The Wallace Drafting Disaster

[Wallaby]

Just doing a bit of reading, and in response to the 'Next year Expectation' thread.

We're still stuffed because of our poor drafts from 2004, 2005. I know we all slag off at Frawley because of his desperate top-up strategy, but Wallaces drafting has similarly left us in a very poor position with players who should be in year 5 and 6 by now. I know all sides have draft disappointments, but Wallace took it to new heights.

Just checking from 2004-2005 on, I have listed our picks and the players who were drafted immediately 1, 2, or 3 spots after.

2004
1. Deledio (Good Pick) - Roughead, Griffen, Tamblin - OK.
4. Tambling - Franklin, Willimas, Lewis - severely stuffed that up.
12. Maeyer - Bate, Monfries, Dunn - any would have been better.
16, Pattison - McQualter, Wood, Willets - OK pick - not much there.
20. Polo - Murphy, Wells, Rusling (not much there).
36 Mcguane (OK) - Le Cras (aaargh!), McCormack (?), Maric - OK pick - would have been bteer with Le Cras.
52. Limbach - Simon Taylor was next pick - not like we've needed ruckmen.
65 Mark Graham - OK - only 6 players picked after him (although one was Daniel Pratt).

2005. This is worse than 2004.
8. Oakley-Nicholls - you might want to sit down - Clark, Drum (dud), Higgins, Jones, Hurn, Birchall, Varcoe, Douglas. Typically, it's us and Freo who miss out here.
24 Hughes - dud, but OK pick - followed by Mills, Ibbotson, Addison.
40. Casserly - followed by (gulp), Hooper, Warnock, Swallow, Carlisle.

So really, after the Frawley disaster, we spent two years actually becoming worse - we were supposed to be cleaning out the list, but the replacements we got (in those two years of high draft picks) didn't give us anything.

2006 was a good draft for us.
13. Riewoldt - yay! Got one! Followed by Sellar, O'Keefe and Mitch Brown.
26. Edwards - yay! Got two!. Howard, Davies, and McKenzie.
58. Connors - yay - maybe. Followed by Jarryd Allen and....
60. Peterson - Yay....Oh Bugger - followed by Josh Hill, Weetra and Goldsack.
73. Collins - yay - although one of the only 8 players drafted after him was Rodan, and I don't think Collins offers any more than him at this stage.

Now the 2006 boys are starting to come good, and we are getting back on track. But 2007 was a poor draft for us as well - apart from Cotchin, we picked up Rance and Putt. Oh, and traded for McMahon. So we have a bit of a black hole from that year as well.

 

[turtle27]

What an original thread.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Why are poor recruiting decisions blamed on the head coach?

Blame his top up strategy but not decisions made by the head recruiter.

 

[Haggard H]

I've got a lot of love for Tambling yet have to admit his 2010 was a disaster, but I'd still take him ahead of Williams, and it wouldn't take much improvement next year to jump back over Roughead (who was well behind Richie last year).

...can't believe I even bothered reading this thread past the title, let alone replying to it.

 

[Simmonds2Hislop]

2006 was a good draft for us.
13. Riewoldt - yay! Got one! Followed by Sellar, O'Keefe and Mitch Brown.
26. Edwards - yay! Got two!. Howard, Davies, and McKenzie.
58. Connors - yay - maybe. Followed by Jarryd Allen and....
60. Peterson - Yay....Oh Bugger - followed by Josh Hill, Weetra and Goldsack.
73. Collins - yay - although one of the only 8 players drafted after him was Rodan, and I don't think Collins offers any more than him at this stage.

Now the 2006 boys are starting to come good, and we are getting back on track. But 2007 was a poor draft for us as well - apart from Cotchin, we picked up Rance and Putt. Oh, and traded for McMahon. So we have a bit of a black hole from that year as well.

Collins is 5 years younger than Rodan and probably already better, with a shitload more potential.

And why did you mention that we traded for McMahon, but not Morton?

