Past #9: Andrew Swallow - 224 NM games - 3x Syds - captain '12-'16 - #43 '05 ND - thanks Spitta

[Saintly31]

The odd good moments won't do it for me but yeah I agree spitter should continue to captain as he is the best choice, the next best is miles behind

Yeah, I agree with that.

I'd say Jack was very lucky to have got Vice to start with off so little playing time compared to more senior options, and would be even more so for the Capt gig - it is way too early for someone who is injured often, and for two seasons has been playing more bad games than good.

Until that changes, he shouldn't be considered. Swallow stays until someone stands up that could offer more - the only person on our list that I believe could do that in future is LMac, and clearly he is too young.

As previous, I would revisit in a year or two and go from there, things can change quickly. In any case, I don't think our indifferent form has anything to do with Swallow.

 

[Mr Reliable]

Who would be captain if Spitta stepped down or, God forbid, was badly injured? According to some of you, nobody would be capable of doing it well. That, if you don't mind me saying, is crap. Someone out of 40 or so candidates would step up.

 

[DarwinRoo]

He would be in my 22 and no he shouldn't stand down as captain.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Swallow has still my vote as Capt , this thread seems to have an angle that our lack of success is based on our captain who isn't vocal on the football park.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Yes

 

[Dan]

 

[wandering123]

Disagree with the premise of this thread... but I'm bewildered that no one has mentioned Cunnington. In a couple years time he will be a shoe in.

 

[Wells Now Williams Fan]

Why so little mention of Wells being captain? He is a real leader at the club and only missed most

of this year because of Drews foot.

Wells would be my 1st choice right now ahead of anyone.

 

[Jimms]

Why so little mention of Wells being captain? He is a real leader at the club and only missed most

of this year because of Drews foot.

Wells would be my 1st choice right now ahead of anyone.

• Introverted
• Can go to water when the heat is on
• Missing large chunks of the season due to injury
• Personality doesn't exactly scream 'leader of men'

they are basically the same person.

 

[Wells Now Williams Fan]

• Introverted
• Can go to water when the heat is on
• Missing large chunks of the season due to injury
• Personality doesn't exactly scream 'leader of men'

they are basically the same person.

* Is Andrew Swallow an extrovert???
* Can't go to water when heat is on is just crap !!!
* Wasn't his fault like i mentioned above.
* Does Andrew Swallows personality scream that???

 

[justroyal]

* Is Andrew Swallow an extrovert???
* Can't go to water when heat is on is just crap !!!
* Wasn't his fault like i mentioned above.
* Does Andrew Swallows personality scream that???

I have always been a wells fan and often wondered "Why not captain?" Jimms did give a fair description. Swallow wants to be captain. Wells just doesn't want it. Over the years its evident he has problems with his own game where he can't sustain four quarters week in and week out. Now not discouraging him, he clearly shows he is frustrated with his game.

Now if the same wells from the freo game where jackie chan in mid air showed his face each week. My god he would be captain in a heartbeat

 

[Jimms]

* Is Andrew Swallow an extrovert???
* Can't go to water when heat is on is just crap !!!
* Wasn't his fault like i mentioned above.
* Does Andrew Swallows personality scream that???

if you paid attention, i carefully crafted a list that could be applied to either andrew or daniel. the reasons you want to strip swallow of the captaincy are the same personality traits that wells has.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Swallow is not a Carey-like captain - so what. He is our best player however. When playing in form, he leads from the front.

The leadership issues have been blown out of proportion. He is definitely our best choice for captain as it stands. Down the track, I wouldn't mind a joint capatinship of Swallow/Ziebell or Ziebell/Cunnington. Thompson, Thomas, Wells, NDS, Harvey, Silver and Drew in the leadership group with them.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Swallow is not a Carey-like captain - so what. He is our best player however. When playing in form, he leads from the front.

The leadership issues have been blown out of proportion. He is definitely our best choice for captain as it stands. Down the track, I wouldn't mind a joint capatinship of Swallow/Ziebell or Ziebell/Cunnington. Thompson, Thomas, Wells, NDS, Harvey, Silver and Drew in the leadership group with them.

Boomer's already left the leadership group and I'd like to see Drew do the same thing at the end of the year so he can just focus on his footy from now on and give one of the younger guys e.g. Macmillan, McDonald, Cunners etc more responsibility.

 

[JZTIME!]

spitter will be back with a bang next year. A big pre season and we will see him back to his form of early last year. Scary considering we are 6th now with he and Wellsy playing bits

 

[King Corey]

Boomer's already left the leadership group and I'd like to see Drew do the same thing at the end of the year so he can just focus on his footy from now on and give one of the younger guys e.g. Macmillan, McDonald, Cunners etc more responsibility.

Agree and Cunners especially is almost ready for it now.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

spitter will be back with a bang next year. A big pre season and we will see him back to his form of early last year. Scary considering we are 6th now with he and Wellsy playing bits

So, next year is our year?

 

[Wells Now Williams Fan]

if you paid attention, i carefully crafted a list that could be applied to either andrew or daniel. the reasons you want to strip swallow of the captaincy are the same personality traits that wells has.

You are completely wrong there.

The sole reason for me is i believe he can't return to anywhere near the form of his pre achilles injury to lift us over the line

and has zero to to with the above list.

I hope the little pace he had returns in 2015 as if not, then the game will pass him by as him getting 20 touches and turning over 7 times

is not an AFL finals captains level.

 

[Long Live the King]

No...some around him should step up

 

[JZTIME!]

So, next year is our year?

