Chris Judd - The Crime and the Punishment - 4 Weeks

[The Old Dark Navy's]

And you really believe the reaction from blues fans are????

MMMM well happy navel gazing then. . .

You make not agree with their assessment but at least most are articulating their thoughts. Isn't that what discussion forums are for?

 

[jonbe54]

You make not agree with their assessment but at least most are articulating their thoughts. Isn't that what discussion forums are for?

Have no problem with any such ODN, its just amusing to hear rubbish pedalled as facts. If people want to believe fairy tales that's their business and if I'm amused by it that is my business.

For what its worth I think a lot of the abuse levelled at Judd is OTT, the reasons for this have been well discussed and both camps remain unconvinced. Judd has been tried and sentenced, 4 weeks is about what I expected considering his history but the howls of trial by media and AFL interference are enough to make a monk guffaw.

 

[rocket18]

Finally someone calls a spade a spade at Carlton, just caught a bit of the channel 10 sports report, looked like Ratten was giving a press conference and he said how the tackle was a cheap shot. This was probably why they didn't appeal it.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

That's better Spitta now we are at least on subject

Yes, I believe in the heat of the moment judd grabbed an arm to pull him off or push him away or similar with no intention to hurt him
See, to me, time factors are important here and in this case it is measured in mili seconds
we have all seen the footage a hundred times (today alone even) and I see that judd certainly grabbed the arm and lifted a quarter of the total degrees that the arm was rotated BUT when Judd was then grabbed by the roos teamates and pulled down /away the next damaging three quarters of the rotation was made and maybe the damaging three quarters of rotation.
Hey maybe Judd could have let go of the arm when he was being pulled off /down (though we tend to cling to somethiing when we lose our balance)
Everything that Judd done would have been a non issue if executed exactly the same if the roo player was on his back instead of his front.(including with someone on top of the player).heck it would have even been a "stranglehold" ( I presume that you really mean just grabbing with two hands) and a "twist" but no damage

I do accept (as many other posters on here have stated ) that if an injury occurred regardless of intent or not a price has to be paid but I don't believe that it is a bad character type thing that other OPS and the media
is trying to sensationalise

Exactly right. The potential for injury was exacerbated by the involvement of others but Judd was the one that chose to hold on to his arm and raise it up in a less than comfortable position. I was going to say unnatural position but the arm can be pulled back without injury and we occasionally see it when scraggers, excuse me ... taggers grab their opponents trailing arm. This was not in an unfolding play as such and Judd's actions were strange and unnecessary and as such he is only one to blame for the eventual exacerbation, but if causing pain was his aim all along, he certainly could have done more to achieve that aim. It was a little reserved for someone with that intent quite frankly.

People think you are excusing the act. That is not what is happening. It is merely adding balance to hysteria.

 

[Pedro59]

Actually there have been several well written replies to your OP on pages 3 and 4.

Instead you reply to the insulting ones and get on your high horse. Seems your also more interested in playing the man.

Where have I played the man ? are you just making things up ?
Had to work today but have endeavoured to respond to posters who are on subject

and have simply asked insulting responders to come back to the subject..is that a high horse ? Jeesh

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Have no problem with any such ODN, its just amusing to hear rubbish pedalled as facts.

Point them out and debate them then. It's the one lined sniping instead of reasoned debate that causes the problems IMO.

If people want to believe fairy tales that's their business and if I'm amused by it that is my business.

And if you post that amusement on a public forum and it is designed to denigrate a group of people, someone might bite back and that is their business.

For what its worth I think a lot of the abuse levelled at Judd is OTT, the reasons for this have been well discussed and both camps remain unconvinced. Judd has been tried and sentenced, 4 weeks is about what I expected considering his history but the howls of trial by media and AFL interference are enough to make a monk guffaw.

You don't think there is ever a case of trial by media? I believe one journo posted an article today potting his peers for doing exactly that (although I haven't read it yet).

 

[jonbe54]

Point them out and debate them then. It's the one lined sniping instead of reasoned debate that causes the problems IMO.

And if you post that amusement on a public forum and it is designed to denigrate a group of people, someone might bite back and that is their business.



You don't think there is ever a case of trial by media? I believe one journo posted an article today potting his peers for doing exactly that (although I haven't read it yet).

Of course there is trial by media, there is also media sycophancy which Judd has had plenty of, it all balances out. Did you read Bruce's articles? Have you listened to his moist commentary every time Judd goes anywhere near the ball? Did you listen to Bruce's nervous giggling in commentary as Judd was doing the deed? Judd has had a sensational run with the media for a long time, now a few have spoken out.

 

[Mateyman]

Dude, you're wrong right from the onset.
We've had enough polls through these boards to highlight peoples hate for Carlton above any other club.
There is no issue with that and you'll find this is exactly why many lose their sensibilities when it comes to anything Carlton.

