Oppo Camp The non North football discussion thread II

[Artaxx]

Speaking of topping up with hacks...

McGuane, Matt White, Houli, Grigg, Jackson, Jake King, Chaplin etc. All in their best side. NONE there in 2 years. None. Anyone who thinks that mob is a threat in that time is delusional. They'll need 10 more blokes minimum and their seconds are terrible.

 

[King Corey]

Speaking of topping up with hacks...

McGuane, Matt White, Houli, Grigg, Jackson, Jake King, Chaplin etc. All in their best side. NONE there in 2 years. None. Anyone who thinks that mob is a threat in that time is delusional. They'll need 10 more blokes minimum and their seconds are terrible.

Houli is a decent player and the others at least perform roles.

I am probably with you on Jackson though. Everytime I've watched him he does some breathtaking gather at pace, breaks a tackle, spins around 3 blokes then kicks it out on the full.

Tigers have a core of very good players though and that might get them at least as far as St Kilda got a few seasons ago.

 

[Artaxx]

Houli is a decent player and the others at least perform roles.

I am probably with you on Jackson though. Everytime I've watched him he does some breathtaking gather at pace, breaks a tackle, spins around 3 blokes then kicks it out on the full.

Tigers have a core of very good players though and that might get them at least as far as St Kilda got a few seasons ago.

Houli was poor last night. He can't defend. He can run and get 30 vs mid-table sides, but he can't defend. Rance isn't a finals defender.

Who is their very good core? Cotchin is a freak, of course. Martin is a very good talent, not yet a very good player. Deledio still doesn't convince. Reiwoldt super talent, but too often is poor or sulks to be considered top liner. Who else is there?

 

[King Corey]

Houli was poor last night. He can't defend. He can run and get 30 vs mid-table sides, but he can't defend. Rance isn't a finals defender.

Who is their very good core? Cotchin is a freak, of course. Martin is a very good talent, not yet a very good player. Deledio still doesn't convince. Reiwoldt super talent, but too often is poor or sulks to be considered top liner. Who else is there?

I rate Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Riewoldt, Ellis, Maric. They then have a reasonable set of working class and young players around this lot to build on. Objectively you can't say their list is any worse than ours.

 

[Mr Reliable]

Overrated right now. Disposal is ordinary, he lacks penetration and accuracy and gets a massive leg-up from the umpires.

Good player but you're right about the umpires and their love affair with him. It's pretty sickening really.

 

[Mr Reliable]

I thought all umpires were eunuchs?

If they're not, they should be.

There'd be no shortage of volunteers willing to assist.

 

[LB2Snake]

It's depressing watching this.

I swear we had the makings of a good side for the 00s. Had we kept patient, drafted well rather than topping up with hacks and kept some form of contested footy at our core.. who knows.

You watch this clip and you had Boomer, Choppy, Teague, CJ, Turtle, Arch, Simpson, Jess, Grant, Petrie etc all of whom did or could've gone another 5 years+ with the motivation of being in a successful side.

And you had Wells yet to come on board.

Yeah giving up 3-4? first round draft picks wasn't the smartest move. Stuck us in the dark for years.
Cue pro laidley cronies.

 

[Spitta09]

Has been immense all year, slowed down when hurt his ankle but when the game was in the balance he stepped up. He is a gun.

This cotchin is a jet. Martin is the overrated one, goes missing far too often. Hasn't lived up to the hype yet at all

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Surely you're taking the piss?


The only knock on him, with regards to those who anoint him as the next Gary Ablett, is the fact that he lacks the ability to hit the scoreboard. Adding to that his field kicking has been underwhelming and his set shot execution has also been poor for the best part of three years

Not at all.

The question was how do you see him at the minute.

You've given some very valid reasons right there as to why anyone would question him. He's an accumulator for sure, but if thats all a mid had to do Sam Powers would still be kicking around.

He ranks pretty highly in the uncontested possessions for the year yet he continues to fudge his kicks under limited pressure (also 4th in clangers). Yes he's also ranking highly in total effective disposals but as you said he's accumulating a lot of ball so getting a lot of bites at the cherry so to speak.

Theres no denying when he's on he's a gun player but at the minute I still think the hype around him is over the top. Is this a lack of work rate? The coaches fault (if he was a NMFC player a lot on here would blame the coach), not getting enough help from his team mates? an injury niggle?

I think he's a gun player, but at the minute, I don't think he's the next coming of jeebus as a lot of fans would have you think. Still has a bit to work on. The other player's you mentioned... now thats another question all together.

 

[Roopassion]

Not at all.

The question was how do you see him at the minute.

You've given some very valid reasons right there as to why anyone would question him. He's an accumulator for sure, but if thats all a mid had to do Sam Powers would still be kicking around.

He ranks pretty highly in the uncontested possessions for the year yet he continues to fudge his kicks under limited pressure (also 4th in clangers). Yes he's also ranking highly in total effective disposals but as you said he's accumulating a lot of ball so getting a lot of bites at the cherry so to speak.

Theres no denying when he's on he's a gun player but at the minute I still think the hype around him is over the top. Is this a lack of work rate? The coaches fault (if he was a NMFC player a lot on here would blame the coach), not getting enough help from his team mates? an injury niggle?

