Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

[Bennett.]

I require a justification for your preposterous assertion that you understand my being more acutely than I do. The hubris of the committed fantasist laid bare.

Edit: The bolded bit is the nub of your problem. You believe any actual thinking by you to be prohibited. The word for such activity is, 'parroting'.

I never said I understand you more than yourself, you must be very insecure if somebody challenging your claims is taken as a personal attack.
You claim hubris on my part and then proceed to tell me what I believe instead? The word for such activity is irony.

 

[Roylion]

Apologies, I meant the Black Sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

It's possible that the Black Sea deluge MAY have inspired the various Mesopotamian flood stories, though this is far from certain. The oldest Mesopotamian flood story of Atrahasis written sometime between 1800 BC and 1700 BC (which was adapted by the writers of the later Epic of Gilgamesh) and then further altered into the story of Noah, when the Jews wrote Genesis in about the 6th century BC, probably in Babylon.

If we add up the genealogies in the Bible, Noah's flood occurred in about the year 2348 B.C. That's at the time of the Fifth Egyptian Dynasty and the Yao Dynasty of China. The Black Sea deluge is postulated to have occurred in about 5600 BC.

Noah is a myth, clearly taken from the older Mesopotamian flood myths. As is much of Genesis.

 

[skilts]

I never said I understand you more than yourself, you must be very insecure if somebody challenging your claims is taken as a personal attack.
You claim hubris on my part and then proceed to tell me what I believe instead? The word for such activity is irony.

I see no attack, just an exposure of an unwarranted assumption.

I have no interest in what you believe. Neither has anyone else. You are too dull to attract such interest.

Your mob think irony to be something done by dry cleaners. If you didn't, you'd realise that the whole of life had passed you by, while you were trying to stop it, with a view to getting a handle on it. Slow learners. Might as well have never been here.

 

[Bennett.]

I see no attack, just an exposure of an unwarranted assumption.

I have no interest in what you believe. Neither has anyone else. You are too dull to attract such interest.

Your mob think irony to be something done by dry cleaners. If you didn't, you'd realise that the whole of life had passed you by, while you were trying to stop it, with a view to getting a handle on it. Slow learners.

Ah a very Dawkins-esque response. No material, just attack the person.

How intelligent and enlightened of you.

 

[skilts]

Ah a very Dawkins-esque response. No material, just attack the person.

How intelligent and enlightened of you.

Sorry. You've engaged in a discussion with me. You have to take what you get. Live with it you pussy.

 

[Bennett.]

Sorry. You've engaged in a discussion with me. You have to take what you get. Live with it you pussy.

lol. Ok hero.

 

[hardon]

spartanwa, your input to some of my problems following would be appreciated:

• noah lived for 950 yrs without dying of infected teeth, cancer, worn out heart etc. impossible, no?
• noah built a fukin massive boat without succumbing to joint disintegration or other physical wear problems.
• built fukin massive ark without the use of a shipyard or drydock.
• could not have assembled 2 of all animals from every continent - koalas, kangaroos, bobcat, polar bear etc.
• could not have possibly accommodated dietary requirements of all animals - where do the gum leaves, bamboo, etc come from.
• 3 million (approx.) species of animals x 2 = 6 million actual animals on the ark.
• food for 6 million animals for 40 days on the ark. what? really?
• somehow all pairs make it on and off ark without tearing each other apart.
• somehow animals make it to 1000's of miles to far away continents across vast oceans after flood.

i'm sure there would be more problems. tell me how all this would be achieved please.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

well, no you can't. You can not definitively nor conclusively back up your claims, therefore you are either ignorant, deluded or a liar. Which one is it?

Ah a very Dawkins-esque response. No material, just attack the person.

How intelligent and enlightened of you.

Derp.

