The 2nd level at Etihad - a blight on the game

[master bate]

Basically the OP wants a quantity over quality model without any consideration over whether the quantity devalues the quality and whether there is enough quantity to make up the shortfall. Others who have done the sums have shown there isn't. Why do you neglect to address these posts master bate? You incapable of debating logic?

Because no one really has done the sums with accurate predictions have they? I've done the sums saying 6 tickets at 33 = 4 tickets at 25 and 2 tickets at 50 which is my way of saying selling more tickets on the second level doesn't have to cost money.

Everyone seems capable affixing a greater price to the second level like it's some VIP special section. All I'm saying is take down the price of it to get people in when it's empty. I don't see how that can lose money except devaluing the seats for the people who were already there. The people who are already there are medallion club, axcess one and club members. Those first two groups are paying for the big games not the little games and the last group is getting ripped off only if his team doesn't draw crowds that actually make people turn up. If the dogs average crowd has no one on the second level then what gives them the right to charge so much for members to get reserved seats on that level? Instead those seats should be available at some premium compared to the third level but still at a rate that allows them to occupied.

 

[Kwality]

Good on you hero. It's funny seeing all the angry WA people in this thread just because there government can't manage to build a stadium even half as troubled as Etihad.

Poor attempt to deflect. Play more games in WA will increase total attendances rather than pander to fans who chose not to go to the game.

Its not as if the empty look is not a problem with sold out games at Subi - the difference is the financial result, the difference between the WAFC (WA Government) & the Melbourne stadium arrangements (not Vic, Cooky at Geelong brought the WA template & made it work).

 

[master bate]

You don't want what is best for your footy club though, because you want to deprive them of revenue. You want what is best for you.

I'm talking crowds less than 30,000 at Etihad. The revenue is already deprived.

I contributed $25 for my third level seat yesterday. I would've have paid $35 for a second level one. I wasn't going to pay the $43 I have access to due to being an MCC member or the 50 or 60 a standard person would pay for a second level one.

It's not at all what is best for me. It's how to get most crowd engagement at an unfilled stadium and I think it can be done without changing the bottom line for the club. How is everyone buying the cheap seats better for a club because that's what happens now

 

[Demonic Ascent]

So is having a job a bad thing?

What are you talking about you fool?

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Surprised Demons supporter master bate isn't well used to mountains of empty seats

I upgraded my Essendon home reserved seat to level 2 this year. Got tired of level 3 and bit the bullet. Intending to still get cheap seats for the away games (as I did on Friday) because I'm not on big city lawyer money.

You could have bought Medallion Club tickets, including a car park, for about 30 bucks each for last nights game on eBay.

Same with most other "low drawing" games.

Hmmm, I'll have to keep this in mind for our away games against the Bulldogs and Geelong.

 

[master bate]

Poor attempt to deflect. Play more games in WA will increase total attendances rather than pander to fans who chose not to go to the game.

Its not as if the empty look is not a problem with sold out games at Subi - the difference is the financial result, the difference between the WAFC (WA Government) & the Melbourne stadium arrangements (not Vic, Cooky at Geelong brought the WA template & made it work).

You bringing up WA is deflecting the whole topic. If you want a third team, go ahead create one and get it in the competition. A bigger stadium will probably help, there's a tip. This topic is about how to improve smaller games at Etihad, I understand the link, but we don't need to go down the fold a Melbourne club and a start a third Perth team topic.

 

[Rob]

I'm talking crowds less than 30,000 at Etihad. The revenue is already deprived.

I contributed $25 for my third level seat yesterday. I would've have paid $35 for a second level one. I wasn't going to pay the $43 I have access to due to being an MCC member or the 50 or 60 a standard person would pay for a second level one.

It's not at all what is best for me. It's how to get most crowd engagement at an unfilled stadium and I think it can be done without changing the bottom line for the club. How is everyone buying the cheap seats better for a club because that's what happens now

Because you'd also have to charge the people already there the cheaper prices as well, so you lose money from them. And would you pick up that shortfall from extras wanting to pay? It's questionable. Maybe, but probably not, that's why those people that are sitting in GA in the first place - because they only want to pay $25. If anything it means the GA prices are way too low, they really should be $35+ for an adult. Perhaps then some clubs might actually make money on match day and stop whining about their stadium deals.

