The Crowd Thread

[Jono B]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

We arn't talking about 200 game veteran within a single season here.



To imply his numbers this year "arn't up to AFL standard", is to imply Jack himself isn't up to AFL standard at the moment.


It's not a hard concept.



But the fact remains, its bullshit.

We are talking about 100% guarenteed to be a superstar Jack Ziebell?

Just because I had a go of 1 part of his game does not mean I do not rate him. FWIW I don't think Gumbleton's ability to stand under balls is not there yet. Does not mean I don't rate him.

I just have doubts whether he would make the step from a impact/cameo player into a fully fledged star.

 

[cateye]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Love the don's supporters arrogance. Round 2 Essendon 69 to Fremantle 113. Well lets just hope North can improve as much as tha dons did in the past 8 rounds Sit back down you fools. Dont bother asking what the relevance is and saying it was 8 rounds ago because if you can develop so far to become world beaters rolleyes in 8 rounds, imagine what North can do in a couple of years. The majority (remember I said majority) of Essendon supporters on here are a joke

 

[ThomasR]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

The delusions of some North supporters (not all) on here are alarming. The best indication of where they are at is by looking at the teams they have played and the margins

Top 6
St Kilda - LOSS 104 points
Collingwood - LOSS 66 points
Western Bulldogs - LOSS 70 points
Fremantle - LOSS 61 points

Middle
Sydney - LOSS 40 points
Port Adelaide - LOSS 14 points

Bottom 6
West Coast - WIN 25 points
Hawthorn (at the time) - WIN 12 points
Melbourne - WIN 26 points
Adelaide - WIN 9 points

Belted by at least 10 goals by all the top clubs - not sure whether this is a lack of class at the top, or depth - perhaps both. Able to put away the weaker clubs so there must be something going right at least. Looking at the draw, 4-6 could very easily become 5-10 if they maintain this form line. We hear about all the kids coming through which is an easy claim to make, but they would want to be good as the current crop of players supposedly at the prime of their careers just isn't good enough to compete with the top sides.

 

[Selggad]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Watching Ziebell today he was blowing like a steam train by half way through the second quarter whenever he came to the bench. He looks like he has too much weight on him to run through the middle all day. I like his attitude though.

Quite a few of the north's lads looked like they were struggling with the amount of running. It wasn't that warm here, though it is probably warmer than Melbourne, and there was a lot of running back to defence for both teams on a longer than average ground. Not saying it is definitive, but from what I saw at the match, I'd say part of North's concerns is that their fitness is not where it ought to be.

 

[Sigh RolleyEyes]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

North going to the GC would have been a disaster.

Worse than a disaster, it would have been death. I'd rather continue living on a modest income, producing results greater than many wealthier clubs than die with $100,000,000.

They would have probably lost 30% of their Melbourne supporters

A GC Kangaroos would not have gotten close to keeping 30% of their supporters.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Watching Ziebell today he was blowing like a steam train by half way through the second quarter whenever he came to the bench. He looks like he has too much weight on him to run through the middle all day. I like his attitude though.

Its a by product of never having done a proper pre-season.

"..Before I got drafted I hadn't done a full pre-season, I had never been fit, I just played footy, and it's going to take me a couple more years to get it up there with the best midfielders in the competition."

 

[WoGiTaLiA]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Got to say, they were pretty piss poor today.

Fremantle looked flat as for 95% of the game and still gave them an absolute bath.

North are a very two faced team this year. When they are attacking and going in hard they look pretty good, but there bad is just really bad and we got that today.

I guess that's the nature of a young team but they are already starting to look a lot like the Eagles young team over the last couple of years. They can try hard but their skills look very suspect and their efforts really come and go.

That said, credit to Todd Goldstein, looks by far their best young player to me, he actually looks as though he could be a star in the ruck, which unfortunately with McIntosh already there is about the only position they dont need a star kid.

 

[Ghost of Grinter]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

North have some good talent, no doubt about that.

They drafted well, I think stocking up on inside mids will
put them in good stead in years to come, it will bring back
some shin boner spirit.

There is much to like about JZ, Cunnington, Bastinac and Swallow.
All should be guns, quality ball getters.

Im more worried about where Norths foward line is at -
or where it will be at in years to come.

Aaron Black looks a prospect, but that is some time away.
Tarrant has soundness issues.
Its going to be some time before they develop.

They have room to move in trading Hale to the GC, which
IMO would be a good move - as they have a ruckman too much
and I do agree that Goldstein does look ultra impressive.

