Mega Thread All AOD-9604 Discussion - Still Illegal but ASADA will not press charges on AOD9604 - McDevitt

[PieBeast]

The summary does not elaborate on whether the Thymosin referred to is the approved Thymosin Alpha or the banned Thymosin beta 4.

Probably the only reason ASADA's report was interim, looking forward to it completion.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Sam Newman's idiotic defence of Essendon explained

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl...tel-having-lunch/story-fni5f22o-1226697352452

Not sure what's worse, having Newman or Dank in their corner.

Essendon is being run by a fool or fools. If they look like defeating the AFL on legal technicalities, WADA will come over the top and it'll be goodnight, players.

 

[Achilles Heel]

On governance, no argument from me, I was a big fan of the Ziggy report (which many thought was a joke) and believed sanctions would result from it alone. All along though I've wanted sanctions to wait until all investigations were over.

Even on governance, if more info is found by asada it could dramatically change any sanctions the afl gives on governance issues.

As an example, if dank did talk, each of the following would IMO dramatically change any punishment the afl hand down based upon the info we are aware of today:

1) Dank confirms with tapes Hird specifically instructed him to engineer a ped program that would avoid detection, and to run it at arms length to allow deniability

2) dank confirms no ped activity actually occured at efc. He sold them vitamins, but falsely invoiced them for supplements which had significantly higher prices. To get away with this, he supplied false documents attesting to the validity of the supplements.

3) dank he was effectively allowed to run his own program, with no cheques or balances, and the encouragement of management

At the moment, it appears (3) is the go, but if Hird cops 6 months, it would be a joke if it's later found he was instrumental in the program.

Personally I think asada are done bar dank (who I don't think will ever talk), but if they genuinely have more, they should not have issued the interim report. Fwiw I think this was just expediency for the afl to try and get a ban in before the finals, which may compromise the whole case against efc.

We don't want the club avoiding sanction on a technicality like denial of natural justice

yeah......nah

 

[jenny61_99]

I'd perfer to let the players tell about how they feel about how they felt they were treated. But some ferrals on a internet forum not taking into account those in the middle of this, since they have barely spoken on the issue.

Ferals today!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

yeah......nah

So you are 100% certain that the ongoing investigation will produce zero information that will better allow us to know the knowledge and involvement of the four individuals in the program?

 

[DonsRule]

Ferals today!

That quote was a while ago, not 'today'

 

[NikkiNoo]

Accessing unapproved products

There are a number of ways that patients can gain access to products that have not been approved for use in Australia.

http://www.tga.gov.au/hp/access.htm

It looks like it's clearly not approved to me.Good luck with that one Essendon

I have always thought once I heard about AOD being used that Essendon's biggest problem might be with the TGA.

In order to use it they would have to have approval from the TGA; therefore, there would be a paper trail with the TGA if this were so. This paper trail would be quite detailed about who gets what etc. If they admit to using it and do not have any of these approvals, they could and should be in big trouble, very big trouble.

 

[jenny61_99]

That quote was a while ago, not 'today'

Phew. Didn't feel like a feral today.

So what wonderful adjective are we known as today?

 

[jenny61_99]

I have always thought once I heard about AOD being used that Essendon's biggest problem might be with the TGA.

In order to use it they would have to have approval from the TGA; therefore, there would be a paper trail with the TGA if this were so. This paper trail would be quite detailed about who gets what etc. If they admit to using it and do not have any of these approvals, they could and should be in big trouble, very big trouble.

Because WADA deem it prohibited, any athlete would also require a TUE for use. Preparation by a compounding chemist doesn't change its status on the WADA prohibited list.

 

[IanW]

Because WADA deem it prohibited, any athlete would also require a TUE for use. Preparation by a compounding chemist doesn't change its status on the WADA prohibited list.

This, and while there are ways you can use experimental drugs in Australia, that doesnt stop them being experimental drugs.

 

[Barkly St End]

Ah, next time give a hint as to what you're replying to.

That was your last post and your first post on this subject, so hardly took hours to find. Not the first time you've made a similar post about never changing your story.

I'm not sure what you are comprehending - I was always about any charge under S0 being easily challenged - always - no inconsistency whatsoever.

Here is the thread Chief started for me (not at my instigation I might add):
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ication-of-the-s-0-clause-to-aod9604.1022903/

In fact - every 2nd post to me was about how Essendon would NOT want to have me defending them (which I readily accept, as I have no legal training).