Bear in mind the reserved seat premium is basically all profit. It's extra revenue with no real increase in cost (perhaps a few more ushers are needed).

 

[master bate]

Surprised Demons supporter master bate isn't well used to mountains of empty seats

I upgraded my Essendon home reserved seat to level 2 this year. Got tired of level 3 and bit the bullet. Intending to still get cheap seats for the away games (as I did on Friday) because I'm not on big city lawyer money.

Hmmm, I'll have to keep this in mind for our away games against the Bulldogs and Geelong.

I'm very well acquainted with empty seats. That's why I don't understand why they best seats in the house at Etihad are left empty. At least at Melbourne games where there's plenty of empty seats there's a logical price structure and people often sit in most of the best seats the G and leave the upper bleachers empty.

 

[master bate]

Because you'd also have to charge the people already there the cheaper prices as well, so you lose money from them. And would you pick up that shortfall from extras wanting to pay? It's questionable. Maybe, but probably not, that's why those people that are sitting in GA in the first place - because they only want to pay $25. If anything it means the GA prices are way too low, they really should be $35+ for an adult. Perhaps then some clubs might actually make money on match day and stop whining about their stadium deals.

Bear in mind the reserved seat premium is basically all profit. It's extra revenue with no real increase in cost (perhaps a few more ushers are needed).

There in lies the problem. At last nights game there were nothing more than about 1000 people on the second level. Sure you charge them all 20 dollars less but if you charge 2000 people $10 more to go down a level you come out even financially and ahead in crowd enjoyment.

When stadiums remain a half or quarter full you can't argue that tickets are too cheap for the worst seats. Especially when stadiums make gauranteed money from clubs but not the other way around.

 

[Underdog]

There in lies the problem. At last nights game there were nothing more than about 1000 people on the second level. Sure you charge them all 20 dollars less but if you charge 2000 people $10 more to go down a level you come out even financially and ahead in crowd enjoyment.

That's without considering that you devalue the premium memberships substantially.

Don't give me this garbage about them only being used for blockbusters. Companies pay for those memberships for access to all games/events because you can't guarantee that the client will only be a fan of blockbuster sides.

Additionally, the premium memberships are guaranteed income for the stadium, upgrades are not.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

At least at Melbourne games where there's plenty of empty seats there's a logical price structure and people often sit in most of the best seats the G and leave the upper bleachers empty.

The MCG operators don't do that because they're nice people or for television aesthetics. They do it because when there's less than 14,000 people in a 100,000 stadium not opening the top level is a great way to save money.

Last night's game had 31,607 in a 56,000 stadium.

 

[master bate]

That's without considering that you devalue the premium memberships substantially.

Don't give me this garbage about them only being used for blockbusters. Companies pay for those memberships for access to all games/events because you can't guarantee that the client will only be a fan of blockbuster sides.

Additionally, the premium memberships are guaranteed income for the stadium, upgrades are not.

So a system that allows a small bunch of level 2 seats to be set aside for people who actually turn up allowing a ticket exchange where owners of premium seats make $5 by vacating their seat that can be sold for $35 or other measures along those lines that help get empty premium seats turned it bumbs on seats isn't in the interest for everyone?

Just because companies pay for all games doesn't mean their isn't a smarter way. Have you ever been to Etihad. Do you understand the basic logic of a whole bunch of people sitting a level above a whole bunch of empty seats?

 

[Underdog]

So a system that allows a small bunch of level 2 seats to be set aside for people who actually turn up allowing a ticket exchange where owners of premium seats make $5 by vacating their seat that can be sold for $35 or other measures along those lines that help get empty premium seats turned it bumbs on seats isn't in the interest for everyone?

Just because companies pay for all games doesn't mean their isn't a smarter way. Have you ever been to Etihad. Do you understand the basic logic of a whole bunch of people sitting a level above a whole bunch of empty seats?

Yep, I've been to Etihad and happily payed a premium for excellent seats at a brilliant venue. I had more bang for my buck then I've ever had at Subiaco.

 

[master bate]

The MCG operators don't do that because they're nice people or for television aesthetics. They do it because when there's less than 14,000 people in a 100,000 stadium not opening the top level is a great way to save money.

