Preview Rd 9 - North Melbourne v Brisbane Lions

[king and i]

We look better late when games open up and applied pressure drops off.

We have to be better early when the pressure and intensity is up.

Exactly. Coming back from a 50 point deficit in a quarter and a half of junk time is no great feat... and should be regarded as such. If North were tougher we'd have lost by 100 +

 

[Kickit2brown]

Umpires played a hand in how ugly that game of football was to watch. Brisbane copped it hard early but to be fair there were some shockers against North towards the end. I'd hope that the AFL see that standard of inconsistent umpiring is unacceptable and do something about it. If that was someone's first look at a game of AFL you wouldn't blame them for not watching again, you'd have no idea what the rules were or how it was adjudicated.

North deserved the win, Lions lost the game in 1st and 2nd Quarters, didn't work hard enough and I think Voss took to long to react to Norths loose man in defense. We looked a lot more stable when we dropped one back too.

 

[Paulborracho]

Whatever the coaches did after half time, why the f$@k did they not do after the first qtr. and why the hell was Blacky on if EVERYONE knew he was not right? For f&@ks sake, why did we lose????

 

[jackess]

ZERO tackles to Cornelius. Will he be dropped?

I think the Lions won the frees count in the end but the umpiring was the worst I've seen for a Lions match this season. Maybe slightly going North's way.

 

[Haso]

The inconsistency is frustrating, but when you look at the team in the cold light of day noit unexpected. We saw in the second half what they can look like playing the contested footy that they want to play, and the other end of the spectrum in the first half.

I simply do not know what to feel at the moment.

 

[GingerGreatness]

Meh.

I was at the Essendon game.

This was better.

Much better.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Exactly. Coming back from a 50 point deficit in a quarter and a half of junk time is no great feat... and should be regarded as such. If North were tougher we'd have lost by 100 +

I don't think it was a cheap junk time comeback. We earned it, but we are still found wanting when elite AFL pressure is applied.

 

[Homer Jnr]

BULL.

EVERY player should be equally to blame for EVERY loss. None of this "you played more games than me so you should take more ownership". If I pulled that bullshit at work I'd be shown the door!



I am hereby banning myself from Bigfooty until tomorrow, I'm really pissed off.

Each to their own.

Lets burn Yeo!!!!!

Yes each player has to shoulder the responsibility for their performances. But players with less experience need to be given more latitude.

Players like Adcock, Drummond, Merrett, Patfull, McGrath, Raines and McGuire are the blokes that are the senior heads. Ultimately they have enough experience to take ownership of this side when the chips are down, and they are sporadically delivering on that. Rich, Rockliff, Redden and Polkinghorne are the next group that need to do the same, and are showing glimpses, but not yet consistently delivering that.

For our younger players to develop, they need their senior players to play their role in their development on the field, and I fear we may not be seeing that from a few of the players in that first aforementioned group.

Aside from McGuire, that group failed to perform at the expected level during the first half. Their input was very noticeable during the second half, which coincided with our lift in performance.

Sorry, but I can't fathom patting them on the back and telling them they were quality 4 quarter performers today.

 

[Scubaveg]

Interesting to see what Blacky has to say about his injury on Eddie's show tonight. If he still goes on it.

Younger players stood up after Blackie was subbed. Hoping the last two quarters prove a turning point Goethe group.

Unfortunately Polkinghorne will survive
Another week with Blackie and perhaps Rockcliff in doubt for next week.

 

[lionbear]

Not so.

I would argue that Voss has been too conservative in his approach, because he has been trying to hang onto his job by jagging an occasional win. The problem is that Voss has steered us into a limbo state, caught between an honest rebuilding phase and a desperate attempt to win games by hanging on to players that are past it.

If we were really rebuilding:

- Drummond, Patfull, McGrath and Adcock wouldn't be automatic selections.

- Merrett would be in defence and Voss would be surrounding him with "in form" senior players and kids who were willing to have a crack at it.

- Cornelius and Retzlaff would have had more games over the last three years.

- Polec and Karnezis would have been playing this week.