 

[CoggaRules]

We can nip this in the bud and put it to rest now.
Its as plain as this.
Spud was a dud.
GM was a dud.
TW was a dud since he had a dud supplying him with duds.

The last thing we could afford was a trifecta of duds in succession after the plethora of duds that went before them.

Its a testament to the supporter base strength that underpins this club's existence that we are still a vaible Melbourne based AFL club after falling into that abyss of dudness.

What exacerbated the whole TW thing is that he was touted as the change to that, but in effect did immeasurable more damage than Spud the dud, seeing as we all knew Spud was a dud. We thought TW wasnt and waited and waited and we were left with a list devoid of any semblance of future direction on the back of a coach who in essence was purely trying to elongate his tenure, in the hope that the moon turned blue and one or two of the "draftees" that were in effect duds, surprised and became players.
i.e in a nutshell TW was hit and hope. The most damning pointer to his ability or inability, or if not that, then his complete and utter falseness was his comment on a certain player, JON.
I quote, "He will make his critics eat their words". Well TW, we are still waiting to eat our words, so seeing as it aint gunna happen, you can eat shit.

 

[1980GFVideo]

In defence of Terry, Greg Miller looks to be a real territorial bloke like Grant Thomas who would be pretty hard to override on a decision.

Ill bet Miller told us that he could get us the next Wayne Carey.

 

[Mr Magic]

The Connors pick wasn't too bad. Connors is going well and you can't expect too much at 58 in the best of times

 

[mcuzzy]

Tambling was good in 2009 in the backline, everyone praised him

he got moved around lots this season and he was carrying an injury apparently

I say we let him be and see what happens next season

 

[mitch richmond]

Oh Dr Hindsight,
Here’s a list of players the likes of Mick Malthouse, Rodney Eade, Neil Craig, Ross Lyon and Brett Ratten have picked in the 3 years you mentioned. But hey, TW was the only coach to make bad choices.

ADEL – John Meesen, Chad Gibson, Darren Pfeiffer, Alan Obst, Nick Gill, Bryce Campbell
BRIS – Cameron Wood, Pat Garner, Jayden Attard, Luke Forsyth, Wayde Mills, Rhan Hooper, Matthew Leunberger, Albert Proud, Chris Schmidt, Matt Tyler, Sam Sheldon
CARL – Adam Hartlett, Luke Blackwell, Chris Bryan, Anthony Raso, Jake Edwards, Mark Austin, Clinton Benjamin, Joe Anderson
COLL – Chris Egan, Adam Iacobucci, Danny Stanley, Sean Rusling, Ryan Cook, John Anthony
ESS – Andrew Lee, Paul Thomas, Courtney Dempsey, Austin Lucy, Scott Gumbleton, Tom Hislop, Kyle Reimers,
FRE – Benet Copping, Toby Stribling, Daniel Haines, Marcus Drum, Robert Warnock, Garrick Ibbotson, Clayton Collard, Brock O’Brien, Calib Mourish,
GEE – Brent Prismall, Trent West, Stephen Owen, Nathan Djerrkurra
HAW – Matt Little, Beau Dowler, Max Bailey, Beau Muston, Mitch Thorp, Gary Moss
Mel – Michael Newton, Simon Buckley, Heath Neville, Isaac Weetra
N.M – Jesse Smith, Brad Moran, Ben Schwarze, Matt Riggio, Casey Green, Tim Hutchison
PORT – Adam Thomson, Ryan Willits, James Ezard, Fabian DeLuca, Ben Eckerman, Nick Lower, Hugh Minson, Jonathan Giles, Paul Stewart, Ryan Williams
SYD – David Spriggs, Heath James, Matthew Laidlaw, Kristin Thornton, Ryan Brabazon, Daniel O’Keefe, Daniel Currie, Peter Faulks
STK – Cain Ackland, Mark McGough, Michael Rix, Phillip Raymond, Justin Sweeney, Brad Howard, Matthew Ferguson
W.BULL – Jesse Wells, Damian McCormick, Travis Baird, Brett Montgomery, Michael West, Malcolm Lynch, Paul O’Shea
WC – Bradley Smith, Matthew Spangher, Eric McKenzie, Tim Houlihan, Will Schofield, James Thomson,

 

[CoggaRules]

Oh Dr Hindsight,
Here’s a list of players the likes of Mick Malthouse, Rodney Eade, Neil Craig, Ross Lyon and Brett Ratten have picked in the 3 years you mentioned. But hey, TW was the only coach to make bad choices.