I think he's a gun player, but at the minute, I don't think he's the next coming of jeebus as a lot of fans would have you think. Still has a bit to work on. The other player's you mentioned... now thats another question all together.

There was article on Leigh Mathews talking about him and his disposal is going at 54% average for the season. I watched him closely last night and he rushed a lot of his kicks were he had lots of time. He had a bit of Jz in just throwing it on the boot.

 

[Event Horizon]

Thoughts on Cotchin at the minute?

Not too dissimilar to Swallow as a player and in terms of where he is at.

 

[Gasometer]

At what time in a career is it acceptable to throw tantys like Riewoldt last night?

Duck had them occasionally, but earnt it.

Discuss.

 

[Artaxx]

At what time in a career is it acceptable to throw tantys like Riewoldt last night?

Duck had them occasionally, but earnt it.

Discuss.

Duck never did it to the detriment of the team. This bloke does it all the time and has done since he started. He'll let em down when the time comes. Be sure of it.

 

[Artaxx]

I rate Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Riewoldt, Ellis, Maric. They then have a reasonable set of working class and young players around this lot to build on. Objectively you can't say their list is any worse than ours.

That group doesn't win a flag. Not even close. I rate Ellis too, but he's a kid who starts as a sub alot and plays poor games. Maric is a middle of the road ruckman.

As for us against them, we've outperformed them since the start of the rebuilds each year. Not arguable. This year, we're yet to see. Flag chances given the lists, hand on heart, I think we cover them easily. Easily.

 

[shinboner magic]

At what time in a career is it acceptable to throw tantys like Riewoldt last night?

Duck had them occasionally, but earnt it.

Discuss.

Never.

Not on the ground at least.
Behind closed doors would be the only place.

 

[shinboner magic]

Never.

Not on the ground at least.
Behind closed doors would be the only place.

Actually it's time someone at North did a Paul chapman and say we are better than this.
Line in the sand time.

 

[Event Horizon]

Actually it's time someone at North did a Paul chapman and say we are better than this.
Line in the sand time.

Only someone who plays four quarters consistently is able to do that. That means only Swallow, Thompson, McMahon or LT.

 

[Black Diamond]

Only someone who plays four quarters consistently is able to do that. That means only Swallow, Thompson or McMahon.

Disagree. Those guys already play to their limit and have nothing more to give. It needs be an inconsistent performer like JZ who gives everyone a rocket, and can then lead by example.

 

[Event Horizon]

Disagree. Those guys already play to their limit and have nothing more to give. It needs be an inconsistent performer like JZ who gives everyone a rocket, and can then lead by example.

Inconsistent performer like Jack needs to get his own shit together first, before delivering rockets up anyone else's arse.

 

[Black Diamond]

Inconsistent performer like Jack needs to get his own shit together first, before delivering rockets up anyone else's arse.

There is much more Chapman in JZ than the others.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Speaking of topping up with hacks...

McGuane, Matt White, Houli, Grigg, Jackson, Jake King, Chaplin etc. All in their best side. NONE there in 2 years. None. Anyone who thinks that mob is a threat in that time is delusional. They'll need 10 more blokes minimum and their seconds are terrible.

How many of our best 22 will still be so in two years?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

It would be fascinating to read what some of this board's posters would say about our list in an alternative universe where they don't wear white and blue.

Adams would be a hack with two years left in his career - tops.
Atley would be a one-trick pony.
Cunnington would be a waste of a first-rounder.
Swallow would be a poor-man's Luke Ball.
Wells would be no better than Danyle Pearce.
Ziebell would be an overrated hack who should be traded to Sydney.

And that's just our midfield.

At what time in a career is it acceptable to throw tantys like Riewoldt last night?

Duck had them occasionally, but earnt it.

Discuss.

Harvey is 35 and still does it. He won't be out there tomorrow because he did something even stupider than a hissy fit.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

That group doesn't win a flag. Not even close. I rate Ellis too, but he's a kid who starts as a sub alot and plays poor games. Maric is a middle of the road ruckman.

As for us against them, we've outperformed them since the start of the rebuilds each year. Not arguable. This year, we're yet to see. Flag chances given the lists, hand on heart, I think we cover them easily. Easily.

I honestly think they are about the same place we were in 2009-10. Will mostly beat the teams they should, won't jag many against the top teams, and may well drop one or two they shouldn't to finish 9th. They've got a lot of players they have to shed before they're going to challenge, and a lot of young guys are going to need games to get up to speed.

Having said that, their core of top end talent in Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Delideo and Martin (perhaps) is better than ours. But let's see how they look when they start to get a more balanced 22.

 

[shinboner magic]

It would be fascinating to read what some of this board's posters would say about our list in an alternative universe where they don't wear white and blue.

Adams would be a hack with two years left in his career - tops.
Atley would be a one-trick pony.
Cunnington would be a waste of a first-rounder.
Swallow would be a poor-man's Luke Ball.
Wells would be no better than Danyle Pearce.
Ziebell would be an overrated hack who should be traded to Sydney.

And that's just our midfield.



Harvey is 35 and still does it. He won't be out there tomorrow because he did something even stupider than a hissy fit.

Your not a north fan.

What other alias have you got.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

How many of our best 22 will still be so in two years?

18 or so?