- Rockliff, Redden and Rich wouldn't be feted in the way they are at our club, particularly as we pretty much get smashed in the clearances week in week out. These three are really solid footballers, but my goodness they get a lot of air put in their tyres by Lions supporters.

- Consistent reserves form would have been rewarded.

- We would have identified a weakness in our ruck department long ago and we wouldn't have drafted Hudson.

I am prepared to sit through loss after loss provided they weren't as embarrassing as some of our performances this year and we showed signs of improving, but at this stage it is clear that we are going backwards.

10 games after the biggest review of the players and coaches since the merger and you want the coach specialists from outside the club suggested we keep gone.

The club has on field issues that we are working to fix, but if you want a coach who can fix it in 10 weeks, well I don't think even Ron Baressi, Tom Hafey or Leigh Matthews could have fixed this.

Voss should have done an apprenticeship, he didn't but we have gone through the pain of him learning his craft, now let's see what he can do.

 

[jackess]

Rockliff had 13 contested possessions, the next best for the Lions was 9. He also had 7 clearances, the next best being 3. Needs more votes on the votes thread.

 

[growler]

How I hate that term. Honorable loss.

 

[BrisbaneLion9636]

Not so.

I would argue that Voss has been too conservative in his approach, because he has been trying to hang onto his job by jagging an occasional win. The problem is that Voss has steered us into a limbo state, caught between an honest rebuilding phase and a desperate attempt to win games by hanging on to players that are past it.

He has been, but it's been shown what he can bring to the table, as we saw in the second half.

If we were really rebuilding:

- Drummond, Patfull, McGrath and Adcock wouldn't be automatic selections.

Drummond and Adcock are in the top 5 of our most important players. If you talk about a rebuild, you don't just put in kids everywhere, you have to have the right mix of seniors with youngsters. Patfull showed how useful he was against 2nd and 3rd talls, and McGrath played his best game for the year.

- Merrett would be in defence and Voss would be surrounding him with "in form" senior players and kids who were willing to have a crack at it.

With Maguire in top form, we don't really need him back there.

- Cornelius and Retzlaff would have had more games over the last three years.

Well, it's been a bit hard since they're both still inconsistent when brought into the senior team. But Cornelius is getting a go at least. Rotation policy in full swing.

- Polec and Karnezis would have been playing this week.

Karneis has a corked thigh or something, they didn't want to risk him.
As for Polec, he has played every game this season, and again, rotation policy with Yeo replacing him. How else are we going to rebuild?

- Rockliff, Redden and Rich wouldn't be feted in the way they are at our club, particularly as we pretty much get smashed in the clearances week in week out. These three are really solid footballers, but my goodness they get a lot of air put in their tyres by Lions supporters.

They are the future of our midfield, of course they would be under pressure to perform each week. But they're still not 100-game players, where you'd hope that they'd do that. That's where the recruiting pro-2009 really hurt us with no mature 23-27 year old midfielders.

- Consistent reserves form would have been rewarded.

It is. That's why Cornelius was named this week, and Hawksley was rewarded a couple of weeks ago.

- We would have identified a weakness in our ruck department long ago and we wouldn't have drafted Hudson.

If we didn't, we would have been a lot worse off. Leuenberger was in the prime of his career, and it was sad that he went. But it was good thinking to bring Hudson out of retirement in case the unthinkable does happen.

I am prepared to sit through loss after loss provided they weren't as embarrassing as some of our performances this year and we showed signs of improving, but at this stage it is clear that we are going backwards.

How is it going backwards if we lost by 16 points?
Sure, our first half was deplorable, but we showed what we can achieve with the right attitude and mindset.

 

[chopperduck]

was good that we didn't throw in the towel, but again, a qtr basically costs us the game. Really hope our players can lift their game and close this gap. Too much difference between our best and our worst.

 

[jackess]

How I hate that term. Honorable loss.

I don't think it was honorable but in the end it wasn't disgraceful like the first half. The Lions were never realistically in the game.

 

[Ceebee]

< 3 goal loss.

How on earth did that happen.

Because they played with some heart after halftime.
Not sure where it was in the first half.
I am feeling a bit better about where we are heading ,but god we need some consistency.