Tell me again how Noah collected pairs of animals, and got them all onto one big boat, please?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

spartanwa, your input to some of my problems following would be appreciated:

• noah lived for 950 yrs without dying of infected teeth, cancer, worn out heart etc. impossible, no?
• noah built a fukin massive boat without succumbing to joint disintegration or other physical wear problems.
• built fukin massive ark without the use of a shipyard or drydock.
• could not have assembled 2 of all animals from every continent - koalas, kangaroos, bobcat, polar bear etc.
• could not have possibly accommodated dietary requirements of all animals - where do the gum leaves, bamboo, etc come from.
• 3 million (approx.) species of animals x 2 = 6 million actual animals on the ark.
• food for 6 million animals for 40 days on the ark. what? really?
• somehow all pairs make it on and off ark without tearing each other apart.
• somehow animals make it to 1000's of miles to far away continents across vast oceans after flood.

i'm sure there would be more problems. tell me how all this would be achieved please.

God's will, buddy.

Don't trying and bring intelligent or rational thought into Spartan's world. He'll implode.

 

[Bennett.]

spartanwa, your input to some of my problems following would be appreciated:

• noah lived for 950 yrs without dying of infected teeth, cancer, worn out heart etc. impossible, no?
• noah built a fukin massive boat without succumbing to joint disintegration or other physical wear problems.
• built fukin massive ark without the use of a shipyard or drydock.
• could not have assembled 2 of all animals from every continent - koalas, kangaroos, bobcat, polar bear etc.
• could not have possibly accommodated dietary requirements of all animals - where do the gum leaves, bamboo, etc come from.
• 3 million (approx.) species of animals x 2 = 6 million actual animals on the ark.
• food for 6 million animals for 40 days on the ark. what? really?
• somehow all pairs make it on and off ark without tearing each other apart.
• somehow animals make it to 1000's of miles to far away continents across vast oceans after flood.

i'm sure there would be more problems. tell me how all this would be achieved please.

Pre-flood people apparently lived a long time - who knows?
Noah and his family were able to build it. Wow. How did people build housing for themselves without the use of plans, etc etc . Silly point.
It's been calculated that 16-2000 animals only woud have been needed.
Biblically, the animals came to the ark. Who knows again? Migratory instinct?
I'm sure that after all his work on building it, that he wouldn't have considered food needs??
People also crossed thousands of miles as well.

I'm sure though that I'm obviously stupid and incapable of thought just because I have
a different opinion though.

 

[hardon]

God's will, buddy.

Don't trying and bring intelligent or rational thought into Spartan's world. He'll implode.

i have tried to press for the POSITIVE case for the belief in god, flood story and others. spartanwa asked me why i struggle with the bible as a satisfactory case for an explanation of the world we observe. i have now responded with serious questions and i hope he will address these for starters in a sensible manner so we can evaluate the likelihood of noah achieving the feat.

 

[Bennett.]

Derp.

Not at all. Unless you are absolutely correct, and we both know that's not possible.
What other options are there?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Pre-flood people apparently lived a long time - who knows?
Noah and his family were able to build it. Wow. How did people build housing for themselves without the use of plans, etc etc . Silly point.
It's been calculated that 16-2000 animals only woud have been needed.
Biblically, the animals came to the ark. Who knows again? Migratory instinct?
I'm sure that after all his work on building it, that he wouldn't have considered food needs??
People also crossed thousands of miles as well.

I'm sure though that I'm obviously stupid and incapable of thought just because I have
a different opinion though.

Hang on a minute. Read that back to yourself.

Do you not see how ridiculous that is. Your opinion isn't even a stable one. You say 'apparently' and 'who knows'. But you know its true, because it's in the bible, yeah?

"people lived a long time apparently....so 950years is possible, who knows". What? Who knows? 950 years! You think that's just a couple of years longer than the average lifespan? So much so that you just flippantly write "people lived a long time, apparently". You are tripping.

Migratory instinct, to move towards a man-made Ark?! That's a doozy.

 

[Bennett.]

Of course it sounds ridiculous, but yet to be disproven. Anyway, just imagine, for a moment, IF the ark was ever found,
what would that do to your world view?

