Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[naydo1]

Not for inside midfielders or General Forwards, like I said
Pretty well covered in those areas and some other midfielders have been playing up forward to

Need about 2-3 KPFs and 2-3 more KPDs over the next couple of years, helps if one of the KPDs can also go up forward
that way we have lots of competition for KPP spots, some of these would be rookie spots though as well

Keep cycling the talent through until we find something that works

Thats true mate something has to work eventually!

 

[LukasTheGreat]

Guys on 360 (Well, Maclure alone) suggesting we should trade Griffen for Cameron, the rest of the guys laughed. I'd prefer to give a bit less for Patton, but I wouldn't give up Griffen for anyone.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

As fronk has said, nobody is untouchable, but we'd be mental to trade Griffen.
Close to 200 games of service, our captain, has expressed how much he loves the club for sticking by him and supporting him through the tough times, and is in the prime of his career with the exception of the current back complaint.

 

[Mutt]

No matter what we or anyone in the media thinks, we will not put Griffen up for trade, so there is no point talking about it. No club will trade their best player and newly appointed Captain unless he wants to go (eg. Chris Judd wanting out of Perf.)

I'll be interested to see what Kingy comes up with next week as a hypothetical trade to get Cameron to the Dogs. I've been asking on here whether we should throw the grandstand and a boatload of cash Cameron and GWS's way - I want to know what the grandstand looks like. Is it our first and second round picks and a player (and if so, who?)

 

[Sharkey66]

Hasn't Cameron already poured cold water on the notion that he wants to leave?

 

[fronkalicious]

No matter what we or anyone in the media thinks, we will not put Griffen up for trade, so there is no point talking about it. No club will trade their best player and newly appointed Captain unless he wants to go (eg. Chris Judd wanting out of Perf.)

I'll be interested to see what Kingy comes up with next week as a hypothetical trade to get Cameron to the Dogs. I've been asking on here whether we should throw the grandstand and a boatload of cash Cameron and GWS's way - I want to know what the grandstand looks like. Is it our first and second round picks and a player (and if so, who?)

What did you make of Kings thoughts on us mutt? That we're hard to watch and just don't have any weapons.

Was interested in maclures comments as well. Said McCartney is good at talking which is buying him more time. He also canned the notion that we're just bad in patches. Said all clubs are bad in patches in every game and it's just an excuse. I agree with this bit wholeheartedly.

 

[DogDays]

What did you make of Kings thoughts on us mutt? That we're hard to watch and just don't have any weapons.

Was interested in maclures comments as well. Said McCartney is good at talking which is buying him more time. He also canned the notion that we're just bad in patches. Said all clubs are bad in patches in every game and it's just an excuse. I agree with this bit wholeheartedly.

Fronk no offense but if you are agreeing with Maclure then it's a worry - that's like agreeing with Brian Taylor.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Maclure's a dickhead, and whether or not you agree with his comments, he's only making them out of spite. Criticises us at all times, even when the others on the panel are presenting evidence contradicting his claims.

 

[fronkalicious]

I can see what are you saying, but we would still need to compete against 16 other clubs thinking exactly the same thing which makes it tough.

Could be better to get in this year and yes pay a bit for a KP because I'm thinking GWS know what's going to happen with no success next year and are going to be desperate for seasoned quality players to help them next year (and helping them get success will help them retain players and get the AFL and the media off their backs, and get crowds in). Its just a matter of who we trade.

I still think Morris should be looked at (and yeah if we and GWS wanted to do it, then Morris would need convincing but cash and maybe coaching path could do that).

Morris (stems the bleeding in the back) and Smith (addresses sm fwd probs) plus our first rounder could get us Patton plus something...probably something decent too..

I just think if we wait till next year, we are probably screwed (either GWS get better and retains players, or other clubs are more attractive - see Docherty last year with Carlton). Unless of course a Crameri type deal is done and we have no way of knowing this...

Nice post with good thought gone into it BRWB. Maybe gws do get on the front foot and move one of Patton/cameron/Boyd before they come off-contract in 12 months time and lose some leverage.

I don't think gws would give up a heap for Morris (nor that we'd give him up) and I don't think clay smith adds a lot that they don't have either.

They need a blue chip key defender to grow with the rest of their team, some more class through the middle and a dynamo small forward. Just so happens with have 2 of the 3.