 

[chopperduck]

Still don't get people complaining that we are going backwards, yet want our seasoned players dropped to play kids. We are still at the bottom of our rebuild, and players such as Brown and Black still need to be replaced in the near future. We aren't going to see much improvement overall in 1 season, never mind 10 or so games. I think we are showing plenty, it took a bit for us to claw back in that game and not get humiliated. Granted, we shouldn't have been in that place to begin with, but when you play something like 10 players with under 20 games, being hot and cold is what you can expect.

Several of our players are showing improvement, and our drafting continues to excel with Longer and Yeo already showing plenty from our most recent crop. Personally, i'm loving Lester and Golby, both play as if they are 50-100 gamers, experience beyond their years. Hard at it and generally take the right option.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Is it worth reading all 600 posts that I have missed?

Yeah I didn't think so either...

 

[LionKing]

How I hate that term. Honorable loss.

Ditto...

 

[weevil]

Hard to know what to make of that. Total garbage first half, looked clearly the better team second half.

Think the final margin looks like a reasonable effort away from home, but the lopsided nature of the game makes it all feel pretty meaningless.

We clearly have an issue in the middle when the heat is on. Forwards and backs look good. Midfield looks good when they show up to play.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

seriously long post

Well said.

 

[MacMum]

Very small consolation.
Our capabilities, whilst not good enough to beat good teams, are certainly 100% better than we show for 75% of match time.
Considering our first half effort and then lose by 16 lowsy points.
Had we played the first half, we would have won.
A win gone begging again because of effort or the lack of.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly .....just thought 16pts way better than 58+

 

[Ironmonger]

A lot more negatives than positives from this game in my mind. Very low intensity game, really. I really don't think the pressure the Roos applied in the first half was all that special, but we made an enormous amount of mistakes, particularly coming out of defence, and that made us rushed every time we had the ball.

Watching on TV it was hard to figure out why this was, but we had three key position forwards and there still seemed to be a lack of leading options up on the wing.

Leaving Hudson out today was obviously a big mistake. Goldstein is out of form but he totally outclassed Longer, and it made life very difficult for our midfield.

Polkinghorne has to be dropped, doesn't he? I know he wasn't the only one today with dodgy disposal but he was just about the worst. I suppose he kept Wells reasonably quiet but he's not really a tagger.

I know the second half was better, but it really wasn't a contest. It seems we can only play good football against poor opposition.

We have a lot of problems.

 

[chopperduck]

Agree weevil, our defenders do a very good job considering how much ball they see each game, it's a credit to them we don't get blown away more often. Our midfield is still very much a work in progress, and it's not a surprise. Our leading mids barely have 50 games up, and their support are even younger. At least they show that they do have the talent to compete, but we have to get the rest to go along with it. I think we get hurt in the middle by not having those solid 5th, 6th, 7th midfielders rotating through that can keep the game going our way.

We need to learn how to read the game better and control the ball more when we need to as well. First half we couldnt' win the ball, and the few chances we did get it, we wasted it badly. A few times we got lucky, or lowered the eyes and moved the ball around instead of wasting a 50m kick forward to nothing, we broke them open and scored goals out of it. Norf played a loose man behind the ball all game, when that happens, you can't kick the ball forward like we did. It's up to the mids to control the temp of the game more and work hard both ways, we need them moving and giving options going forward, as well as covering options when the ball is coming back towards us.

We will cause an upset when we finally put 4 qtrs together.

 

[LionKing]

Still don't get people complaining that we are going backwards, yet want our seasoned players dropped to play kids. We are still at the bottom of our rebuild, and players such as Brown and Black still need to be replaced in the near future. We aren't going to see much improvement overall in 1 season, never mind 10 or so games. I think we are showing plenty, it took a bit for us to claw back in that game and not get humiliated. Granted, we shouldn't have been in that place to begin with, but when you play something like 10 players with under 20 games, being hot and cold is what you can expect.

Several of our players are showing improvement, and our drafting continues to excel with Longer and Yeo already showing plenty from our most recent crop. Personally, i'm loving Lester and Golby, both play as if they are 50-100 gamers, experience beyond their years. Hard at it and generally take the right option.

Well said Mate. Also Zorko & Green look exciting as well.