Nothing I say here is going to change that, but you know when anything goes awry for Carlton that we'll get a little extra mindless topping, from many in these forums.
That's obvious reading through here, isn't it?

Mate, if you think people hate Carlton more than Collingwood, you're deluded. If you get asked who hyou barrack for and say Collingwood, you get an almost universal groan

 

[Hawkforce]

What hysterical, ignorant, frothing rubbish.

What, exactly, is incorrect about my post?

Do you deny that Carlton fans went ballistic about Lonergan? Or Wellingham? Or Ziebell?

Do you deny that Carlton fans have engaged in a ludicrous self-delusion about a media/AFL conspiracy against Carlton and Chriss Judd?

Try reading the thread on your board, mate.

You're digging even deeper. It's really embarrassing how far that once great club has fallen.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

'Judd is shattered'


http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/141468/default.aspx

Mark Robinson: It was pretty obvious, right at that moment, that the Kangaroos were filthy with Judd.Drew Petrie: Yeah. Yeah. It was good that the boys flew the flag and they needed to. I’ve seen the incident a couple of times, but if one of our blokes did that to [Judd] there would probably be an outrage.MR: If someone from the Kangaroos did that to Marc Murphy the football world would come down pretty heavily and say ‘What are you doing? That’s a little bit below the belt'.DP: Well said.


"Everybody knows how much I love Juddy. But the guy's flat down on his stomach, how the hell was he going to get a handball away?"

"I'm trying to get my head around it myself. At the time it was such an unnatural thing. I don't think I've ever seen that sort of action in my time in footy."

"You sort of sat there [Friday] night and thought 'What possible explanation of that can you have?'"
- Garry Lyon on Triple M

"There is almost no precedent for this kind of incident. That pressure point one in 2009 when he got three weeks that seems to be the kind of precedent. I don't know what kind of damage has been down to Adams shoulder, that might have some significance."

"The vision is too graphic, too unusual. There is no logical reason why you'd twist a guys arm at an angle where the guy clearly got in pain."

"Misconduct. I couldn't think he'd get off. No chance."
- Leigh Matthews on 3AW

"I think for a man so composed he [Judd] must be waking up this morning thinking 'What was I thinking' because that was ugly for the game and it was ugly for Leigh Adams."

"Not many blokes would even think to do that."

"I can't remember an incident like this in our time in football."
- Matthew Lloyd on 3AW

"You look at the vision and it was totally unnecessary, in fact the guy was defenceless on the ground, he had someone else laying in his back, to me it wasn't a good look and you certainly wouldn't want to see that happening. He'll get a couple of weeks for sure."

"It was really strange and not something you ever see, really."

"The big thing I think will be the medical report from North Melbourne. He went off the ground and he was gone for at least five minutes."
- Matthew Richardson on 3AW



"No third Brownlow for Chris Judd this year."

"From what I have seen, and the gist of what we have been talking about here I would think we are all of the view that he is going to be rubbed out ... it's just a matter of if he'll go for two or three."
- Mike Sheahan on 3AW

Hey Azreal, you gutless turkey, why resort to posting private messages ? Plenty of tossers like you around the place shouting out 10 deep in the crowd.


and I quote:

​

azreal have you Carlton flogs stopped crying about the 4 weeks yet? Lol @ your club, captain and dumbarse supporters!

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Judd has had a sensational run with the media for a long time, now a few have spoken out.

And not a minute too soon. It's pathetic the way the media gush all over that guy. Even when he makes a mistake (which is often) they still find a way to praise him for it.

I remember once he was caught like a rabbit in spotlight, holding the ball. The comment, "Look at the way Judd stood up in the tackle!!!". I mean, Who gives a toss? he was holding the ball!! Another time he received the ball from a team mate, kicked it through from 20 metres, straight in front ... the comment "Only Judd could have done that!!!".

It is sickening, and about time the other side was highlighted for a change.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Of course there is trial by media, there is also media sycophancy which Judd has had plenty of, it all balances out. Did you read Bruce's articles? Have you listened to his moist commentary every time Judd goes anywhere near the ball? Did you listen to Bruce's nervous giggling in commentary as Judd was doing the deed? Judd has had a sensational run with the media for a long time, now a few have spoken out.

Well geez, you get the odd commentator who talks up every decent player when commentating games. Let's not pretend Collingwood don't have players who commentators drool over. I guess that means it will be past due if the media, print, internet and TV turn on Pendlebury should he ever do something questionable. Those of us dwelling on BigFooty should just accept the vitriol because some commentator who doesn't even support our team, likes to wax lyrically whenever a player goes within cooee of the ball. I am dubious that most of the comments here come from posters being sick of over the top commentators.