Roughie is a gem. But I would be willing to move him to get either Boyd or cameron. Talia is having some second year blues (appreciate it's not his second year on the list, but it's he's struggling to follow up his breakout 2013) but I rate him very very highly. I'm confident he can be our number 1 key defender in time (as his brother is in Adelaide).

Dal is the other one. Probably our most exciting player, but again, one that we can cover to some degree and yes, I'd make him available as well to get Boyd or cameron. Honeychurch, hrovat and hunter aren't at his level, but they're all quality young talents that will play the small forward/midfield role in time.

 

[fronkalicious]

Hear what you're saying re Maclure lads, but do you disagree with his comments re bad patches in games? I don't.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Hear what you're saying re Maclure lads, but do you disagree with his comments re bad patches in games? I don't.

I do to a degree.
All clubs might have them, but are able to cover them. We have lapses and we're not so great at stemming the flow. It's not an excuse at this point in time. I might be discounting what Maclure's got to say moreso because he seems determined to perpetuate the Brendan McCartney witch hunt, but objectively I think it's a generalization to compare our lapses to that of Hawthorn or Sydney, for example.

 

[LukasTheGreat]

What did you make of Kings thoughts on us mutt? That we're hard to watch and just don't have any weapons.

Was interested in maclures comments as well. Said McCartney is good at talking which is buying him more time. He also canned the notion that we're just bad in patches. Said all clubs are bad in patches in every game and it's just an excuse. I agree with this bit wholeheartedly.

It's just that our bad is usually horrendous, and our good isn't explosive either. Look at Fremantle on the weekend, they were off in the first 10 minutes and we didn't even score.

 

[Igloo]

Hear what you're saying re Maclure lads, but do you disagree with his comments re bad patches in games? I don't.

I do. All clubs do go through bad patches, yes. But teams are all on a different level to start with. Our high isn't as high as Hawthorn's, and our bad patches are way worse. There's no comparison. Even a middle of the ladder team like North Melbourne can reach much higher highs than us, but can go through similar bad patches.
It's a bit of a blanket statement.

 

[fronkalicious]

It's like telling us the score basically. Having bad patches is the result of bad play. But why are we playing badly? What do we need to do to play better? Cutting down the bad patches in games is like telling a struggling business man they need to make more money. Sweet. But how?

It's a soft way out in my opinion and avoids the issue entirely. Mccartney is taking the pizzle when he keeps regurgitating that one. I don't blame him for it. We keep swallowing it, so why not.

 

[fronkalicious]

How do you think we should attack the off-season igloo?

 

[Igloo]

How do you think we should attack the off-season igloo?

Although i'm not a fan of it generally, trade. Definitely. And hope we can get Cordy with a 3rd round pick or later. I'd attempt to downgrade our first pick for a couple of late first rounders or a mid first rounder and 2nd rounder, then go from there. Either use them in the draft or shop them around a bit.

 

[womble54]

Pretty impressed with the idea of trading 5 or 6 plus a player for Pick 2. You guarantee McCartin or Wright depending on Brissies move and GWS probably on trade it for another established player anyway so they would probably be up for the right deal. Would they entertain JJ for the upgrade and (getting greedy) maybe a second round upgrade as well? Would we (if reversed)? Our pick 26 ish for pick 20? Would love to lockdown McCartin/Watchman or Keitel/Cordy..

 

[Mutt]

What did you make of Kings thoughts on us mutt? That we're hard to watch and just don't have any weapons.

Was interested in maclures comments as well. Said McCartney is good at talking which is buying him more time. He also canned the notion that we're just bad in patches. Said all clubs are bad in patches in every game and it's just an excuse. I agree with this bit wholeheartedly.

Maclure talks off the cuff like Robbo does - I'd be more interested in what Whateley and King have to say as they are more thoughtful and less interested in getting a reaction for it's own sake.

I agree with King's comments that we are hard to watch (except for those few patches in games when it all clicks for us) and that we don't have any weapons (I'd say we don't have many - don't agree with not having any.) But what do you expect when you are in the early to middle part of a rebuild FFS?

It's hardly genius to recognize that our list is relatively poor because we've lost so many gun players from the Eade heyday and our newer recruits are too young to be weapons just yet. Wait until our kids get 50 to 100 games under their belts and then see if we have any weapons. Pity our rebuild came at a time when the AFL gave all of the best kids to GC and GWS - that's made it harder for us.

