Eagles don't deserve a final/percentage?

[Shupe]

All these ideas just arbitrarily pick a random sample of the season, rather than how it should be looked at - as a whole. The way it currently works is easily the fairest, based on the whole season.

 

[TroyUgle]

Howse this then, have a top 8 with 8th spot being "Wildcarded" on the team with the most wins in a row in the last 6-8 games ? that way a team that is building momentum and could genuinely be competitive gets in. Richmond deserve the spot on this basis I think currently and they would definitely challenge a top 7 better than we ever could at the moment.

This actually isn't a bad idea.

Start next season?

 

[ziad]

you make at you are in - there is no deserve. not as if the draw and comp is even after all.

 

[lmach]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[eaglespremiers]

I feel like last year and Carlton was the time to complain about a team "not deserving" getting in.
And even they managed to win a final.

 

[Public Enemy No1]

His logic is as flawed as that of the Anti Priddis brigade....embarrassing really

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

His logic is as flawed as that of the Anti Priddis brigade....embarrassing really

Congrats, this was the one thread the Priddis debate hadn't been brought up.

 

[Public Enemy No1]

Congrats, this was the one thread the Priddis debate hadn't been brought up.

Thought it was interesting the 'logic' people can conjure to explain things they have a vested interest in but ultimately have very little idea about.
The parallels between this article and the Priddis thread are spooky (or mind numbing)

 

[matt_bas]

I can't believe everyone disagrees with what he's saying!?! The draw is unfair, let's get a petition going to fix it, get rid of the preseason cup, merge The demons & The Roos as there's no other way the Dees will improve, Merge Carlton with Collingwood (there basically the same anyways) and everyone plays each other twice. 30 round season, plus finals, plus 2 bye rounds brings it to a 36 round season. More footy on TV, we get an even draw, win win.

 

[dajesmac]

I question the language.

What does it mean to deserve a spot in the top eight. You either get there based on the numbers or you don't. There's no deserve about it.

I guess he suggests we don't measure up to those sides that have finished 7th or 8th in years gone by.

Stupid language though yes.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I guess he suggests we don't measure up to those sides that have finished 7th or 8th in years gone by.

That's like saying the team that wins the grand final doesn't deserve a premiership because they're not as good as the team that won the year before.

You win or you lose. There's no deserve.

 

[dajesmac]

That's like saying the team that wins the grand final doesn't deserve a premiership because they're not as good as the team that won the year before.

You win or you lose. There's no deserve.

I think a better example would be suggesting that a team didn't deserve a flag because they were of a much lower quality than teams that generally win flags, but perhaps benefited from a lack of competition that year, or maybe the opposition was crippled with injury at the last minute, I dunno.

West Coast may be a relatively weak side compared to finalists in previous years but we're in with a shot because we've benefited from the rest of the competition either stumbling at the final hurdle, or leaving their run too late. So maybe it's debatable that we're a worthy finalist (although as I said before - arguably none of Adelaide, Collingwood, Richmond or Gold Coast are 'deserving' either).

I suppose the author was suggesting that top eight sides should be able to beat sides at/around their own level, rather than just beating up on easier sides and inflating their percentage - which we are guilty of somewhat.

I'm actually more or less with you I just have a habit of playing devil's advocate.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I think a better example would be suggesting that a team didn't deserve a flag because they were of a much lower quality than teams that generally win flags.

That would still be ridiculous. You're not competing against teams from previous seasons.

You might argue that the premiership side in whatever year was not as good as other premiership sides. But to claim they didn't deserve to win a premiership is nonsensical. They got to the grand final and won. That's all there is to it. There's no other bullshit invented threshold.

Same goes for the top 8. To play finals, you have to have a record that places you in the top eight. You either have it or you don't. Since when is there some wishy-washy moral judgement brought to bear on that?

West Coast may be a relatively weak side compared to finalists in previous years but we're in with a shot because we've benefited from the rest of the competition either stumbling at the final hurdle, or leaving their run too late.

Really? I don't accept that. I think our list is better than plenty of finalists from recent years.

And what is "stumbling at the final hurdle" or "leaving their run too late"? Are those bullshit euphemisms for not winning enough games?

How are those teams more deserving if there are eight sides ahead of them?

