it a player gets in trouble when they shirtfront another player as opposed to a hip and shoulder. My way of differentiating between the two is that a player is guilty of shirtfronting when they:

(1) hit another player with the hip and shoulder in the front and especially around the head when the player is bending over or reaching for the ball; and

(2) run past the football to do it.

Maxwell looks to have done both of these things.

I dont have a problem with suspending players guilty of this type of play.

Genuinely tough footballers dont run past the ball to hit a bloke going for the ball, they brave the unknown and grab it first.

 

[Pessimistic]

it was totally unneccesary in that passage of play, That it was in the NAB cup and the pies were well in control makes it even more stupid.

Same with the hawks player rubbed out in last years NAB Cup

 

[greennick]

A 3 week whack on the chops after a text book hip and shoulder by Maxwell will have plenty of players thinking, what a great hit, text book...

Days later after even the ump called play on he cops 3 weeks, players wont be able to afford the risk in today game, simple.. AFL = going soft.

A textbook hit isn't head high and won't break a player's jaw!

What was so "textbook" about it?

He broke a guy's jaw. Clearly he ****ed up and (allegedly) accidentally got him too high. Clearly that is no longer textbook.

A textbook bump will lay the player out, without hitting him high, but with him able to at least play next week, preferably able to play as soon as he can get his sorry arse up.

 

[Carlton06]

What would of maxwell of gotten if he had no no past offences?

 

[Juddy88]

What would of maxwell of gotten if he had no no past offences?

2 weeks.

 

[StonesThrow]

Genuinely tough footballers dont run past the ball to hit a bloke going for the ball, they brave the unknown and grab it first.

I agree with this 100%

I know most of you will argue that if he did grab it he would have just went over the boundary and that this was actually the smartest thing to do (shepard him off the ball not break his jaw). But we all know Maxwell would have done the same thing no matter where they were on the ground.

To all you old and jaded keyboard warriors, just because there aren't 15 people going up for contested marks anymore doesn't mean there isn't any tough stuff happening. First game game I watched this year I saw one of our players run head first into a contest and get layed out accidently(must have been Dangerfield. coverage was so poor). Yes the game is faster and there are less 5 on 5 marking contests, but you sure as hell still have to be tough as nails to play it.

 

[Lawsy]

The way I see it a player gets in trouble when they shirtfront another player as opposed to a hip and shoulder. My way of differentiating between the two is that a player is guilty of shirtfronting when they:

(1) hit another player with the hip and shoulder in the front and especially around the head when the player is bending over or reaching for the ball; and

(2) run past the football to do it.

Maxwell looks to have done both of these things.

I dont have a problem with suspending players guilty of this type of play.

Genuinely tough footballers dont run past the ball to hit a bloke going for the ball, they brave the unknown and grab it first.

I totally agree with Wallace on this...if the ball is there to be won, then make a contest. Don't line the guy up and take him out without any intention of winning the football, which is exactly what Maxwell did.

The Hip and Shoulder still has a huge place in the game, particularly in close proximity contests or where both players are acknowlegingly making contact, but not it the above context....it never has really, except for the WOW factor and tough guy image it portrays.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

to pies are fighting the MRP thursday i think to keep the game in tact.

if max goes then i doubt the hip and shoulder will be seen again.

that was the hardest head-high bump ever, you can see it hit the eagle's face. accidental, but still hti him high. a hit liek that has always been suspendable, particularly in the last 10 yrs with better video.

it should be 1 week, not 3

 

[Jay-Z]

it should be 1 week, not 3

Agree with this. It was a good bump, he didn't throw the elbow out or anything and the only reason I think he should be suspended is that he got the guy in the head. If he hadn't have made high contact it would have been a case of "good hit...end of story"

 

[Power King]

The hip and shoulder would not be debated as 'dying' if footballers didn't make head-high contact whilst performing it.

I love it as much as the next person, but you need to have skill (like every other part of footy) in order to execute it, otherwise you're just barraging into someone's head which should rightfully be outlawed.

Campbell Brown is one such example of a player skilled at the hip & shoulder. Hard but fair. From Port, daniel motlop is another.

 

[greennick]

Agree with this. It was a good bump, he didn't throw the elbow out or anything and the only reason I think he should be suspended is that he got the guy in the head. If he hadn't have made high contact it would have been a case of "good hit...end of story"

But he did make high contact so he is rightfully getting punished for it!!

2 weeks for breaking a guys jaw and 1 week for ****ing up multiple times recently!

