Mega Thread The Collingwood rollercoaster - all general angst and ranting directed here

[Mini_Skips87]

And have Pert, Buckley, Eade, Harvey, Hart and Lappin follow. This whole club is a basket case and any "supporter" who disagrees is just either blind or plain stupid. No wonder our supporters and club are the laughing stock of the league.

The fish rots at the head and the reality is collingwood were a powerhouse in 2011 and now we are shithouse.

 

[the mighty T]

Sigh

 

[Baird]

Facepalm

 

[danielnajdek]

*Shakes his head*

 

[Snell1234]

And have Pert, Buckley, Eade, Harvey, Hart and Lappin follow. This whole club is a basket case and any "supporter" who disagrees is just either blind or plain stupid. No wonder our supporters and club are the laughing stock of the league.

The fish rots at the head and the reality is collingwood were a powerhouse in 2011 and now we are shithouse.

Before everyone gets stuck into you as they usually do, I have this to say.

I have been a Collingwood supporter for 26 years and have watched the Shaw, Malthouse and now Buckley era.

Some supporters don't realise how good we had it under Malthouse and the complete and utter disrespect shown to Malthouse on here astounds me. He is our last premiership coach and he didn't want to leave - we kicked him out. Yes, he is bitter. But who wouldn't be? He wanted to be a Collingwood man for the rest of his life but it was taken away from him. The way we treated him humiliated him in his eyes and he now is bitter as a result. All of you should have some respect for what he achieved with us and stop bagging him out at every chance you get. If he left willingly at the end of a contract when we wanted to keep him, then fine - bag him all you like. But we sacked him after he had won a flag and then made a grand final.

Now to Buckley. I formed my judgement of Buckley after round 1 2012 against Hawthorn and nothing I have seen since has made me change it. He has no game plan, no structures, the players are lost and most importantly, the players do not play FOR him. They played for Malthouse. Not for Buckley. Last night was the most uncompetitive I have seen a Collingwood team since the Tony Shaw era. Yes, we had the odd bad loss under Malthouse. But they were rarities. People may point to 04-05, but mentally the club was shot after coming so close in two grand finals with a far inferior list to Brisbane's.

The point is, people on here will blindly defend Buckley. You do that because you love the club and will blindly back anyone in whilst they are in charge. But if you truly love the club, please look at it objectively. We are going no where with Buckley. We will only go forward when we get a new coach from an external system. No more club champions as coach any more. That rules out Burns.

You may all bag me and say this is the first time I've written anything. I have read this forum for years but I have never felt so strongly that I needed to say anything until now. Anyway, if all of you in your stubborn faith in Buckley want to accept the rubbish we served up last night, then fine. I, however, cannot.

Where does responsibility for this lie? Well it lies primarily with Buckley who needs to be sacked. But it also lies with Pert and McGuire who made these decisions. It was poor governance on their part and they need to be moved on too.

 

[orion21]

Before everyone gets stuck into you as they usually do, I have this to say.

I have been a Collingwood supporter for 26 years and have watched the Shaw, Malthouse and now Buckley era.

Some supporters don't realise how good we had it under Malthouse and the complete and utter disrespect shown to Malthouse on here astounds me. He is our last premiership coach and he didn't want to leave - we kicked him out. Yes, he is bitter. But who wouldn't be? He wanted to be a Collingwood man for the rest of his life but it was taken away from him. The way we treated him humiliated him in his eyes and he now is bitter as a result. All of you should have some respect for what he achieved with us and stop bagging him out at every chance you get. If he left willingly at the end of a contract when we wanted to keep him, then fine - bag him all you like. But we sacked him after he had won a flag and then made a grand final.

Now to Buckley. I formed my judgement of Buckley after round 1 2012 against Hawthorn and nothing I have seen since has made me change it. He has no game plan, no structures, the players are lost and most importantly, the players do not play FOR him. They played for Malthouse. Not for Buckley. Last night was the most uncompetitive I have seen a Collingwood team since the Tony Shaw era. Yes, we had the odd bad loss under Malthouse. But they were rarities. People may point to 04-05, but mentally the club was shot after coming so close in two grand finals with a far inferior list to Brisbane's.

The point is, people on here will blindly defend Buckley. You do that because you love the club and will blindly back anyone in whilst they are in charge. But if you truly love the club, please look at it objectively. We are going no where with Buckley. We will only go forward when we get a new coach from an external system. No more club champions as coach any more. That rules out Burns.