 

[MrCharisma]

spartanwa, your input to some of my problems following would be appreciated:

• noah lived for 950 yrs without dying of infected teeth, cancer, worn out heart etc. impossible, no?
• noah built a fukin massive boat without succumbing to joint disintegration or other physical wear problems.
• built fukin massive ark without the use of a shipyard or drydock.
• could not have assembled 2 of all animals from every continent - koalas, kangaroos, bobcat, polar bear etc.
• could not have possibly accommodated dietary requirements of all animals - where do the gum leaves, bamboo, etc come from.
• 3 million (approx.) species of animals x 2 = 6 million actual animals on the ark.
• food for 6 million animals for 40 days on the ark. what? really?
• somehow all pairs make it on and off ark without tearing each other apart.
• somehow animals make it to 1000's of miles to far away continents across vast oceans after flood.

i'm sure there would be more problems. tell me how all this would be achieved please.

You forgot that germs and viruses require a host , therefore all of them must have been carried by the animals on board . I'm assuming Noah himself would have had to host all the human exclusive diseases . Poor bugger.

 

[Roylion]

It's a preposterous story, and just goes to show the lengths of ridiculous story telling that parts of the bible go to.

Chapters 6–9 of Genesis cannot be taken literally. As I've already explained, it's based heavily on Mespotamian flood myths.

As well as that DNA studies have confirmed that there are living today millions of descendants, of thousands of women believed to lived between 12,000 - 45,000 years ago. If the Flood was to have destroyed all men on earth apart from Noah and his family, how is this accounted for? As I said if we add up the genealogies in the Bible, we have Noah's flood in about the year 2348 B.C. That's in the Fifth Egyptian Dynasty and the Yao Dynasty of China. There’s no record of a Universal Flood in those years, nor could there be, as everyone and everything would have been destroyed. This is clearly not the case. Clearly many of the earth's people are descended from people other than Noah and for them to exist today those ancestors must have survived the "Flood". Clearly the Bible states that all living things were destroyed except for those on the Ark, the humans consisting of the one family of eight people.

Many geologists also doubt whether there was a universal flood, because there is little to no geological evidence that such a flood occured. Other experts have raised further problems. Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating? Tree ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of a catastrophe during that time. Other experts have raised the problems of various types of rocks such as chalk deposits, that could not possibly be where they are now, such as the cliffs of Dover - if a Universal Flood had occured 2-3,000 years ago.

Stratigraphy, Seriation, Chronological Marking, Dendrochronology, radiocarbon dating, geological dating, Potassium-Argon dating, Fission track dating, Obsidian Hydration dating, Thermoluminescence dating, Archaeo- and Paleo-magnetism dating, Oxidized Carbon Ratios are all archaeological methods used to date various historical and pre-historical events. None of these methods used to date tens of thousands of geological samples from around the world have confirmed any global flood as postulated in Chapters 6-9 of Genesis.

 

[Roylion]

Of course it sounds ridiculous, but yet to be disproven.

Yet to be proven as well.

Anyway, just imagine, for a moment, IF the ark was ever found, what would that do to your world view?

I doubt 'the Ark' will ever be found, because it's likely to have never existed in the first place.

 

[MrCharisma]

Chapters 6–9 of Genesis cannot be taken literally. As I've already explained, it's based heavily on Mespotamian flood myths.

As well as that DNA studies have confirmed that there are living today millions of descendants, of thousands of women believed to lived between 12,000 - 45,000 years ago. If the Flood was to have destroyed all men on earth apart from Noah and his family, how is this accounted for? As I said if we add up the genealogies in the Bible, we have Noah's flood in about the year 2348 B.C. That's in the Fifth Egyptian Dynasty and the Yao Dynasty of China. There’s no record of a Universal Flood in those years, nor could there be, as everyone and everything would have been destroyed. This is clearly not the case. Clearly many of the earth's people are descended from people other than Noah and for them to exist today those ancestors must have
Stratigraphy, Seriation, Chronological Marking, Dendrochronology, radiocarbon dating, geological dating, Potassium-Argon dating, Fission track dating, Obsidian Hydration dating, Thermoluminescence dating, Archaeo- and Paleo-magnetism dating, Oxidized Carbon Ratios are all archaeological methods used to date various historical and pre-historical events. None of these methods used to date tens of thousands of geological samples from around the world have confirmed any global flood as postulated in Chapters 6-9 of Genesis.