Do you recall this place and the media going to town over the Rischitelli incident? I do. Is Judd at the top of the free kick received list? I don't think so. For such a quintessential inside midfielder, he averages 1.2 free kicks per game and 0.8 free kicks against. Pendlebury gets twice as many free kicks as he gives away. It is just so ridiculous that people think he is looked after by umpires.

Yet the same old excuses about Judd being a media darling and an AFL pet keep coming up. He has been suspended at least three times now and has copped plenty from plenty in the media. Caro is one that has had shots at Judd for everything she can think of over the years. That won't stop BF two years from now, claiming Judd is an AFL pet and media darling, the next time they take up their pitchforks and it doesnt go their way.

 

[outabounds]

This is proof that media hysteria influences the (independent) tribunal

I'm a jujitsu instructor of 20 odd years experience and that was not a chicken wing arm lock
The chicken wing arm lock has a bent elbow and can not be executed from a standing position by holding on to the wrist FFS (other wise the opponent would simply roll or stand up

So if that technique doesn't exist how can Judd be accused of doing it deliberately?

Judd was simply trying to pull him off the ball and if the roo player was on his back instead of his stomach everyone could see it for what it was

If anything the other roo players trying to pull Judd off of him whilst he was still holding the arm would have been what would have caused any damage

Also Did this roo player have any prexisting injury in that same region?

Nope no intent at all to do damage and unfairly beaten up by the media

No great fan of Carlton or Judd but Carlton shoulsd have taken on the tribunal with science

Great OP- This has been the biggest witch hunt since the Salem witch trials. We have a bloke that lined up Simpson and broke his jaw getting 3 weeks, we have another guy who carved someone up with a machete being able to play and Judd gets 4 weeks for grabbing a guys arm when he is sitting on the ball. Will never buy a Herald Sun again after the crap that Mark Robinson spun in yesterdays paper- one of the biggest tossers going around.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

And not a minute too soon. It's pathetic the way the media gush all over that guy. Even when he makes a mistake (which is often) they still find a way to praise him for it.

I remember once he was caught like a rabbit in spotlight, holding the ball. The comment, "Look at the way Judd stood up in the tackle!!!". I mean, Who gives a toss? he was holding the ball!! Another time he received the ball from a team mate, kicked it through from 20 metres, straight in front ... the comment "Only Judd could have done that!!!".

It is sickening, and about time the other side was highlighted for a change.

What a terrible justification for turning around and assassinating a bloke's character. Oh commentators gush over him for the most basic of skills. Yeah, they do sometimes and even I cringe. However, if gushing over basic skills is a reason for the negative media campaigns (and it is not the first no matter how much people pretend it is), then I guess you will have no problem every time Buddy and Cyril are smacked around by the media.

 

[Max zero]

To be honest, you would not have a single clue as to the humility of most Carlton supporters. You form your opinions based on isolated posts on BigFooty or perhaps the odd loudmouth at a game. You think that if somebody dares to disagree with a negative assessment of their team that you happen to hold (and therefore consider to be right) that they lack humility.

Most of the revelling in hatred comes when we are under siege and do not get fair opportunity to discuss against the tide. In the end, what choice do you have but to say ' **** 'em ' and fight back by embracing the hate. We are not the only supporters to do this. Most of us see this everyday on the boards but as an Eagles supporter, you need not take any notice of most of it unless it suits.

Perhaps I should be looking for the worst elements amongst Eagles supporters and tarring you with the same brush. Pure ignorance.

Why so upset? You as a Carlton moderator are a prime source of the dislike of Carlton on these boards. The moderating on the Carlton boards is a joke and before you claim that I am one of those people banned from the Carlton board a quick check will show that I am not.

I don't think Carlton (and their fans) lack humility because they disagree with me, I think that because they lack humility. Even with caught blatantly cheating they whined that the penalties were too harsh. They are whining now that Judd's penalty was too harsh. Do the math on Intentional, serious impact and body contact with 30% loading and tell how many weeks Judd would of gotten from the MRP.

The fact is Judd was lucky.

The excuses peddled here are laughable. The fact is while Judd grabbed the arm before Adam's went to ground he didn't move it back until he was prone. There was definitely a second movement pushing the arm back and behind. You could argue it was accidental yet to me I can't see how it could be. Judd of all people should know how shoulders should move. It's not like Adam's was in a position to handball (or even feign to handball).

 

[jonbe54]

Everything in balance ODN - the wheel turns, when Buckley was playing he copped worse than what Judd gets - much worse, yet was a media darling. I'm certainly not saying Judd is singular in that respect but he certainly has had an armchair ride over the years. Now its coming to an end as do all things. Rightly or wrongly he will be more closely scrutinised now and every action will be picked apart and criticized by the critics.