Last night's game had 31,607 in a 56,000 stadium.

The top level is rarely closed at the G even with less than 20,000. Because it's a bigger stadium there is more room for people to take up close to premium seats which are worth the value. At Etihad for smaller games they aren't worth the value and hence the problem is no one (the original premium seat holder or people able to buy them) sits in them.

 

[Rob]

There in lies the problem. At last nights game there were nothing more than about 1000 people on the second level. Sure you charge them all 20 dollars less but if you charge 2000 people $10 more to go down a level you come out even financially and ahead in crowd enjoyment.

The question is how many of those seats were paid for, not how many were filled.

When stadiums remain a half or quarter full you can't argue that tickets are too cheap for the worst seats. Especially when stadiums make gauranteed money from clubs but not the other way around.

Yeah, nah. That's not how it works. The question is how to maximise revenue from any given game - and even if you charged $10 for every seat you might have got an extra 5,000 through the gates last night you would have lost overall revenue. This is the reality of participating in a professional sporting league. Players cost money, coaches cost money, and clubs are constantly bitching about other clubs spending too much. The solution is raise more revenue yourselves, and charging the cheapest prices in Australia (as the Victorian clubs choose to do) will not result in the smaller clubs raising that money needed when crowd numbers are generally poor.

You may complain about the economics of all of that - but that's what's necessary to survive in professional sport. If that's too objectionable, go and watch amateur sport where clubs are run on a shoestring and you can pay nothing and sit where you like.

 

[joop]

Best thread ever. Master bate killing it

 

[master bate]

The question is how many of those seats were paid for, not how many were filled.

Yeah, nah. That's not how it works. The question is how to maximise revenue from any given game - and even if you charged $10 for every seat you might have got an extra 5,000 through the gates last night you would have lost overall revenue. This is the reality of participating in a professional sporting league. Players cost money, coaches cost money, and clubs are constantly bitching about other clubs spending too much. The solution is raise more revenue yourselves, and charging the cheapest prices in Australia (as the Victorian clubs choose to do) will not result in the smaller clubs raising that money needed when crowd numbers are generally poor.

You may complain about the economics of all of that - but that's what's necessary to survive in professional sport. If that's too objectionable, go and watch amateur sport where clubs are run on a shoestring and you can pay nothing and sit where you like.

Maybe at Subi but in Melbourne it's all about who turns up compared to what seats are sold off to the medallion club and MCC etc.

Club reserved ticket holder seats are fine. Once that seat is sold the money is in for both the stadium and club and everyone is happy.

My understanding with places like the medallion club was that the clubs only make money if those people attend for their match day and the stadium makes money regardless. If so if there are large blocks that dont attend, work out some way of selling those tickets for people like me who would've paid a bit more to sit a level lower. The ticket exchange is a way for the stadium to keep their existing medallion club money and for the clubs to make money by people turning up and using the best seats.

Anyone please correct me if that logic is wrong. I know for the MCC that they pay the home club for every MCC member who turns up. I presume Medallion club and axcess one would be the same.

When the SCG, Metricon, Gabba or AAMI stadium are half full is it that all the premium seats are vacant whilst people sit above or below them? Or is it the worse seats that are mainly empty. I understand some of the expensive seats being missing in line with the general emptiness but Etihad is just incredibly strange seeing so many good seats go to waste whilst people sit in bad ones. It tells me something is broken.

 

[Andrew Mc]

What the OP fails to know is that Level 1 reserved seating at Ethiad sells for $52 a pop (compared to the $62) for Level 2. Only $10 difference.

 

[Richo83]

I'm conditioned not to expect something for nothing.

Do you also expect an airline to let Economy passengers sit in Business Class for a nominal fee, just because the seats aren't filled up?

I do know airlines cut the costs of airline tickets when they struggle to fill seats, which is somewhat similar to what the op is suggesting. I regularly buy cheap tickets because I wait for the airlines to cut their prices to fill seats.

 

[Richo83]

I'm not sure I agree full with what the op is saying but the AFL does need to do something about organising both Etihad and the MCG so that premium seats aren't cut off to prospective buyers. If they haven't come by a certain time, if the AFL could figure out a way to open them up to the market that'd be great. That way the AFL earns more money and the fans get to sit in good seats.

