Mega Thread All AOD-9604 Discussion - Still Illegal but ASADA will not press charges on AOD9604 - McDevitt

[HBF]

Personally I think the information has been known all along by Baker and MacKenzie (and Wilson). They have milked this story to perfection (from a newspaper point of view), giving Essendon and Hird just enough rope to slowly hang themselves.

I think this is why Wilson has been so forthright, because she knew which cards were going to be dealt all along.

Essendon are really stuffed.

Says is right there.
Final nail in Essendons coffin could very well be what Robinson has to say tonight.
And I think Hirds as well.

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

But my key point is that you cannot go immediately to S0, you cannot do it - this is where Fahey has got it so wrong.

S0 says explicitly - go to the relevant section - do not come here if there's a relevant section.

If you have no data on the effects of a substance how can you class it as a PED?

 

[Cronos]

But my key point is that you cannot go immediately to S0, you cannot do it - this is where Fahey has got it so wrong.

S0 says explicitly - go to the relevant section - do not come here if there's a relevant section.

Your circular argument is getting worse. You just said:

You can't go immediately to S0.
If you look elsewhere - even if you don't find what you were looking for, you can't go back to S0.

So then, what is the purpose of S0?

 

[Barkly St End]

But at the time of this there was no proof if it was a PED or not ,hence the SO

But people are putting forward storng arguments that there is evidence that AOD contains certain properties, so no matter what you're reading of the Prohibited List, ASADA must reference S2, and take action pursuant to S2 if AOD does have those properties - ASADA cannot double dip - you can't conclude it has the properties contained in S2 then fall back on S0 - you can't do it.

 

[Cronos]

But people are putting forward storng arguments that there is evidence that AOD contains certain properties, so no matter what you're reading of the Prohibited List, ASADA must reference S2, and take action pursuant to S2 if AOD does have those properties - ASADA cannot double dip - you can't conclude it has the properties contained in S2 then fall back on S0 - you can't do it.

Nope. Done with you. Enjoy the rose hue given by those glasses you're wearing, and beware from things that may come from your periphery - you won't see them with those blinkers on.

Again, I get sucked in by the most obvious trolling.

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

But people are putting forward storng arguments that there is evidence that AOD contains certain properties, so no matter what you're reading of the Prohibited List, ASADA must reference S2, and take action pursuant to S2 if AOD does have those properties - ASADA cannot double dip - you can't conclude it has the properties contained in S2 then fall back on S0 - you can't do it.

The DR who had the knowledge to talk about it has said, it has no PE properties, the company on the other hand trying to get the patent said it improved muscle growth.

On the other side if WADA do not have the data on a substance they cannot say it falls under S2 until it is tested, so if it is not fit for human consumption yet it has to fall under S0 first until the tests are completed.

 

[Jade]

AFL wants to bring forward the start to the season next year to match NRL start by four weeks.....

9 x 22 = 198 + 1 bye = 23 rounds

8 x 25 = 200( and the TV deal is matched) + 2 byes = 27 rounds ...... need an extra 4 weeks. Hmmmmmm

Who wants to bet me Ess wont be playing next season?

Yeah I'll take that bet; I want your account closed if you are wrong.

 

[Barkly St End]

Your circular argument is getting worse. You just said:

You can't go immediately to S0.
If you look elsewhere - even if you don't find what you were looking for, you can't go back to S0.

So then, what is the purpose of S0?

I'm not the one with the circular argument - the Prohibited List itself contains the circular argument - I'm reading out to you what is contained in the wording of S0 (in English and French).

Just for good measure, here it is in Spanish (my mother tongue, well, one of three mother tongues):

Todo fármaco no incluido en las siguientes secciones de la Lista y sin aprobación vigente por ninguna autoridad gubernamental regulatoria de la salud para uso terapéutico en humanos....

Interestingly, and I've made this point once before, the French and Spanish versions include a verb that is somewhat different to the verb used in the English version, it's a subtle difference, but a difference nevertheless.

In jurisprudence, that subtle difference can become a yawning gulf.

 

[Barkly St End]

On the other side if WADA do not have the data on a substance they cannot say it falls under S2 until it is tested, so if it is not fit for human consumption yet it has to fall under S0 first until the tests are completed.

Once again - you cannot go directlly to S0 - it is written to be a last option only.

 

[Barkly St End]

Nope. Done with you. Enjoy the rose hue given by those glasses you're wearing, and beware from things that may come from your periphery - you won't see them with those blinkers on.

Again, I get sucked in by the most obvious trolling.

How can saying that a substance is addressed by S2 rather than S0 be seen as having rose coloured glasses?

If ASADA conclude that the substance is addressed by S2, and they have evidence of its use, they wll take action pursuant to S2.

All I am saying, and I have been consistent here, if ASADA concludes that S2 addresses AOD, then S0 is not applicable, cannot be applicable.

 

[evo]

Eduardo... Corrochio

"Casus....belli"

 

[2121]

I hope port finish 9th so we can have essendons spot in the finals so i can rub every essendons fans noses in it.... cheating dirty dogs.

 

[Baldur]

So Essendon had a 16 page report from the patent holder of AOD-9604 which said it was OK to use and this is their "letter" that makes every OK.