 

[outabounds]

This has been the biggest witch hunt since the Salem witch trials. We have a bloke that lined up Simpson and broke his jaw getting 3 weeks, we have another guy who carved someone up with a machete being able to play and Judd gets 4 weeks for grabbing a guys arm when he is sitting on the ball. Will never buy a Herald Sun again after the crap that Mark Robinson spun in yesterdays paper- one of the biggest tossers going around.

 

[Hawkforce]

This has been the biggest witch hunt since the Salem witch trials. We have a bloke that lined up Simpson and broke his jaw getting 3 weeks, we have another guy who carved someone up with a machete being able to play and Judd gets 4 weeks for grabbing a guys arm when he is sitting on the ball. Will never buy a Herald Sun again after the crap that Mark Robinson spun in yesterdays paper- one of the biggest tossers going around.

Yep. It's conspiracy. You are the victims. Definitely. No doubt about it.

Once great club, now a cess pit of self-pity and self-delusion.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Why so upset? You as a Carlton moderator are a prime source of the dislike of Carlton on these boards. The moderating on the Carlton boards is a joke and before you claim that I am one of those people banned from the Carlton board a quick check will show that I am not.

Dislike of Carlton has nothing to do with Carlton board moderation. What a cop out. You just admitted you aren't one that has been banned from the board, so how do you explain your dislike? Weak mate.

I don't think Carlton (and their fans) lack humility because they disagree with me, I think that because they lack humility. Even with caught blatantly cheating they whined that the penalties were too harsh. They are whining now that Judd's penalty was too harsh. Do the math on Intentional, serious impact and body contact with 30% loading and tell how many weeks Judd would of gotten from the MRP.

So if you disagree with the severity of something or the classification of something, you lack humility? I'm guessing Eagles fans were totally fine with Cousins' 12 month suspension? You are surely having a lend.

The fact is Judd was lucky.

Do you know what a fact is?

The excuses peddled here are laughable. The fact is while Judd grabbed the arm before Adam's went to ground he didn't move it back until he was prone. There was definitely a second movement pushing the arm back and behind. You could argue it was accidental yet to me I can't see how it could be. Judd of all people should know how shoulders should move. It's not like Adam's was in a position to handball (or even feign to handball).

With a free arm, it doesn't take much to partially raise the body and attempt to strike at the ball under you. With the arm held, you are right, he was in no position to do so.

You are expressing an opinion as to intent, and yes it is the prevailing opinion, but that doesn't make it absolute. It is not laughable to offer up other possibilities. Feel free to disagree but why would you want to stifle that discussion?

 

[Off The Couch]

This has been the biggest witch hunt since the Salem witch trials. We have a bloke that lined up Simpson and broke his jaw getting 3 weeks, we have another guy who carved someone up with a machete being able to play and Judd gets 4 weeks for grabbing a guys arm when he is sitting on the ball. Will never buy a Herald Sun again after the crap that Mark Robinson spun in yesterdays paper- one of the biggest tossers going around.

And it doesn't help when Carlton supporters continue to post this sort of stuff

 

[outabounds]

Yep. It's conspiracy. You are the victims. Definitely. No doubt about it.

Once great club, now a cess pit of self-pity and self-delusion.

You got the first bit right- reading the papers the last couple of days, you could be excused for thinking Judd was a rapist.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Everything in balance ODN - the wheel turns, when Buckley was playing he copped worse than what Judd gets - much worse, yet was a media darling. I'm certainly not saying Judd is singular in that respect but he certainly has had an armchair ride over the years. Now its coming to an end as do all things. Rightly or wrongly he will be more closely scrutinised now and every action will be picked apart and criticized by the critics.

Again, it is all about perception. From my perspective, Judd's ride stalled over the Rischitelli scrutiny, the booze cruise, journos like Caro questioning his captaincy. These things didn't suddenly not happen because Bruce and some of his mates, ooh and aah when he injects himself into the play.

 

[Hawkforce]

You got the first bit right- reading the papers the last couple of days, you could be excused for thinking Judd was a rapist.

Nope. Just a guy who repeatedly makes cowardly violent attacks on defenceless players.

You guys seem to be missing this small but vital point.

 

[jonbe54]

Again, it is all about perception. From my perspective, Judd's ride stalled over the Rischitelli scrutiny, the booze cruise, journos like Caro questioning his captaincy. These things didn't suddenly not happen because Bruce and some of his mates, ooh and aah when he injects himself into the play.

Well I guess we have to agree to disagree on that, as you say its all about perspective.

 

[wilsonmatic]

2-3 weeks would have been sufficient imo.. all he actually did was bend the bloody guys arm back. GET REAL SOOKS!!!