ADEL – John Meesen, Chad Gibson, Darren Pfeiffer, Alan Obst, Nick Gill, Bryce Campbell
BRIS – Cameron Wood, Pat Garner, Jayden Attard, Luke Forsyth, Wayde Mills, Rhan Hooper, Matthew Leunberger, Albert Proud, Chris Schmidt, Matt Tyler, Sam Sheldon
CARL – Adam Hartlett, Luke Blackwell, Chris Bryan, Anthony Raso, Jake Edwards, Mark Austin, Clinton Benjamin, Joe Anderson
COLL – Chris Egan, Adam Iacobucci, Danny Stanley, Sean Rusling, Ryan Cook, John Anthony
ESS – Andrew Lee, Paul Thomas, Courtney Dempsey, Austin Lucy, Scott Gumbleton, Tom Hislop, Kyle Reimers,
FRE – Benet Copping, Toby Stribling, Daniel Haines, Marcus Drum, Robert Warnock, Garrick Ibbotson, Clayton Collard, Brock O’Brien, Calib Mourish,
GEE – Brent Prismall, Trent West, Stephen Owen, Nathan Djerrkurra
HAW – Matt Little, Beau Dowler, Max Bailey, Beau Muston, Mitch Thorp, Gary Moss
Mel – Michael Newton, Simon Buckley, Heath Neville, Isaac Weetra
N.M – Jesse Smith, Brad Moran, Ben Schwarze, Matt Riggio, Casey Green, Tim Hutchison
PORT – Adam Thomson, Ryan Willits, James Ezard, Fabian DeLuca, Ben Eckerman, Nick Lower, Hugh Minson, Jonathan Giles, Paul Stewart, Ryan Williams
SYD – David Spriggs, Heath James, Matthew Laidlaw, Kristin Thornton, Ryan Brabazon, Daniel O’Keefe, Daniel Currie, Peter Faulks
STK – Cain Ackland, Mark McGough, Michael Rix, Phillip Raymond, Justin Sweeney, Brad Howard, Matthew Ferguson
W.BULL – Jesse Wells, Damian McCormick, Travis Baird, Brett Montgomery, Michael West, Malcolm Lynch, Paul O’Shea
WC – Bradley Smith, Matthew Spangher, Eric McKenzie, Tim Houlihan, Will Schofield, James Thomson,

Love your work,
you might want to add the list of our duds if you have enough space.
Then how about giving us the list of players that were picked by each of the teams that made it.

I repeat this for the nuff nuffs like you who continue to be apologists for imbeciles that hand over a CV and are deemed to be experts.
They can only be judged in hindsight stupid.
They get paid top dollar because hindsight should say they knew what they were doing.
I mean, the way you put your argument forward, any ton dick or harry can lob into the recruiters seat and produce shit and then be excused because of your comparisons.
FFS, so what you are suggesting is that its just a ****ing lottery and you might get it right if the balls drop your way. So we pay 6 figure sums to fools that take a punt correct? And when they fail its ok because everyone else failed and you cant judge them on their results because its hindsight...

 

[Spluff]

Get over it. It's already done, going over it again and again and blaming everything on Wallace helps nobody.

 

[tigerT]

Oh Dr Hindsight,
Here’s a list of players the likes of Mick Malthouse, Rodney Eade, Neil Craig, Ross Lyon and Brett Ratten have picked in the 3 years you mentioned. But hey, TW was the only coach to make bad choices.