Their backline is ok, but with quality mids and forwards, in the
future their backline wont be under as much pressure.

 

[Carnthe]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

One team will win the premiership this year, 15 others won't. I'll see you in hell.

 

[Carnthe]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Watching Ziebell today he was blowing like a steam train by half way through the second quarter whenever he came to the bench. He looks like he has too much weight on him to run through the middle all day. I like his attitude though.

Quite a few of the north's lads looked like they were struggling with the amount of running. It wasn't that warm here, though it is probably warmer than Melbourne, and there was a lot of running back to defence for both teams on a longer than average ground. Not saying it is definitive, but from what I saw at the match, I'd say part of North's concerns is that their fitness is not where it ought to be.

I tells ya what Selggads, Ziebell broke his leg going for a hard ball last year, and so was not able to do a proper preseason this year. And what more the number of times I saw Freo players fumble the ground ball when there was the slightest whiff of pressure coming there way, I would be worried about finals footy if I were you. But enjoy your running races at Subi this year. Kisses.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

North have some good talent, no doubt about that.

They drafted well, I think stocking up on inside mids will
put them in good stead in years to come, it will bring back
some shin boner spirit.

There is much to like about JZ, Cunnington, Bastinac and Swallow.
All should be guns, quality ball getters.

Im more worried about where Norths foward line is at -
or where it will be at in years to come.

Aaron Black looks a prospect, but that is some time away.
Tarrant has soundness issues.
Its going to be some time before they develop.

They have room to move in trading Hale to the GC, which
IMO would be a good move - as they have a ruckman too much
and I do agree that Goldstein does look ultra impressive.

Their backline is ok, but with quality mids and forwards, in the
future their backline wont be under as much pressure.

On the money. Would just add that O'Keefe has shown some promise forward as well, but it's the area that worries me the most by far. Hale shoud be a ruckman and handy resting forward for someone - we need guys who actually understand how to play as genuine forwards, and we need them learning to play together.

Time's not the issue it is for some clubs, where we need to capitalise before guys retire - there's really only Harvey at the senior end and where he plays we have plenty of talent coming through. So while the mids and backs grow as a team, we might as well get some more promising long term options tried up forward.

Some good, perceptive comments in this thread, which I doubt was what the opening troll was expecting.

 

[Roby]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

The delusions of some North supporters (not all) on here are alarming. The best indication of where they are at is by looking at the teams they have played and the margins

Top 6
St Kilda - LOSS 104 points
Collingwood - LOSS 66 points
Western Bulldogs - LOSS 70 points
Fremantle - LOSS 61 points

Middle
Sydney - LOSS 40 points
Port Adelaide - LOSS 14 points

Bottom 6
West Coast - WIN 25 points
Hawthorn (at the time) - WIN 12 points
Melbourne - WIN 26 points
Adelaide - WIN 9 points

Belted by at least 10 goals by all the top clubs - not sure whether this is a lack of class at the top, or depth - perhaps both. Able to put away the weaker clubs so there must be something going right at least. Looking at the draw, 4-6 could very easily become 5-10 if they maintain this form line. We hear about all the kids coming through which is an easy claim to make, but they would want to be good as the current crop of players supposedly at the prime of their careers just isn't good enough to compete with the top sides.

The Port Adelaide game, it was effectively over at 3/4 time, they just put the cue in the rack. I went to the North vs Eagles match and Eagles put up the most insipid performance I had seen all season. The Hawthorn match, Hawks played without a ruckman, and coach even complained about it! The fact that Hawthorn were leading in that game with a few minutes really shows were there at.

I would like to know what North supporters think of the fact that they lack pace, especially in the middle, and whether that is a worrying sign? Now usually if you lack pace it's due to the fact that your have harder inside players but North is last in averaging contested possessions against their opponents and considerably behind by fair margin of -13. Considering all this, how much is due to the players and how much is due to the coach. The coach thinks his going to playing finals but isn't that a bit rich considering they may finish in the bottom two.

 

[Bennycoff]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

They;re simply no good perhaps. Average list, they try hard, but what more can you expect.

 

[Selggad]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

I tells ya what Selggads, Ziebell broke his leg going for a hard ball last year, and so was not able to do a proper preseason this year. And what more the number of times I saw Freo players fumble the ground ball when there was the slightest whiff of pressure coming there way, I would be worried about finals footy if I were you. But enjoy your running races at Subi this year. Kisses.