In the meantime, our resident legal eagles on this board came up with such pearlers:

• but Fahey said this
• WADA said that
• you can't challenge WADA - it's impossible
• don't forget what happened to that push bike rider

In the end, these so-called experts were wide of the mark. Their references were worth diddly squat - their expert opinions weren't worth jack. They were the doyens of the baying mob - but they let the mob down badly.

Never mind - I see myself as an educator - I'm an educator of people. I'm alway looking forward, wanting to help people in their self-improvement.

With the indulgence of the community, I will prepare a brief paper which people can use as a reference tool in learning how to analyse complex issues. I will try and educate people on learning to pick up what is really important - what really matters - the things which will impact the final outcome - and the stuff which they can ignore.

With some guidance, I'm sure people can learn this skill. They may not be as good at it as I am, but they can improve.

 

[Cronos]

Interesting report in there too that the Bombers lawyers will argue that they have a loophole with the compounding chemist so AOD doesn't come under S0 - no mention of getting the all clear from ASADA.

If WADA say it's still prohibited, doesn't this then become an aggravated offence as they are clearly trying to exploit a loophole?

 

[Cronos]

I'm not sure what you are comprehending - I was always about any charge under S0 being easily challenged - always - no inconsistency whatsoever.

Here is the thread Chief started for me (not at my instigation I might add):
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ication-of-the-s-0-clause-to-aod9604.1022903/

I'm stopping reading this post right here, because as usual, you've ignored the fact that your new thread was posted August 2. Your original argument started July 17, two and a half weeks earlier. The original argument was that S0 clearly said that once anyone even looked at Section 2, that S0 was irrelevent. Not that there was a grey area, you were 100% convinced.

 

[Football Pope]

On governance, no argument from me, I was a big fan of the Ziggy report (which many thought was a joke) and believed sanctions would result from it alone. All along though I've wanted sanctions to wait until all investigations were over.

Even on governance, if more info is found by asada it could dramatically change any sanctions the afl gives on governance issues.

As an example, if dank did talk, each of the following would IMO dramatically change any punishment the afl hand down based upon the info we are aware of today:

1) Dank confirms with tapes Hird specifically instructed him to engineer a ped program that would avoid detection, and to run it at arms length to allow deniability

2) dank confirms no ped activity actually occured at efc. He sold them vitamins, but falsely invoiced them for supplements which had significantly higher prices. To get away with this, he supplied false documents attesting to the validity of the supplements.

3) dank he was effectively allowed to run his own program, with no cheques or balances, and the encouragement of management

At the moment, it appears (3) is the go, but if Hird cops 6 months, it would be a joke if it's later found he was instrumental in the program.

Personally I think asada are done bar dank (who I don't think will ever talk), but if they genuinely have more, they should not have issued the interim report. Fwiw I think this was just expediency for the afl to try and get a ban in before the finals, which may compromise the whole case against efc.

We don't want the club avoiding sanction on a technicality like denial of natural justice

We disagree on whether we believe ASADA are done investigating the EFC. They'd have player & management interviews in transcripts to wade through...From that, they may choose to exercise the new powers for further investigation and leave it open in case new information comes to light...
Wasn't Ryder called to AFL house to explain to the AFL what he meant in his ASADA interview?.

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[Ned_Flanders]

We disagree on whether we believe ASADA are done investigating the EFC. They'd have player & management interviews in transcripts to wade through...From that, they may choose to exercise the new powers for further investigation and leave it open in case new information comes to light...
Wasn't Ryder called to AFL house to explain to the AFL what he meant in his ASADA interview?.

Not sure on the last. When this started though ASADA said it would take about a month to review all info and draft the final report. That time is pretty much done now.

Their focus is on Cronulla again anyway, so hitting the pause button on closing off is no skin off their nose. If dank comes forward, great. if not, nothing changes, so why rush. Pisses the rest of us wanting to move on, but its the public service for you (just be grateful we aren't wanting to install pink batts!)

 

[Football Pope]

Not sure on the last. When this started though ASADA said it would take about a month to review all info and draft the final report. That time is pretty much done now.

Their focus is on Cronulla again anyway, so hitting the pause button on closing off is no skin off their nose. If dank comes forward, great. if not, nothing changes, so why rush. Pisses the rest of us wanting to move on, but its the public service for you (just be grateful we aren't wanting to install pink batts!)