Facepalm.gif

 

[Cronos]

How can saying that a substance is addressed by S2 rather than S0 be seen as having rose coloured glasses?

If ASADA conclude that the substance is addressed by S2, and they have evidence of its use, they wll take action pursuant to S2.

All I am saying, and I have been consistent here, if ASADA concludes that S2 addresses AOD, then S0 is not applicable, cannot be applicable.

Hang on? This one's inconsistent from your normal argument. I see you changing very slightly as the decision comes to light.

The whole time you've been arguing that the drug is not prohibited, because it's addressed by section 2, and section 2 doesn't ban it.
This post, suddenly you've changed to

If ASADA conclude that the substance is addressed by S2, and they have evidence of its use, they wll take action pursuant to S2.

The only way you've been consistent over the whole argument is to say that AOD is ok, because it isn't banned by S2, and since it was considered by S2, S0 doesn't apply. You have NEVER said it's up to ASADA to decide on S2.

Ok, that's it 100%. Troll, waiting to lead up to a "but I told you so" moment. Confirmation right here that you didn't believe a word of your argument.

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

Once again - you cannot go directlly to S0 - it is written to be a last option only.

And they were informed to check on it's SO status as it wasn't currently on the prohibited list due to them not having any information about the drug, or is WADA meant to have a complete chemical rundown on every substance created each year as soon as the product is made?

 

[Barkly St End]

I hope port finish 9th so we can have essendons spot in the finals so i can rub every essendons fans noses in it.... cheating dirty dogs.

I would be embarassed to win a finals berth in those circumstances.

I would decline the invitation.

 

[LanceRomance]

Actually if that was true, again another failure.

recordings of a person, without that persons permission are not considered evidence and cant be used. in fact, if your club confirms it, they will be sued by the person recorded.

Crazytown at bomber land

And very very very low doesn't mean you won't get prosecuted

 

[Barkly St End]

And they were informed to check on it's SO status as it wasn't currently on the prohibited list due to them not having any information about the drug.

If someone gave that advice - it is incorrect advice - if a one section of the List applies, then quite clearly S0 becomes irrelevant.

 

[Oneiros]

I dunno about you guys, but to me this smells like a

SMOKING GUN

As long as its not NAKED GUN, because that scandal was very unpleasant.

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

If someone gave that advice - it is incorrect advice - if a one section of the List applies, then quite clearly S0 becomes irrelevant.

But if you don't know if it is a PED how can you say it is, you lead them to the SO clauses.

 

[Barkly St End]

Hang on? This one's inconsistent from your normal argument. I see you changing very slightly as the decision comes to light.

The whole time you've been arguing that the drug is not prohibited, because it's addressed by section 2, and section 2 doesn't ban it.
This post, suddenly you've changed to


The only way you've been consistent over the whole argument is to say that AOD is ok, because it isn't banned by S2, and since it was considered by S2, S0 doesn't apply. You have NEVER said it's up to ASADA to decide on S2.

Ok, that's it 100%. Troll, waiting to lead up to a "but I told you so" moment. Confirmation right here that you didn't believe a word of your argument.

No - you have misunderstood.

I have simply said that S2 addresses AOD.

Yes - we have sometimes had to debate the meaning of the key words in S0 - and that's fine - I appreciate that.

But - if people are making strong arguments about the properties of AOD - then it seems to me that gives greater weight to concluding that S2 addresses AOD, and therefore we are in an even stronger postion to conclude unequivocally that S0 cannot apply.

And that is what I have been saying consistently from day one: S0 does not and cannot apply the minute we reach a conclusion that another section addresses AOD.

I have argued that consistently from day one.

And stop saying you will never respond to me again - only to respond 2 minutes later.

 

[coryne]

I hope port finish 9th so we can have essendons spot in the finals so i can rub every essendons fans noses in it.... cheating dirty dogs.

Why would you want Port to finish 9th when they are already 1 game clear in the 8 ???



Anyway on topic, this could explain why Essendon have not leaked their "documentation" regarding the legality of AOD, which lead them to believe that they could use the drug. I wondered if said documents were from ASADA or Calzada, and it now looks like it may have been from the latter. The damning thing is they not only supposedly received an email stating it wasn't illegal to use (like illicit drugs are illegal to use), but they also got documentation stating it wasn't legal yet either. Again, like Dank, they ignored the information they didn't want to hear (documentation sent by the company) and went with the information they did (an email from a spokesperson). I mean if you had two contradictory pieces of information what would you go with, official documentation or an email ??? And if ANY of the documentation said you couldn't use it then why would you go near it at all ???



This shit is getting real ...............

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

Also even if your theory was correct they could still get them for using a product that wasn't TGA approved and do the same damage.
Also people are now looking at the drug closely which had never been done before this came out, so SO stands.

 

[sherb]

I would be embarassed to win a finals berth in those circumstances.

I would decline the invitation.

I don't think it's you they will be inviting though.

If it comes to that situation, of course the 9th placed club should participate in the finals.

It's not up to them to make any moral or philosophical statement by refusing the invitation.

 

[2121]

I would be embarassed to win a finals berth in those circumstances.

I would decline the invitation.

i wouldnt usually like it but because the way my essendon friends have thought nothing of there supplement program and how good and innocent there team is ill take it so i can have the last laugh right up untill next season