ADEL – John Meesen, Chad Gibson, Darren Pfeiffer, Alan Obst, Nick Gill, Bryce Campbell
BRIS – Cameron Wood, Pat Garner, Jayden Attard, Luke Forsyth, Wayde Mills, Rhan Hooper, Matthew Leunberger, Albert Proud, Chris Schmidt, Matt Tyler, Sam Sheldon
CARL – Adam Hartlett, Luke Blackwell, Chris Bryan, Anthony Raso, Jake Edwards, Mark Austin, Clinton Benjamin, Joe Anderson
COLL – Chris Egan, Adam Iacobucci, Danny Stanley, Sean Rusling, Ryan Cook, John Anthony
ESS – Andrew Lee, Paul Thomas, Courtney Dempsey, Austin Lucy, Scott Gumbleton, Tom Hislop, Kyle Reimers,
FRE – Benet Copping, Toby Stribling, Daniel Haines, Marcus Drum, Robert Warnock, Garrick Ibbotson, Clayton Collard, Brock O’Brien, Calib Mourish,
GEE – Brent Prismall, Trent West, Stephen Owen, Nathan Djerrkurra
HAW – Matt Little, Beau Dowler, Max Bailey, Beau Muston, Mitch Thorp, Gary Moss
Mel – Michael Newton, Simon Buckley, Heath Neville, Isaac Weetra
N.M – Jesse Smith, Brad Moran, Ben Schwarze, Matt Riggio, Casey Green, Tim Hutchison
PORT – Adam Thomson, Ryan Willits, James Ezard, Fabian DeLuca, Ben Eckerman, Nick Lower, Hugh Minson, Jonathan Giles, Paul Stewart, Ryan Williams
SYD – David Spriggs, Heath James, Matthew Laidlaw, Kristin Thornton, Ryan Brabazon, Daniel O’Keefe, Daniel Currie, Peter Faulks
STK – Cain Ackland, Mark McGough, Michael Rix, Phillip Raymond, Justin Sweeney, Brad Howard, Matthew Ferguson
W.BULL – Jesse Wells, Damian McCormick, Travis Baird, Brett Montgomery, Michael West, Malcolm Lynch, Paul O’Shea
WC – Bradley Smith, Matthew Spangher, Eric McKenzie, Tim Houlihan, Will Schofield, James Thomson,

which is exactly why when you are rebuilding from near the bottom you must take as many picks year after year because invariably everyone gets picks that fail. The difference is teams like the crows, pies cats etc already have a quality core so don't hurt as much when the occassional pick flops. When you are down the bottom it hurts more which is why clubs like hawthorn, carlton, melbourne got themselves plenty of high end draft picks so the failure of the few doesnt hurt them as much. We simply ****ed up by not taking enough picks over the journey

 

[Tiger2709]

Tambling was good in 2009 in the backline, everyone praised him

he got moved around lots this season and he was carrying an injury apparently

I say we let him be and see what happens next season

He's had a lot of chances and to be honest I think it's time to let him go while we still have a chance to get something for him, if they do give him another year it's going to have to be a good one, the excuses for Bling have just about run out.

 

[Tiger08]

Why are poor recruiting decisions blamed on the head coach?

Blame his top up strategy but not decisions made by the head recruiter.

We couldn't afford a recruiting department because of the salary that individual head coach demanded.

Atleast that's my understanding.

Water under the bridge. I think the RFC bottomed on April 12, 2010

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/cousins-one-of-four-banned-by-richmond-20100412-s3jo.html

Onwards and upwards from there.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

We certainly had a head recruiter. I don't think we had a development team.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

With just a few different decisions in the 07 & 08 drafts alone, our list would be at least a couple of years ahead of where we are currently...also...whilst poor draft choices are costly, they're often excusable in what's not an exact science...what's not excusable however is only going 3 deep into a National Draft and trading away picks for recycled hacks....doubly so when you're in the position we were...

 

[Tiger08]

We certainly had a head recruiter. I don't think we had a development team.

Wasn't the head recruiter also on the board, the match committee and running the tuck shop?

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

The biggest indictment on Terry (in hindsight) is that he must of known we couldn't run a competitive football department with his salary taking up so much of the budget. He didn't care - or atleast not enough to do anything about it.