LOL....Nah, I believe I'd fail their entrance requirements...

The government have put in extra doss to expand ASADA.....Cronulla will have it's own investigation team.

 

[Football Pope]

Not sure on the last. When this started though ASADA said it would take about a month to review all info and draft the final report. That time is pretty much done now.

Their focus is on Cronulla again anyway, so hitting the pause button on closing off is no skin off their nose. If dank comes forward, great. if not, nothing changes, so why rush. Pisses the rest of us wanting to move on, but its the public service for you (just be grateful we aren't wanting to install pink batts!)

it also emerged Essendon ruckman Patrick Ryder had a brief meeting at AFL House on Thursday to clarify part of the statement he made when interviewed by ASADA.

​

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http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...all-on-hird-20130727-2qrac.html#ixzz2c5gSXmpQ​

​

 

[FyfesBoot]

Never mind - I see myself as an educator - I'm an educator of people. I'm alway looking forward, wanting to help people in their self-improvement.

With the indulgence of the community, I will prepare a brief paper which people can use as a reference tool in learning how to analyse complex issues. I will try and educate people on learning to pick up what is really important - what really matters - the things which will impact the final outcome - and the stuff which they can ignore.

With some guidance, I'm sure people can learn this skill. They may not be as good at it as I am, but they can improve.

The line between annoying yet intriguing troll and sanctimonious w***er - you just crossed it.

 

[jinny1]

AOD 9604 has the amino acid sequence YLRIVQCRSVEGSCGF, which is a peptide from the C-terminus of Human Growth Hormone (HGH), with an added N-terminal tyrosine.. How stupid can Dank and Hird to use it?? I mean Hird isn't a biochemist but Dank co-owns the Medical Rejuvenation Clinic Australia Pty Ltd which sells this peptide....Surely he knew he was basically giving them HGH?

And they still deny they gave their players prohibited drugs lol

 

[Anoncomment]

I love that Essendon have gone for the Big Footy defence, that because it can be obtained through other means in Australia, it is approved for therapeutic use. They are going to fail miserably with this defence. Only the TGA can provide this kind of approval. S0 does not refer to "not approved for therapeutic use, but if you can get it through other legal means that will be okay". Sorry Essendon, TGA approval or GTFO.

Amateurs.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

AOD 9604 has the amino acid sequence YLRIVQCRSVEGSCGF, which is a peptide from the C-terminus of Human Growth Hormone (HGH), with an added N-terminal tyrosine.. How stupid can Dank and Hird to use it?? I mean Hird isn't a biochemist but Dank co-owns the Medical Rejuvenation Clinic Australia Pty Ltd which sells this peptide....Surely he knew he was basically giving them HGH?

And they still deny they gave their players prohibited drugs lol

It's not hGH as that is a 191 amino acid peptide. AOD is only a 16 amino acid peptide.
Huge difference. That's not to say in high doses it may mimic it.

 

[jinny1]

It's not hGH as that is a 191 amino acid peptide. AOD is only a 16 amino acid peptide.
Huge difference. That's not to say in high doses it may mimic it.

Like I said, they just took the C-Terminus of HGH and then attacked an N-Terminal tyrosine through a presumably standard condensation reaction.

191 amino acid probably means the protein has 2 independent domains but obviously Dank Co. did not manufacture a whole domain/module of HGH otherwise he would probably be in jail right now LOL.

I exaggerated it being basically a HGH but as soon as you start taking sequences from HGH even though it is a small proportion, you are precariously close to going over the edge..

 

[jinny1]

On the other hand, i question exactly how AOD-9604 is "performance-enhancing". The only academic research i could find on it considered it to have "the potential to be developed into a therapeutic agent for the control of obesity". It only seems to have weight-loss benefits, it's not like AOD-9604 alters haemoglobin's affinity for oxygen or something...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11116208

 

[Gavstar]

See Calzada

http://calzada.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/132F042F2012103A223A05PM.pdf

Remember they are a listed company so jail time if they make things up.

 

[Yoda_]

See Calzada

http://calzada.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/132F042F2012103A223A05PM.pdf

Remember they are a listed company so jail time if they make things up.

FairFax are a company listed on the stock market too

Jail time aimed at them too?

After all, Essendon said things were "factually incorrect" aimed at Caro's constant innuendo