This is where theist question the reliability of such dating methods . Of course science which doesn't disprove the bible is ok by them , especially if it saves their lives or makes life more convenient .

 

[hardon]

Pre-flood people apparently lived a long time - who knows?

i'm after the how though. people don't live that long. i know you assert they did, but how?

Noah and his family were able to build it. Wow. How did people build housing for themselves without the use of plans, etc etc . Silly point.

me? silly point? i'm referring to a boat 2/3 size of titanic. not anything like a house.

It's been calculated that 16-2000 animals only would have been needed.

no. your mob denies speciation through evolution. you need every single species alive today. 3 million or more.

Biblically, the animals came to the ark. Who knows again? Migratory instinct?

who knows? well i hope you know, you are the one that believes it! if you don't know then why would you believe it?

I'm sure that after all his work on building it, that he wouldn't have considered food needs??

but how did he get the 40 days supply of bamboo and pandas from china? and koalas and 40 days supply of gum leaves from australia?

People also crossed thousands of miles as well.

what? polar bears and kangaroos can't build boats to get to palestine.

I'm sure though that I'm obviously stupid and incapable of thought just because I have a different opinion though.

well i'm not going to be personally insulting to you.

your last point though makes me think you struggle with it a bit. surely you do a bit? your rational mind must be conflicted by the obviously mythical stories made up to glorify the people and cultures central to the bible, yes?

i don't mock a belief in a god as the first cause of an old universe as we see it. an impersonal creator who set it all in motion and has absolutely nothing more to do with it is not an outrageous belief. did it 13 billion years ago and is off doing something else now, never to be sighted. but belief in this young earth stuff is not a tenable position now.

 

[skilts]

lol. Ok hero.

Long overdue recognition.

 

[skilts]

Yet to be proven as well.



I doubt 'the Ark' will ever be found, because it's likely to have never existed in the first place.

I can think of no reason why the ark should still exist, if it ever did.

 

[skilts]

well i'm not going to be personally insulting to you.

Don't worry, I'll pick up the slack.

 

[hardon]

This is where theist question the reliability of such dating methods . Of course science which doesn't disprove the bible is ok by them , especially if it saves their lives or makes life more convenient .

have you read the RATE group reports? this is the young earth creationist attempt to discredit nuclear dating techniques. if you haven't then don't do so unless you wish to have creationists attempt to heck any critical thinking abilities you have, right out of your head.

 

[Pie eyed]

Of course it sounds ridiculous, but yet to be disproven. Anyway, just imagine, for a moment, IF the ark was ever found,
what would that do to your world view?

Basic math disproves the ark myth.
But...how did Noah get the Papuan cannibals back to Papua after the flood?
How did he discover Papua in order to get them in the first place?
How did he get there and survive the trip back?
How did he keep the virus alive which only lives in the brain and an onlly be transmitted/passed on by having your infected brain eaten by another cannibal?
Was Noah or one of his sons a cannibal?

OR.

Was Noah just a story which falls to pieces once you discover the whole world and the vast number of species not simply the domestic stock of the desert dwelling herdsman these cult stories were written to awe.

What's a cubit?

 

[hardon]

Basic math disproves the ark myth.
But...how did Noah get the Papuan cannibals back to Papua after the flood?
How did he discover Papua in order to get them in the first place?
How did he get there and survive the trip back?
How did he keep the virus alive which only lives in the brain and an onlly be transmitted/passed on by having your infected brain eaten by another cannibal?
Was Noah or one of his sons a cannibal?

OR.

Was Noah just a story which falls to pieces once you discover the whole world and the vast number of species not simply the domestic stock of the desert dwelling herdsman these cult stories were written to awe.

What's a cubit?

45.72 cm. based on the distance from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. duh!