Pretty much the opposite of Geelong players taking pay cuts to stay together to win flags. The rest is history. Anyway.. like I said earlier, water under the bridge. Learn the lesson of not employing tanned used-car salesman as your head coach and move on.

 

[nicn31]

Forget the past and look to the future. It works both ways, if we picked Franklin the chances are that we would've finished higher on the ladder so would've missed out on Cotchin and Martin. Hardwick is doing a fantastic job with the kids and we now have something to look forward to.

 

[Haggard H]

Love your work,
you might want to add the list of our duds if you have enough space.
Then how about giving us the list of players that were picked by each of the teams that made it.

I repeat this for the nuff nuffs like you who continue to be apologists for imbeciles that hand over a CV and are deemed to be experts.
They can only be judged in hindsight stupid.
They get paid top dollar because hindsight should say they knew what they were doing.
I mean, the way you put your argument forward, any ton dick or harry can lob into the recruiters seat and produce shit and then be excused because of your comparisons.
FFS, so what you are suggesting is that its just a ****ing lottery and you might get it right if the balls drop your way. So we pay 6 figure sums to fools that take a punt correct? And when they fail its ok because everyone else failed and you cant judge them on their results because its hindsight...

I can't be bothered typing out 200+ names, but for what it's worth; from our picks/trades/elevations in those three years we still have 18 guys on AFL lists. Only Hawthorn with 19 is better - it would suggest that maybe we do compare favourably across the board (conceding that we had a decent amount of early picks).

19 - Hawthorn
18 - Richmond
14 - Collingwood
13 - Essendon, Melbourne, North, Port
12 - West Coast, Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton
11 - Geelong
10 - Dogs, Freo
9 - Sydney
6 - StKilda

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

I can't be bothered typing out 200+ names, but for what it's worth; from our picks/trades/elevations in those three years we still have 18 guys on AFL lists. Only Hawthorn with 19 is better - it would suggest that maybe we do compare favourably across the board (conceding that we had a decent amount of early picks).

19 - Hawthorn
18 - Richmond
14 - Collingwood
13 - Essendon, Melbourne, North, Port
12 - West Coast, Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton
11 - Geelong
10 - Dogs, Freo
9 - Sydney
6 - StKilda

well our drafting would be comprable if we were on a par w Hawks on the ladder

 

[mitch richmond]

He's had a lot of chances and to be honest I think it's time to let him go while we still have a chance to get something for him, if they do give him another year it's going to have to be a good one, the excuses for Bling have just about run out.

I reckon North might take him as a ready replacement for Daniel Wells if he heads to the Gold Coast.

 

[telsor]

Our recruiting department a few years back was effectively 2 part timers.

Mostly Francis Jackson, with Greg Miller chipping in when his myriad of other jobs allowed. FJ only started in '05, so would still have been building his contact network ( vital in recruiting ) and like anyone new in a job, would have had trouble standing up to his boss.

If memory serves, going into the last draft, we had 3 full timers ( Francis Jackson + 2 assistants ), plus Craig Cameron ( probably less involved than GM was, but he'd still have plenty of contacts out there ).

Inevitably, we will be seing more players now (and more of them), and will be able to spend a lot of time analyzing video of them, talking to their coaches, family, etc about what they're like, etc etc etc. We'll still make mistakes, but there will be far fewer.

Further, when we've got them in, we've got a bigger team working on developing these players.

Inevitably, we will do better as a result.




Yes, part of this can be blamed on the salaries of Wallet/Miller, but mostly the expansion in on field staff has come from the Board/CEO getting the finances in order....It wont really flow through for 3-5 years, but they're the ones truely responsible for getting us back on track.

 

[Haggard H]

well our drafting would be comprable if we were on a par w Hawks on the ladder

I guess I'm saying it's not recruiting but development that's been the problem. We're picking capable footballers, just not turning them into good ones.

 

[Spluff]

well our drafting would be comprable if we were on a par w Hawks on the ladder

Hawthorn's drafting has been shocking recently. They've bungled up every draft except 2007 since 04.