Ha ha. and I hope you enjoy watching us in the finals. From what you say not a single Freo player fumbled on Sunday as there never was a whiff of pressure.

 

[Z_K]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

I would like to know what North supporters think of the fact that they lack pace, especially in the middle, and whether that is a worrying sign?

How many quick blokes in the Hawthorn midfield group that won the flag? Geelong current set-up?

Now usually if you lack pace it's due to the fact that your have harder inside players but North is last in averaging contested possessions against their opponents and considerably behind by fair margin of -13. Considering all this, how much is due to the players and how much is due to the coach

The oldest player in the starting midfield group is Swallow, who is 22. Ziebell and Bastinac are teenagers. Cunnington is next, he is also 18. Greenwood is our only midfielder tagger and an inside type, he is 21. Wells and Harvey are coming in off wings, but neither clearance footballers.

There's the issue. It's very simple. These blokes aren't playing flanks, loose behind the footy or spending much time forward. They are the prime movers, the blokes we are looking to for clearance and stoppage wins. Not only do they not have the strength or experience to go with the best sides, they are probably 3 years off having the tank.

Added to all of it, you've got a coach who is 6 months into a career and is trying to build a system. Every side we've played with a simmilar age spread to ours we've beaten, and I expect that to continue.

 

[Tas]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

The delusions of some North supporters (not all) on here are alarming. The best indication of where they are at is by looking at the teams they have played and the margins

Top 6
St Kilda - LOSS 104 points
Collingwood - LOSS 66 points
Western Bulldogs - LOSS 70 points
Fremantle - LOSS 61 points

Middle
Sydney - LOSS 40 points
Port Adelaide - LOSS 14 points

Bottom 6
West Coast - WIN 25 points
Hawthorn (at the time) - WIN 12 points
Melbourne - WIN 26 points
Adelaide - WIN 9 points

Belted by at least 10 goals by all the top clubs - not sure whether this is a lack of class at the top, or depth - perhaps both. Able to put away the weaker clubs so there must be something going right at least. Looking at the draw, 4-6 could very easily become 5-10 if they maintain this form line. We hear about all the kids coming through which is an easy claim to make, but they would want to be good as the current crop of players supposedly at the prime of their careers just isn't good enough to compete with the top sides.

Do you want me to dredge up the St Kilda performances when you were packing guys of around the same age and experience?

I felt we should have been far more competitive against the better sides than we have been. I think the game plan pushed by Scott has been one that the younger guys are struggling with when under a lot of pressure. When you look at the bad losses they are all sides that put us under a lot of pressure over 4 quarters and they deserve the win.

You just have to go back to looking how ordinary the Saints looked in Lyon's first year trying to adopt a new gameplan. Add the fact our midfield is ridiculously young and most of the midfielders came off an injury interrupted pre-season and do not have the level of fitness they would had they completed a full pre-season (compare Bastinac who had a full pre-season to the others).

Nobody expected us to compete for a flag this year, the important thing at this stage is just getting the games of experience, learning the game plan and not getting injured.

 

[ansonholt]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Watching Ziebell today he was blowing like a steam train by half way through the second quarter whenever he came to the bench. He looks like he has too much weight on him to run through the middle all day. I like his attitude though.

Quite a few of the north's lads looked like they were struggling with the amount of running. It wasn't that warm here, though it is probably warmer than Melbourne, and there was a lot of running back to defence for both teams on a longer than average ground. Not saying it is definitive, but from what I saw at the match, I'd say part of North's concerns is that their fitness is not where it ought to be.

Mate, it was very warm here yesterday. As a Victorian living in WA, I can tell you it made a difference. Yes we were beaten by a better side, yes we played badly, yes we selected poorly, but the heat also contributed. Victorians aren't use to 22 degrees at the end of May.

 

[B-Rock]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Ziebell is getting compared to Zaharakis and Lonergan?

Are you serious?

Jack was pretty good on Sunday, was one of the few players to stand up.

He still hasn't had a full preseason and needs to develop a tank. This crap about him not being damaging is ridiculous though. Clearly some people don't actually watch North games and just comment off the stats sheets.

He is 19 years old and is shouldering the load as our main midfielder. All of this coming off a broken leg.

North have been shit, but pick your targets FFS.

 

[MarkT2]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

What's wrong?

An inexperienced coach wioth a lot of inexperienced players for starters. Apart from that thier good young players lack support from all but a few older players. The middle aged players are by and large not good enough. Positionally they need quality KP players. They have 1 - Petrie. The rest are makeshift or sub par.