 

[Carlton_Blues]

The hip and shoulder would not be debated as 'dying' if footballers didn't make head-high contact whilst performing it.

I love it as much as the next person, but you need to have skill (like every other part of footy) in order to execute it, otherwise you're just barraging into someone's head which should rightfully be outlawed.

Campbell Brown is one such example of a player skilled at the hip & shoulder. Hard but fair. From Port, daniel motlop is another.

Agreed. And Maxwells was not a H&S, as it was square on the chest.

Lets not turn this game into a pure athletes sport, it's 'footy' because of tactics such as the hip n shoulder bump.

 

[jimmy35]

It's a shit call . The kid didn't have his head over the ball , Maxwell didn't leave the ground or have an elbow raised .


May as well hand out WD and GA bibs with the Toyota logo on them .

 

[Dannerz]

It's a shit call . The kid didn't have his head over the ball , Maxwell didn't leave the ground or have an elbow raised .


May as well hand out WD and GA bibs with the Toyota logo on them .

I disagree.

Nick Maxwell executed a perfect hip and shoulder, but he ran past the ball to take out the player.

That is the reason he has been suspended.

 

[jimmy35]

I disagree.

Nick Maxwell executed a perfect hip and shoulder, but he ran past the ball to take out the player.

That is the reason he has been suspended.

No , the reason he was suspended is because the kids jaw was broken .

It's a shit call .

 

[krisholio14]

Some of the responses in this thread just show how soft the game, and society as a whole, has become.

If you don't like seeing blokes get sat on their arse by hard physical contact, take up knitting or lawn bowls.

As my dad once said to me, and as I found out later myself, if you don't want to get hurt, don't play football.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Some of the responses in this thread just show how soft the game, and society as a whole, has become.

If you don't like seeing blokes get sat on their arse by hard physical contact, take up knitting or lawn bowls.

As my dad once said to me, and as I found out later myself, if you don't want to get hurt, don't play football.

That's a straw man argument. The angst is not about people "getting sat on their arse" it's about people getting their jaws broken. I certainly have no issue with blokes getting the wind knocked out of their sails provided they can play the following week.

Modern players at the elite level are bigger, faster, stronger than players of twenty years ago. Heads have not gotten stronger. There's a need to protect players from the greater damage that modern footballers are capable of.

 

[krisholio14]

That's a straw man argument. The angst is not about people "getting sat on their arse" it's about people getting their jaws broken. I certainly have no issue with blokes getting the wind knocked out of their sails provided they can play the following week.

Modern players at the elite level are bigger, faster, stronger than players of twenty years ago. Heads have not gotten stronger. There's a need to protect players from the greater damage that modern footballers are capable of.

Let's get some padding on them then shall we?

If you don't want to get hurt by being run into by another bloke, you're playing the wrong game.

 

[Changa10]

Hip and shoulder was primarily used to bump players off the ball, typically side by side. It was then used as a weapon to cause damage as other forms of striking started to gain heavy penalties for.

There is nothing wrong with the hip and shoulder to knock your opponent out of the play, when you are charging an opponent and choose to hip and shoulder instead of strike then it is long dead in terms of disguising it as anything other than a strike.

I have no problem with it being banned from being used as a weapon but retained to be used how it was intended to be used, just to push players off the ball. It really takes no courage to run at speed and charge into someone not expecting contact, you are prepared, they have their eyes on the ball. At the speed the game is played at now it can just inflict a lot of damage.

Best post of this thread. Side on hip and shoulders will remain, and so they should coz we love em!! However, the front on hits, or shirtfronts as they were called in the 80's, will need to be executed differently, under current AFL rules.

Having said that, I suspect that even side on hip and shoulders that accidentally hit other players in the head will come under similar scrutiny as Maxwell's.

 

[Lawsy]

No one, who is playing the game or has played the game, has a problem with getting hurt if it is within the confines of the 'rules'.

Making 'head high' contact is not, and it is a players duty of care to ensure this is the case. In Maxwell's situation, he made contact to the guys head and in the process broke his jaw. It has never been acceptable to make head high contact and used to be penalised with a free kick. Now it is reportable and every single player is aware of the rules and what is and isn't acceptable.

Executing the bump properly i.e. to his side or lower on his body, and Maxwell has no case to answer.

 

[blue_12]

The outcome was unfortunate..but imo that was a copybook hns and is a great attribute of our game. These AFL do gooders are ruining this game.