 

[charcoalchicken]

I would give up Cooney & Higgins, I'd even chuck in a Wallis or Smith to get a Cameron/Patton to our club it is something we desperately need and pretty much the sole reason why we couldn't win a flag in our 08,09,10 years we got Barry Hall in a season or two too late imo. Had we had the big power forward in his prime during those years I am almost certain we would have won the flag at least once in those 3 seasons.

 

[TBOW]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-04/save-now-spend-later


Expect us to chase hard for free agents in 2015.

Why do I get the feeling that Collingwood are paying under the cap and will get Cameron....

 

[Super Hans]

I'd happily give up pick 5 (or so), Cooney and JJ for Patton/pick two. Dunno if GWS would take it, but it's not a bad offer. Pick two is much more likely.

Don't want to trade Higgins, he has been very good this year. Only bloke with skills close to Murph's.

 

[Dav1d]

Why do I get the feeling that Collingwood are paying under the cap and will get Cameron....

LOL or Sydney... hm, wonder how close to the cap we currently are though...

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Turning attention to 'List Management' instead of 'Trades' I thought I'd share some thoughts.

My opinion at Selection this year is that we are really using the year to get a deep assessment of our list (not an excuse for losses). There have been some odd things happening (like Hunter, Bonts ... being IN and OUT, yet not playing 2's). Also what appears like an obvious selection (like Talia, JJ, Grant ... this week?) fails to materialise. I think the coaching panel have 2 clear messages.
1. Team first ... if not then back to Footscray to sort this out.
2. Injury and load management. Long term view means not rushing players back (like Grant and handling of Stringer last year). Younger players are still regularly rested.

Taking the above into consideration this is my view on the bunch of players able to contribute now at senior level when fit by age (though many with work to do).
Veterans 27+
Boyd, Murphy, Gia, Minson, Morris, Griff, Coons, Williams, Picken

Mid range 23-26
Wood, Higgins (been great), Roughead, Jones, Dickson, Grant, Crameri

22 and under
Libba, Wallis, McCrae, Dahlhaus, Stringer, Smith, JJ, Stevens, Hunter, Hrovat, Campbell

Players who I have ?? about, but am still hopeful
Jong (20), Roberts (20), Talia (21), Young (22), Tutt (23), Howard (23), Redpath (23)

Too early to tell
Bonts (but I'm excited), Fuller, Darley, Honeychurch, Prudden (needs to get on the track)

Delist/retire candidates
Goodes, Cordy, Pearce, Gia
Austin, Greenwood

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Turning attention to 'List Management' instead of 'Trades' I thought I'd share some thoughts.

My opinion at Selection this year is that we are really using the year to get a deep assessment of our list (not an excuse for losses). There have been some odd things happening (like Hunter, Bonts ... being IN and OUT, yet not playing 2's). Also what appears like an obvious selection (like Talia, JJ, Grant ... this week?) fails to materialise. I think the coaching panel have 2 clear messages.
1. Team first ... if not then back to Footscray to sort this out.
2. Injury and load management. Long term view means not rushing players back (like Grant and handling of Stringer last year). Younger players are still regularly rested.

Taking the above into consideration this is my view on the bunch of players able to contribute now at senior level when fit by age (though many with work to do).
Veterans 27+
Boyd, Murphy, Gia, Minson, Morris, Griff, Coons, Williams, Picken

Mid range 23-26
Wood, Higgins (been great), Roughead, Jones, Dickson, Grant, Crameri

22 and under
Libba, Wallis, McCrae, Dahlhaus, Stringer, Smith, JJ, Stevens, Hunter, Hrovat, Campbell

Players who I have ?? about, but am still hopeful
Jong (20), Roberts (20), Talia (21), Young (22), Tutt (23), Howard (23), Redpath (23)

Too early to tell
Bonts (but I'm excited), Fuller, Darley, Honeychurch, Prudden (needs to get on the track)

Delist/retire candidates
Goodes, Cordy, Pearce, Gia
Austin, Greenwood

There is no point delisting Cordy until he has proven, with a mature, developed body, that he won't make it. He has skills and he can run however he doesn't want to get hurt at the moment. That may change when he gets a bit stronger. If it doesn't he'll be moved on, but not yet.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

I'd happily give up pick 5 (or so), Cooney and JJ for Patton/pick two. Dunno if GWS would take it, but it's not a bad offer. Pick two is much more likely.

Don't want to trade Higgins, he has been very good this year. Only bloke with skills close to Murph's.

Cooney has no currency at all and neither does JJ for a GWS. JJ is only if interest to a team who needs half back speed - possibly Ess but they have Johns who is a better version of JJ.