You may all bag me and say this is the first time I've written anything. I have read this forum for years but I have never felt so strongly that I needed to say anything until now. Anyway, if all of you in your stubborn faith in Buckley want to accept the rubbish we served up last night, then fine. I, however, cannot.

Where does responsibility for this lie? Well it lies primarily with Buckley who needs to be sacked. But it also lies with Pert and McGuire who made these decisions. It was poor governance on their part and they need to be moved on too.

He had a contract signed and he chose to walk away from it...........

 

[RuFiO]

 

[Matz]

Major face palm........I cant even be bothered getting into discussion about this. People just keep holding on to this dynasty crap. People tend to forget the Collingwood before they won the flag....its just impossible to explain to people we aren't the same team anymore. Its the changing of the guard, settle down people.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Snell1234]

He had a contract signed and he chose to walk away from it...........

We removed him from his head post. The role he was demoted to was an insignificant and demeaning role. Everyone knew he and Buckley would not work.

Major face palm........I cant even be bothered getting into discussion about this. People just keep holding on to this dynasty crap. People tend to forget the Collingwood before they won the flag....its just impossible to explain to people we aren't the same team anymore. Its the changing of the guard, settle down people.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Agree, we are not the same team. But it is not about that. It is about the culture and the way we are approaching our football. Everyone knows we are not going to win a flag every year. But you need to expect a minimum level of standard in terms of how the players approach their football and the structures and systems in place by the coaching staff that gives them every opportunity to win. At the moment, the players are not motivated to play for their coach and their coach is not giving them a chance to play well due to his lack of knowledge of systems and structures that are so important in today's football.

The Collingwood before we won the flag made two grand finals, two prelims and a semi final. We played a good brand of football and it was exciting to watch. We will not play finals again under Buckley.

 

[Snell1234]

Major face palm........I cant even be bothered getting into discussion about this. People just keep holding on to this dynasty crap. People tend to forget the Collingwood before they won the flag....its just impossible to explain to people we aren't the same team anymore. Its the changing of the guard, settle down people.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

And you can't be bothered getting into a discussion as you are blindly supporting the club instead of opening your eyes and using your brains (if you have any) to see the position we are in under this coach and management team.

 

[the mighty T]

]

Some supporters don't realise how good we had it under Malthouse and the complete and utter disrespect shown to Malthouse on here astounds me. He is our last premiership coach and he didn't want to leave - we kicked him out. Yes, he is bitter. But who wouldn't be? He wanted to be a Collingwood man for the rest of his life but it was taken away from him. The way we treated him humiliated him in his eyes and he now is bitter as a result. All of you should have some respect for what he achieved with us and stop bagging him out at every chance you get. If he left willingly at the end of a contract when we wanted to keep him, then fine - bag him all you like. But we sacked him after he had won a flag and then made a grand final.

Lets make a couple of things clear before we distort the facts to suit out needs.

• In 2009 Mick had been at the club for a decade without achieving the ultimate success. At that point in time, many were calling for his head as there was no positive movement being shown by the club. Despite this, the men that you call to be sacked in McGuire and Pert, Malthouse was allowed to coach for another two years before handing over the senior coaching position to Nathan Buckley. Now, I think its far to say that no other coach that has served 10 years without a premiership wouldve gotten an extension, especially considering the position of the club at the time.. however, the powers that be made a call to show faith in the incumbent coach and a year later it paid off.
• Mick entered into this agreement by his own volition and had no qualms about it at the time, because if he did, i dont imagine he wouldve signed on. This was an agreement between himself and the club, one which he broke.
• You talk about Mick being bitter? I say he's largely ungrateful to the club that backed him to the hilt.. to the man that continually championed his cause and to the players that he treated like his own family. Mick decided to break the contract that he agreed to.. and lets be honest, if the club hadnt given him that extra two years at the end of 09, MM wouldnt be regarded as one of the best coaches of all time and he sure as hell wouldnt have the retirement fund that he's getting now.

 

[Snell1234]

Lets make a couple of things clear before we distort the facts to suit out needs.

• In 2009 Mick had been at the club for a decade without achieving the ultimate success. At that point in time, many were calling for his head as there was no positive movement being shown by the club. Despite this, the men that you call to be sacked in McGuire and Pert, Malthouse was allowed to coach for another two years before handing over the senior coaching position to Nathan Buckley. Now, I think its far to say that no other coach that has served 10 years without a premiership wouldve gotten an extension, especially considering the position of the club at the time.. however, the powers that be made a call to show faith in the incumbent coach and a year later it paid off.
• Mick entered into this agreement by his own volition and had no qualms about it at the time, because if he did, i dont imagine he wouldve signed on. This was an agreement between himself and the club, one which he broke.
• You talk about Mick being bitter? I say he's largely ungrateful to the club that backed him to the hilt.. to the man that continually championed his cause and to the players that he treated like his own family. Mick decided to break the contract that he agreed to.. and lets be honest, if the club hadnt given him that extra two years at the end of 09, MM wouldnt be regarded as one of the best coaches of all time and he sure as hell wouldnt have the retirement fund that he's getting now.

