North Fined $20,000 - Ridiculous

[GarnerSmash]

An alternative view is that an investigator employed full-time by the AFL, who wants to interview a doctor who is not employed full-time by a club, ought to be able to schedule interviews around that doctor's hospital schedule.

An AFL Investigators time is much, much more valuable than that of a doctor working at a hospital ffs.

 

[jacko57]

The Blues with Kreuzer and Freo with Sandi are in huge trouble. They both run out looking like they have been KOed.

That's what annoys me about this saga : other clubs have sent players back on the ground who appear to be concussed, and the AFL ignores it. Either it's an issue for all clubs, or it isn't.

Plus the fact that it dragged on for what, 3 months? I'd be surprised if the delay was purely due to North officials dragging their heels.

 

[ziad]

People trying to defend North are morons. They didn't get fined for nothing and noone is out to get them.

New WHS legislation isn't yet adopted in Vic but has been in most other states. AFL are likely to be abiding by national legislation and will be aware of their legal responsibilities.

Norf got off lightly.

 

[GarnerSmash]

New WHS legislation isn't yet adopted in Vic but has been in most other states. AFL are likely to be abiding by national legislation and will be aware of their legal responsibilities.

Norf got off lightly.

Why exactly?

 

[mufassa]

That's what annoys me about this saga : other clubs have sent players back on the ground who appear to be concussed, and the AFL ignores it. Either it's an issue for all clubs, or it isn't.

Plus the fact that it dragged on for what, 3 months? I'd be surprised if the delay was purely due to North officials dragging their heels.

Jack Ziebell got 4 weeks for knocking our Aaron Jospeh who came back on and played the game out.

 

[Underdog]

An alternative view is that an investigator employed full-time by the AFL, who wants to interview a doctor who is not employed full-time by a club, ought to be able to schedule interviews around that doctor's hospital schedule.

Don't agree. As a club doctor, he has made a commitment to the Kangaroos and the AFL. Part of that commitment is to fully cooperate with the AFL with regard to investigations. If he cannot fulfil that commitment then it's his fault.

You're just peddling excuses with emotive rubbish.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Don't agree. As a club doctor, he has made a commitment to the Kangaroos and the AFL. Part of that commitment is to fully cooperate with the AFL with regard to investigations. If he cannot fulfil that commitment then it's his fault.

You're just peddling excuses with emotive rubbish.

AFL: Hello doctor, you have an appointment to meet with us at 1.30 next Wednesday. Please ensure you can make it.
Doc: Look, I am booked in to do a surgery that day, I'm afraid I will need to reschedule. How is Thursday at 1.30 for you?
AFL: No. You must cooperate and attend at the time requested.
Doc: But the surgery has been booked for months and I am best prepared to undertake the operation. I am afraid I must reschedule.
AFL: Your response does not compute. Error message 151. Error message 151. Exterminate, EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE

 

[mufassa]

Don't agree. As a club doctor, he has made a commitment to the Kangaroos and the AFL. Part of that commitment is to fully cooperate with the AFL with regard to investigations. If he cannot fulfil that commitment then it's his fault.

You're just peddling excuses with emotive rubbish.

Down tools on a life saving op because the AFL clowns are waiting for a statement about something that did not happen? Lets hope it is not you or a family member that have their life risked to fulfill the commitment to the all powerful AFL.

We want to speak to the doctor NOW!!

 

[Underdog]

B Tron, you have no idea that the conversation went in that manner so let's not pretend that your defence is based on fact.

Your club has admitted it should have handled the situation better.

 

[Mofra]

Gotta protect the head...to avoid getting sued in the future by brain damaged players.

But if they sued the AFL, they'd get kicked off the AFL rules committee

 

[Underdog]

Down tools on a life saving op because the AFL clowns are waiting for a statement about something that did not happen? Lets hope it is not you or a family member that have their life risked to fulfill the commitment to the all powerful AFL.

A) You don't know he had a life saving op. Neither does the AFL. Again, you're just using emotive excuses with no factual basis.
B) If this was explained to the AFL and he offered an alternative ASAP, I'm sure they'd understand.

Regardless, at the end of the day, the Kangaroos and the doctor have a commitment to the AFL. It is their fault if they do not follow it.

How many organisations do you really think would be satisfied with hindrance to their business because their contract terms are being contravened by their supplier/support service? The reasons for the supplier/support service contravening the obligations are not relevant.

Seriously, your defence is simply not how the world works.

 

[mufassa]

B Tron, you have no idea that the conversation went in that manner so let's not pretend that your defence is based on fact.

Your club has admitted it should have handled the situation better.

Of course we admitted it should have been handled better. We still have the threat of another 10 grand for the next 3 years. Most people will say what you want while a gun is held to their heads.

 

[Underdog]

Of course we admitted it should have been handled better. We still have the threat of another 10 grand for the next 3 years. Most people will say what you want while a gun is held to their heads.

If you really disagreed you'd say "We hope to further clarify with the AFL the expectations on clubs and players as we felt we responded in a timely manner" much how coaches do with regard to rules.

That's hardly going to give you a $10,000 fine because that's not what it was suspended for.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I

B Tron, you have no idea that the conversation went in that manner so let's not pretend that your defence is based on fact.

Your club has admitted it should have handled the situation better.

Of course. The AFL has told us so. We know what that means.
Stating that the AFL could not, nor should not reschedule a meeting with someone whose primary employment is not in the AFL environment, but in a hospital where he is employed as a doctor and is unable to attend at the time requested because of hospital commitments is both ridiculous and naive.

The AFL are not the Gestapo.