 

[raymond35]

Yep, I've been to Etihad and happily payed a premium for excellent seats at a brilliant venue. I had more bang for my buck then I've ever had at Subiaco.

now theres some comedy. nobody who has been to the concrete bowl with no atmosphere has ever called it a brilliant venue.

 

[Bombermania]

What are you talking about you fool?

Earlier you commented that it is terrible that corporates took seats overlooking that the corporate types just happen to be people who are employed.

 

[Rob]

Maybe at Subi but in Melbourne it's all about who turns up compared to what seats are sold off to the medallion club and MCC etc.

Club reserved ticket holder seats are fine. Once that seat is sold the money is in for both the stadium and club and everyone is happy.

Well sure, until the guy that paid $50 a game for his face value $65 reserved seat finds out that the club is now flogging the seats around him off for $30. Then he's going to be pissed off that he's being screwed, and he probably won't get that reserved seat next season.

It's generally considered good business practice not to piss off your regular customers.

My understanding with places like the medallion club was that the clubs only make money if those people attend for their match day and the stadium makes money regardless. If so if there are large blocks that dont attend, work out some way of selling those tickets for people like me who would've paid a bit more to sit a level lower. The ticket exchange is a way for the stadium to keep their existing medallion club money and for the clubs to make money by people turning up and using the best seats.

First i've heard of that. Not sure how often you visit the Footy Industry board, but there's plenty of speculation there as to what the deal actually is. Reality is that no-one around here knows about it, although from piecing together little bits of information that come through the media now and again, it appears to be a revenue sharing type arrangement as opposed to pure numbers through the gates. The more you charge, the more profit the club makes. I doubt the stadium would really sign an arrangement where it gives an incentive for the home club to sell tickets as cheaply as possible. Essendon make lots of money because they have the whole ground as reserved seats. No bargain basement tickets there.

But as has been suggested before, there is a ticket exchange for Medallion Club - ebay (or probably a few other sites like Gumtree) . The person that pays thousands for the ticket can sell off any individual game. There might be an argument to allow a more official way to do it, but at least it's something.

Anyone please correct me if that logic is wrong. I know for the MCC that they pay the home club for every MCC member who turns up. I presume Medallion club and axcess one would be the same.

When the SCG, Metricon, Gabba or AAMI stadium are half full is it that all the premium seats are vacant whilst people sit above or below them? Or is it the worse seats that are mainly empty. I understand some of the expensive seats being missing in line with the general emptiness but Etihad is just incredibly strange seeing so many good seats go to waste whilst people sit in bad ones. It tells me something is broken.

I've noticed at Metricon that tends to be the case. But GA there are the shitty seats on the bottom level behind the goals. All the other venues you mention either have no GA or GA is a very limited section of the ground. You certainly can't park yourself on the wing like you can at Etihad.

 

[Andrew Mc]

I'm not sure I agree full with what the op is saying but the AFL does need to do something about organising both Etihad and the MCG so that premium seats aren't cut off to prospective buyers. If they haven't come by a certain time, if the AFL could figure out a way to open them up to the market that'd be great. That way the AFL earns more money and the fans get to sit in good seats.

So what do you define as "a certain time". If I'm paying $7k a year, I'm pretty sure I could rock up with 5 minutes to go and still be quite justified with the timing of my arrival.

 

[Starburns_]

Talk about banging your head against a brick wall...

It's ridiculous, and yet, you can't help but respond.

I'm very well acquainted with empty seats. That's why I don't understand why they best seats in the house at Etihad are left empty. At least at Melbourne games where there's plenty of empty seats there's a logical price structure and people often sit in most of the best seats the G and leave the upper bleachers empty.

You say this because you go for Melbourne, a large percentage of your fans are MCC and sit in the reserve, leaving not many fans sitting in the outer, and even less buying reserved seats, meaning more GA for your games.

Go watch Collingwood, Richmond, or Hawthorn play a small side at the MCG and the spread of fans is much the same as the Etihad example you used.

I contributed $25 for my third level seat yesterday. I would've have paid $35 for a second level one. I wasn't going to pay the $43 I have access to due to being an MCC member or the 50 or 60 a standard person would pay for a second level one.

Well that was your choice then.

/thread