Again, an over simplistic and naive way of looking at it. The no success in a decade comment astounds me too. He inherited a terrible list which he tweaked to get to two grand finals. With a bit of luck, we would have won 02. And your argument would be invalid. However, we just missed out. 04-05 we had to go back to the drawing board and bring players in through the draft which we did. From then onwards, we improved steadily every year (bar 08 where we went slightly backwards). Where exactly was the no positive movement? In fact, Mick took us over from last, got us to two grand finals where we just missed out in one, and then he rebuilt the team from scratch to set it up for a decade of sustained success. He improved the team each year and anyone with any football knowledge knew that we were going to be a great team capable of winning a flag when all the kids matured.

And to say he signed off on the deal - what was he meant to do? He had no choice. Should he have said no and walked away then? Everyone would have signed it just to get those extra two years, despite the fact they don't agree with what was going to happen next.

Again, someone with a very limited knowledge of how football works and a complete lack of respect for the achievements of a great coach.

 

[Snell1234]

Lets make a couple of things clear before we distort the facts to suit out needs.

• In 2009 Mick had been at the club for a decade without achieving the ultimate success. At that point in time, many were calling for his head as there was no positive movement being shown by the club. Despite this, the men that you call to be sacked in McGuire and Pert, Malthouse was allowed to coach for another two years before handing over the senior coaching position to Nathan Buckley. Now, I think its far to say that no other coach that has served 10 years without a premiership wouldve gotten an extension, especially considering the position of the club at the time.. however, the powers that be made a call to show faith in the incumbent coach and a year later it paid off.
• Mick entered into this agreement by his own volition and had no qualms about it at the time, because if he did, i dont imagine he wouldve signed on. This was an agreement between himself and the club, one which he broke.
• You talk about Mick being bitter? I say he's largely ungrateful to the club that backed him to the hilt.. to the man that continually championed his cause and to the players that he treated like his own family. Mick decided to break the contract that he agreed to.. and lets be honest, if the club hadnt given him that extra two years at the end of 09, MM wouldnt be regarded as one of the best coaches of all time and he sure as hell wouldnt have the retirement fund that he's getting now.

On this basis, Freo should sack Ross Lyon as he didn't win a flag at St Kilda nor has he at Freo which would mean there is no positive movement? Your logic is laughable.

 

[jasonwilde]

Lets make a couple of things clear before we distort the facts to suit out needs.

• In 2009 Mick had been at the club for a decade without achieving the ultimate success. At that point in time, many were calling for his head as there was no positive movement being shown by the club. Despite this, the men that you call to be sacked in McGuire and Pert, Malthouse was allowed to coach for another two years before handing over the senior coaching position to Nathan Buckley. Now, I think its far to say that no other coach that has served 10 years without a premiership wouldve gotten an extension, especially considering the position of the club at the time.. however, the powers that be made a call to show faith in the incumbent coach and a year later it paid off.
• Mick entered into this agreement by his own volition and had no qualms about it at the time, because if he did, i dont imagine he wouldve signed on. This was an agreement between himself and the club, one which he broke.
• You talk about Mick being bitter? I say he's largely ungrateful to the club that backed him to the hilt.. to the man that continually championed his cause and to the players that he treated like his own family. Mick decided to break the contract that he agreed to.. and lets be honest, if the club hadnt given him that extra two years at the end of 09, MM wouldnt be regarded as one of the best coaches of all time and he sure as hell wouldnt have the retirement fund that he's getting now.

How people ignore this stuff is beyond me.

 

[Snell1234]

How people ignore this stuff is beyond me.

Ignore it because you do not agree or because you think it is relevant?

 

[Quicky]

Before everyone gets stuck into you as they usually do, I have this to say.

I have been a Collingwood supporter for 26 years and have watched the Shaw, Malthouse and now Buckley era.

Some supporters don't realise how good we had it under Malthouse and the complete and utter disrespect shown to Malthouse on here astounds me. He is our last premiership coach and he didn't want to leave - we kicked him out. Yes, he is bitter. But who wouldn't be? He wanted to be a Collingwood man for the rest of his life but it was taken away from him. The way we treated him humiliated him in his eyes and he now is bitter as a result. All of you should have some respect for what he achieved with us and stop bagging him out at every chance you get. If he left willingly at the end of a contract when we wanted to keep him, then fine - bag him all you like. But we sacked him after he had won a flag and then made a grand final.