A bottom out from a flag chance in 3-4 years if they draft well and the AFL doesn't Fitzroy them.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Mate, it was very warm here yesterday. As a Victorian living in WA, I can tell you it made a difference. Yes we were beaten by a better side, yes we played badly, yes we selected poorly, but the heat also contributed. Victorians aren't use to 22 degrees at the end of May.

It was 19 today and was consistently up to 22 etc until recent weeks.
Dont kid yourself.

 

[Scham]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Mate, it was very warm here yesterday. As a Victorian living in WA, I can tell you it made a difference. Yes we were beaten by a better side, yes we played badly, yes we selected poorly, but the heat also contributed. Victorians aren't use to 22 degrees at the end of May.

Absolutely!

It might not have been very warm sitting in the shade near the benches with a cold beer in your hand Selgaard but sitting in the full sun on the other side of the ground without any breeze it was hot. Running around in the full sun without any breeze to a group of Victorians would've been bloody hot. It was definitely a factor.

 

[Roby]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

How many quick blokes in the Hawthorn midfield group that won the flag? Geelong current set-up?

How is the 2008 Hawthorn side is relevant to a 2010 discussion? Still you can argue they were a faster side than the current North team who are confidently an older team. That was also the reason why Hawthorn beat Geelong. Fitter, faster.

If you want to have dig at Geelong, that's fine. They are not scintillatingly fast, but then not slow either. Keep in mind that they are bigger bodies and were they lack in speed they make up when contesting football. North lack both speed and contesting ability.

The oldest player in the starting midfield group is Swallow, who is 22. Ziebell and Bastinac are teenagers. Cunnington is next, he is also 18. Greenwood is our only midfielder tagger and an inside type, he is 21. Wells and Harvey are coming in off wings, but neither clearance footballers.

None of these players besides Swallow are overly quick. You definitely need to improve with some speed. Or somehow hope Thomas and Campbell build a tank.

There's the issue. It's very simple. These blokes aren't playing flanks, loose behind the footy or spending much time forward. They are the prime movers, the blokes we are looking to for clearance and stoppage wins. Not only do they not have the strength or experience to go with the best sides, they are probably 3 years off having the tank.

You can't have too much of one thing. You need to be able to have different players than can play different roles. If you only recruit in one way you become limited as a side.

Added to all of it, you've got a coach who is 6 months into a career and is trying to build a system. Every side we've played with a simmilar age spread to ours we've beaten, and I expect that to continue.

I don't believe this will continue and stated the reason already in my previous posts. The competition will improve and leave you guys behind.

 

[morgoth]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Since when has a new coach come in and immediately improved the team? Very rarely happens as game plans have to be implemented and refined, players have to be tested in the heat of battle etc etc.

North's lack of facilities and development staff would have played a major part in some players like Wells not progressing as hoped, this is meant to be fixed but I don't know.

Playing 3 big blokes? I suspect he is finding out who can play with the intention to trade one at the end of the year. In fact Scott will probably make a lot of changes at year end as he will have had a year to assess the list and work out what he needs and does not.

Last year Freo were a rabble, this year they are exciting and sit second on the ladder. The wheel that is AFL footy turns quickly, its fun to kick sides when they are down but to say a team is a rabble with no improvement is naive.

 

[Z_K]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

How is the 2008 Hawthorn side is relevant to a 2010 discussion? Still you can argue they were a faster side than the current North team who are confidently an older team. That was also the reason why Hawthorn beat Geelong. Fitter, faster.

It was two years ago. Very relevant. Speed has never, ever won a flag. Ever. Hawthorn won because Hodge, Sewell and Mitchell took massive physical punishment and won contested footy.

If you want to have dig at Geelong, that's fine. They are not scintillatingly fast, but then not slow either. Keep in mind that they are bigger bodies and were they lack in speed they make up when contesting football. North lack both speed and contesting ability.

Again, it's the youngest midfield set-up in the AFL. You're expecting teenagers and a few blokes in their early 20's to be quick, strong, have AFL engines and develop at three times the rate to the average player. It just won't happen.

As for having a dig at Geelong, they are best midfield I have ever seen and you'd have to mount a very strong argument to convince there have been any better in the history of the game. And they have one quick bloke, whose speed doesn't hold a candle to his other strengths as a footballer.

 

[jacko57]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

since when has a new coach come in and immediately improved the team?

1993.