We can only hope but with the personnel depth or lack of conditioning with a lot of our guys we are tracking ok.

 

[Kimbo]

I'm no great fan of Swallow's leadership, but it's little to do with form. I'm assuming, and hoping, his form picks up again in 2015 and am more than prepared to give him some slack in relation to this, given his injury.

Be it based on 'on field feats' that inspire or the kind of person that is inspirational, I'd like us to have a captain and players, for that matter, that (help) inspire, connect and galvanise others more than I reckon Swallow probably does. Ideally, of course, leadership within the team is distributed and many or all bring something to this collective endeavour.

That said, nothing is changing anytime soon.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

Still don't see why it has to be a midfielder.

Have already mentioned Scott T, Jamie MacMillan is another one who displays some strong captaincy traits.

As Nick Maxwell has shown you don't have to be the most dynamic or high profile player on a list to be the best captain.

LOL JMac???

I assume you are talking North Ballarat.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Swallow is not a Carey-like captain - so what. He is our best player however. When playing in form, he leads from the front.

The leadership issues have been blown out of proportion. He is definitely our best choice for captain as it stands. Down the track, I wouldn't mind a joint capatinship of Swallow/Ziebell or Ziebell/Cunnington. Thompson, Thomas, Wells, NDS, Harvey, Silver and Drew in the leadership group with them.

Forgot JMac. We have missed his cool head down back and as a defensive presence in the middle. As others have hinted at, leadership doesn't come from just the Captain, VC or leadership group. It should be across the board. As a team, everyone should show leadership. If that means getting vocal and encouraging team mates, going in to protect your players, shepherding, bumping blocking or just sticking to your small role, it is a team effort.

In a way, visible on-field leadership from the captain can either be symptomatic of or precursory to the above things not happening. Unfortunately, because their is a systematic lack of leadership in the team, Swallow's more "introverted" leadership style tends to seem ineffective.

Compare the type of leadership that we had in North's glory days vs now. Back then we had the best player to play the game as our Captain, a guy who could lead by example, was egotistical enough to pull any player in our team in line as well as inspire the whole playing group. We also had a vast number of players (Stevens, Bell, Simpson, Harvey, McKernan, Grant, Archer) under him who could have made great captains as well. The third tier of leaders, knew how to play as a team and protect the team - they could also go in and do their job (Pike, Martyn, Blakey, Scholl, King).

We are here comparing Swallow's leadership to some of the best leaders in the game now and of the past. Was the success of the leadership of Carey's North 1993-2001 due Carey's Captaincy, was it due to leadership of the group or a bit of both?

 

[Kimbo]

Forgot JMac. We have missed his cool head down back and as a defensive presence in the middle. As others have hinted at, leadership doesn't come from just the Captain, VC or leadership group. It should be across the board. As a team, everyone should show leadership. If that means getting vocal and encouraging team mates, going in to protect your players, shepherding, bumping blocking or just sticking to your small role, it is a team effort.

In a way, visible on-field leadership from the captain can either be symptomatic of or precursory to the above things not happening. Unfortunately, because their is a systematic lack of leadership in the team, Swallow's more "introverted" leadership style tends to seem ineffective.

Compare the type of leadership that we had in North's glory days vs now. Back then we had the best player to play the game as our Captain, a guy who could lead by example, was egotistical enough to pull any player in our team in line as well as inspire the whole playing group. We also had a vast number of players (Stevens, Bell, Simpson, Harvey, McKernan, Grant, Archer) under him who could have made great captains as well. The third tier of leaders, knew how to play as a team and protect the team - they could also go in and do their job (Pike, Martyn, Blakey, Scholl, King).

We are here comparing Swallow's leadership to some of the best leaders in the game now and of the past. Was the success of the leadership of Carey's North 1993-2001 due Carey's Captaincy, was it due to leadership of the group or a bit of both?

Yep.

Carey and Corey the raw big man talent and inspirational contested marks and, with Longmire, long goals.
Allison, Bell, Harvey and Grant provided the enthusiasm and zing.
Stevo, Arch, Martyn, Pikey the toughness and competitive spirit.
Blakey, Simpson the off field (and on field) consistency.
Roberts and Scott the renewed consistency at a new home.
Carey and King the 'in your face' lip.

You also look at the 'who's who' of this mob in terms of post-playing career, with the likes of Simpson, Blakey, Crocker, Grant, Allison in successful coaching roles. Carey and King in the media. Stevo and Arch in player management. Leadership talent all beyond the playing field.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Yep.

Carey and Corey the raw big man talent and inspirational contested marks and, with Longmire, long goals.
Allison, Bell, Harvey and Grant provided the enthusiasm and zing.
Stevo, Arch, Martyn, Pikey the toughness and competitive spirit.
Blakey, Simpson the off field (and on field) consistency.
Roberts and Scott the renewed consistency at a new home.
Carey and King the 'in your face' lip.

You also look at the 'who's who' of this mob in terms of post-playing career, with the likes of Simpson, Blakey, Crocker, Grant, Allison in successful coaching roles. Carey and King in the media. Stevo and Arch in player management. Leadership talent all beyond the playing field.

By what you have just said, posters potting Swallow may be just a tad harsh when he is coming back from serious injury, our two match winners (Harvey and Wells) are either not the most physical or uninjured types, and he is leading a young midfield that is inconsistent and playing under the now questionable direction of a stubborn coach. Swallow wears the captain's badge and unfortunately, he is somehow the face of the inconsistency and disappointment that has marred the team for the past two seasons...