Now to Buckley. I formed my judgement of Buckley after round 1 2012 against Hawthorn and nothing I have seen since has made me change it. He has no game plan, no structures, the players are lost and most importantly, the players do not play FOR him. They played for Malthouse. Not for Buckley. Last night was the most uncompetitive I have seen a Collingwood team since the Tony Shaw era. Yes, we had the odd bad loss under Malthouse. But they were rarities. People may point to 04-05, but mentally the club was shot after coming so close in two grand finals with a far inferior list to Brisbane's.

The point is, people on here will blindly defend Buckley. You do that because you love the club and will blindly back anyone in whilst they are in charge. But if you truly love the club, please look at it objectively. We are going no where with Buckley. We will only go forward when we get a new coach from an external system. No more club champions as coach any more. That rules out Burns.

You may all bag me and say this is the first time I've written anything. I have read this forum for years but I have never felt so strongly that I needed to say anything until now. Anyway, if all of you in your stubborn faith in Buckley want to accept the rubbish we served up last night, then fine. I, however, cannot.

Where does responsibility for this lie? Well it lies primarily with Buckley who needs to be sacked. But it also lies with Pert and McGuire who made these decisions. It was poor governance on their part and they need to be moved on too.

Hey Snell1234 welcome to BigFooty! Not sure I agree with the thrust of your argument here but I appreciate you've gone about explaining your point in a constructive way. For me, my biggest disappointment is that we had so many unfit players for the first game of the season. I am ropeable at the fitness staff for that. You gear up to be ready for the season, the fitness staff aim to have players ready for this and having so many out with soft tissue injuries has to be seen as a failure. I don't even think we can begin to judge Buckley until we see something approaching the best 22 out on the field.

And you can't be bothered getting into a discussion as you are blindly supporting the club instead of opening your eyes and using your brains (if you have any) to see the position we are in under this coach and management team.

I hate these retorts. It's lazy arguing. Just like you have your opinion others are entitled to theirs and probably have as good a reasons to support them. Let's try not to turn this into a boring "you're a sheep take off the rose coloured glasses" vs "you're not a real supporter" pissing contest. They get pretty tiresome.

 

[PieNSauce]

And you can't be bothered getting into a discussion as you are blindly supporting the club instead of opening your eyes and using your brains (if you have any) to see the position we are in under this coach and management team.

Reality says you are blindly talking shyte about Mick who had consistently failed to deliver over 10 years when he was given a lifeline rather than being summarily sacked. The fact that he then got off his fat arse with the assistance of some great work by the club to recruit 2 proven game changers says more about his poor record than anything and if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the facts then go ahead but the fact is that most on this board at least have both eyes open unlike you.

 

[Snell1234]

Reality says you are blindly talking shyte about Mick who had consistently failed to deliver over 10 years when he was given a lifeline rather than being summarily sacked. The fact that he then got off his fat arse with the assistance of some great work by the club to recruit 2 proven game changers says more about his poor record than anything and if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the facts then go ahead but the fact is that most on this board at least have both eyes open unlike you.

Care to explain how he failed to deliver? Care to show me what facts I have ignored?

The fact that he took over the 16th team to get them into two grand finals 3 years later?

Or the fact that he completely rebuilt a list to play in 6 consecutive finals series whilst he was there. To rebuild a list capable of winning a flag doesn't take overnight. He could have gutted the list when he first got here and maybe we would have won a flag a bit earlier. But he decided to give the current players a chance to win a flag in 02 and 03 and we just missed out.

Mick did not fail to deliver. A coach who failed to deliver is a Tony Shaw. Not a Mick Malthouse. And I am sure in 2010 you would have been one of the supporters singing his praises. You are a fickle and disrespectful supporter. You are one of the bad supporters that turns on people when they leave the club, forgetting all they did for the club prior. That's why I will never hate Dale Thomas like the rest of you as I will remember him as a Collingwood premiership player who did his all for this club while he was here.

 

[the mighty T]

On this basis, Freo should sack Ross Lyon as he didn't win a flag at St Kilda nor has he at Freo which would mean there is no positive movement? Your logic is laughable.