Well, kinda, but not.

 

[mufassa]

A) You don't know he had a life saving op. Neither does the AFL. Again, you're just using emotive excuses with no factual basis.
B) If this was explained to the AFL and he offered an alternative ASAP, I'm sure they'd understand. (Guessing with no factual basis - we are dealing with idiots)

Regardless, at the end of the day, the Kangaroos and the doctor have a commitment to the AFL. It is their fault if they do not follow it. (Again if you are on the table when the clowns are knocking where do you want the person with your life in their hands? Laughing at stupid questions or saving your life)

How many organisations do you really think would be satisfied with hindrance to their business because their contract terms are being contravened by their supplier/support service? (Did you send a player out with concession? No I did not. We as clowns dont believe you and as a hindrance give us $10k.)


Seriously, your defence is simply not how the world works.(The world I want to live in is innocent until proven guilty)[/quote]

 

[mufassa]

If you really disagreed you'd say "We hope to further clarify with the AFL the expectations on clubs and players as we felt we responded in a timely manner" much how coaches do with regard to rules.

That's hardly going to give you a $10,000 fine because that's not what it was suspended for.

No we read a pre written script handed to us by the AFL clown department to read out or cop the full 20k.

We already got a 10k fine for not co-operating enough in an investigation that proved we did nothing wrong.

 

[Underdog]

Stating that the AFL could not, nor should not reschedule a meeting with someone whose primary employment is not in the AFL environment

You don't know that they weren't open to it. Perhaps the club or doctor did not provide a valid alternative. Perhaps they fobbed the AFL off and didn't keep an open dialogue.

but in a hospital where he is employed as a doctor and is unable to attend at the time requested because of hospital commitments is both ridiculous and naive.

The fact his primary employment is in a hospital is your problem. I'm sure you could find other medical professionals that would have a workload more appropriate for also committing to the requirements of the AFL.

The below article tends to suggest that the issues were more then pure interview based.

North was fined $20,000 for the tardy way it responded to the AFL investigation into the treatment of Hansen and failed to promptly pass on all relevant information and documentation to the league's investigators.
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/903006/tardy-kangaroos-fined-20000/?cs=12

 

[Underdog]

No we read a pre written script handed to us by the AFL clown department to read out or cop the full 20k.

We already got a 10k fine for not co-operating enough in an investigation that proved we did nothing wrong.

More speculation...

And yes, I do understand that much of my argument is speculation.

The point being that the defence used by Kangaroos supporters suggest that their opinion is based on fact and are therefore being screwed when they quite frankly wouldn't have the slightest idea.

 

[Slattery_20]

An AFL Investigators time is much, much more valuable than that of a doctor working at a hospital ffs.

Ridiculous.
Apparently it's cost about $10k (and another $10k suspended) for that doctor to find an hour or two to ask questions.

I honestly can't believe the story that you/Tas et al are putting about, btw, that it was only scheduling.

Has to be more to it. Yeah he's a doctor, yeah he's busy, but he obviously has enough flexibility to fit games, training sessions, probably follow-up checks etc into his schedule on a weekly basis - so why can't he find an hour or three, within a 12 week period, to answer their questions?

 

[GarnerSmash]

The fact his primary employment is in a hospital is your problem. I'm sure you could find other medical professionals that would have a workload more appropriate for also committing to the requirements of the AFL.

I'm sure North could but there is no such requirement made by the AFL that they do so. A professional organisation does not crack the shits because the person they want to interview is busy. Your assertion that the AFL have a right to be put out by this fact is daft and moronic.

 

[blueboy25]

Jack Ziebell got 4 weeks for knocking our Aaron Jospeh who came back on and played the game out.

That is incorrect.

Joseph copped the hit late in the 2nd quarter and played on until half time. During the break Jospeh complained of concussion like symptoms and the Dr diagnosed as delayed concussion and he was subbed out of the game and didn't play any part in the 2nd half.

 

[Underdog]

I'm sure North could but there is no such requirement made by the AFL that they do so.

Then it's your own problem if you employ someone who cannot comply with the AFL rules.

A professional organisation does not crack the shits because the person they want to interview is busy.

A professional organisation certainly does get upset when it's contract conditions are violated by the other contractual party.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Ridiculous.
Apparently it's cost about $10k (and another $10k suspended) for that doctor to find an hour or two to ask questions.

I honestly can't believe the story that you/Tas et al are putting about, btw, that it was only scheduling.

Has to be more to it. Yeah he's a doctor, yeah he's busy, but he obviously has enough flexibility to fit games, training sessions, probably follow-up checks etc into his schedule on a weekly basis - so why can't he find an hour or three, within a 12 week period, to answer their questions?

The fine is not about that as such. It is moreso about tardiness from the club in responding to the AFL directly and the perceived attitude the North were giving off to the AFL about the whole investigation. North were stupid for not giving the investigation the respect the AFL wanted them to. I am sure you are aware that face is very important to the AFL and even though there was no case to answer re the concussion of Hansen, or lack thereof, North paid the price, a small one, for being petulant about being questioned on this. There was significant displeasure at the AFL questioning the call of the doctors decision on the scene but North should have been wise enough to toe the line and make all the right noises.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Then it's your own problem if you employ someone who cannot comply with the AFL rules.



A professional organisation certainly does get upset when it's contract conditions are violated by the other contractual party.

Please, enlighten me to what rules have not been complied with and what contractual obligations have been violated. And please, avoid speculation.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Please, enlighten me to what rules have not been complied with and what contractual obligations have been violated. And please, avoid speculation.

Failing to cooperate with an investigation