I have no issue contending that Ross Lyon is a great coach based on his accomplishments, nor have I ever suggested that Mick isn't in the same category. Mick is in fact one of the best coaches the competition has ever seen and you'll find that i respect him a great deal more than some. However, my opinions of MM as an individual and his attitude towards leaving the club are my own. There can be no argument that he decided to leave the club after agreeing to a contract, one that was extremely generous at that point in time.. an in essence 5 year deal that wouldve seen him stay at the club for the rest of his career.

P.S regarding Ross Lyon, He is a magnificent coach who has been quite fortunate to inherit two talented lists. I wouldve loved to see him stay at St Kilda and see if his developmental side is as good as his tactical nous.. a discussion for another time.

Again, an over simplistic and naive way of looking at it. The no success in a decade comment astounds me too. He inherited a terrible list which he tweaked to get to two grand finals. With a bit of luck, we would have won 02. And your argument would be invalid. However, we just missed out. 04-05 we had to go back to the drawing board and bring players in through the draft which we did. From then onwards, we improved steadily every year (bar 08 where we went slightly backwards). Where exactly was the no positive movement? In fact, Mick took us over from last, got us to two grand finals where we just missed out in one, and then he rebuilt the team from scratch to set it up for a decade of sustained success. He improved the team each year and anyone with any football knowledge knew that we were going to be a great team capable of winning a flag when all the kids matured.

And to say he signed off on the deal - what was he meant to do? He had no choice. Should he have said no and walked away then? Everyone would have signed it just to get those extra two years, despite the fact they don't agree with what was going to happen next.

Again, someone with a very limited knowledge of how football works and a complete lack of respect for the achievements of a great coach.

My point, if you chose to read my previous post accurately, was to illustrate that things weren't always rosey with MM at the helm. More to the point, I was disagreeing with your guillotine approach to the people who run our club, when it was those people who showed faith in Mick to get us there in the first place.

In regards to the bolded, if he had no interest in being part of the succession planning or the development of the club and coaches for the future, then yes he should have walked away. Do i think the club should have been more flexible at the end of 2011 regarding Micks position at the club? Certainly. However, the fact that he himself showed an unwillingness to be flexible tells me a lot about the individual and his priorities.

 

[lozza63]

I feel that Mick turned us from a basket case we had become since the mid '90s to being a competitive outfit - in no way did i feel Mick was a failure in his tenure at the club. perhaps in '08 and '09 i felt he had come to the end of his tether but really his results considering some of our raw talent was always a source of pride for me.

It hurts that some of us considered he had failed for the decade leading to the ultimate success - gee some people are hard to please that's for sure.

I wish to high light' 02 and '07 as years where we just outstripped my expectations by miles - that's not to mention 2010 where the club amazed me again.

For me Bucks needs the time to find our best mix as Q said very eloquently above.

 

[Markfs]

And have Pert, Buckley, Eade, Harvey, Hart and Lappin follow. This whole club is a basket case and any "supporter" who disagrees is just either blind or plain stupid. No wonder our supporters and club are the laughing stock of the league.

The fish rots at the head and the reality is collingwood were a powerhouse in 2011 and now we are shithouse.

Is there forensic proof of this? I had no idea that fish rot at the head. I googled this concept and received the following:

"Of course, the proverb isn't a lesson in piscine biology. The phrase appears to have been used in Turkey in a metaphorical rather than literal sense from the outset. That's just as well as, in reality, it is the guts of fish that rot and stink before the head."

To say that I'm gutted at finding this out, would be an understatement. I thought for a minute that I had learnt something interesting from your post and that's obviously not the case. I would suggest that you check your facts next time before you make assertions like this one. Thank you

 

[Fred Ziffel]

He had a contract signed and he chose to walk away from it...........

The contract may as well have been as a groundsman.
It was not as senior coach.

 

[Manic Magpie]

He had a contract signed and he chose to walk away from it...........

I am sick of hearing this lame line about MM walking out on a contract. He never wanted to be anything other than coach and to expect otherwise is doing him an injustice.

 

[tommyv49]

I was disgusted with Buckley's apparent lack of game plan last night, but i'll wait to mid season to give the guys a go, before i give them a massive spray. More importantly we had 3 extra weeks of conditioning than freo but they made us look slow and unfit last night.

 

[the mighty T]

I am sick of hearing this lame line about MM walking out on a contract. He never wanted to be anything other than coach and to expect otherwise is doing him an injustice.

If we are to take that point of view, is it also fair to say that Mick was only concerned about what was best for himself? I mean, if he was interested in the improving the club as a whole, he wouldve stayed and completed the role that he agreed to, wouldn't he?

Assuming of course that he was capable of providing such a mentoring role and was willing to