 

[dajesmac]

Really? I don't accept that. I think our list is better than plenty of finalists from recent years.

And what is "stumbling at the final hurdle" or "leaving their run too late"? Are those bullshit euphemisms for not winning enough games?

How are those teams more deserving if there are eight sides ahead of them?

It's not the worst but it doesn't stack up great. That's if you look at our actual performance not the state of our list.

They were actually specific references to current sides. Collingwood and the Gold Coast started the year well but are seemingly cooked. Richmond and Adelaide are putting together some good form that may not overcome their terrible starts.

 

[Ian Dargie]

It's not the worst but it doesn't stack up great.

This is a non-statement.

That's if you look at our actual performance not the state of our list.

If we beat GC, we'll have 11 wins with a healthy percentage. Generally, that's enough to put a side in the mix to play finals.

I just don't accept this idea that there's some other metric for who should play finals, other than who finishes in the top eight on the ladder.

They were actually specific references to current sides. Collingwood and the Gold Coast started the year well but are seemingly cooked. Richmond and Adelaide are putting together some good form that may not overcome their terrible starts.

OK. So why are these sides more deserving?

I just don't get how that applies. Teams are ranked based on how many games they win and then percentage, which is an aggregate of how much they scored versus how much their opponent scored.

Did Adelaide deserve to have a higher percentage? Did Gold Coast deserve to have more wins?

 

[Dark Sharks]

His logic is as flawed as that of the Anti Priddis brigade....embarrassing really

Thought it was interesting the 'logic' people can conjure to explain things they have a vested interest in but ultimately have very little idea about.
The parallels between this article and the Priddis thread are spooky (or mind numbing)

So apparently members of Matts fanclub are allowed to take potshots at the "illogical anti brigade" in any thread they like are they?

The only thing 'embarrassing' is your blind faith in someone who copped his first tag last week. Looked like he enjoyed it too. You must have been impressed.

 

[Piss Poor]

That would still be ridiculous. You're not competing against teams from previous seasons.

You might argue that the premiership side in whatever year was not as good as other premiership sides. But to claim they didn't deserve to win a premiership is nonsensical. They got to the grand final and won. That's all there is to it. There's no other bullshit invented threshold.

Same goes for the top 8. To play finals, you have to have a record that places you in the top eight. You either have it or you don't. Since when is there some wishy-washy moral judgement brought to bear on that?

Really? I don't accept that. I think our list is better than plenty of finalists from recent years.

And what is "stumbling at the final hurdle" or "leaving their run too late"? Are those bullshit euphemisms for not winning enough games?

How are those teams more deserving if there are eight sides ahead of them?

I agree, our list has massively under achieved this year, we are a good team just getting use to a new game plan, we would be one of the best 8th place team if we made it, with a full list we can match it with anyone but that's only if we play at our best which this years it's hasn't been at times.

 

[ConcreteWaters]

Realistically, we're a middle of the road side like Richmond, Collingwood, Adelaide and Gold Coast who are all vying for that final spot. We are the worst against current top 8 sides: 0-9. Richmond is 2-6, the Crows 2-8, Gold Coast 3-6 and Collingwood 5-4. Of all the teams unlucky to make it, Collingwood have been hit hard with injuries and according to the 'logic' of this article (loose term), 'deserve' to play finals. But like any premiership jaunt, injuries play a part and the 'best' team doesn't always win, particularly if they can't get on the park. A fit Collingwood team would be around the 4th-6th mark.

We don't do too badly against other top 8 teams, losing by an average of 28 points, which isn't too different from our rivals for 8th.
Richmond have lost by an average of 30, Adelaide 29, Collingwood 40, Gold Coast 44.

We do quite well against out rivals for 8th spot (Rich, Coll, Adel, GC): 3 wins, 2 losses
Richmond are 1 win, 3 losses
Collingwood are 2 wins, 4 losses
Adelaide are 4 wins, 2 losses
GC are 2 wins, 2 losses

We've also made it count against the bad sides, where our rivals have sometimes lost games. We've been competitive against most top 8 sides, beaten the sides around us and smashed some sides below us....ie: middle of the road.

Surely the best way to get rid of the inequalities in the draw would be to merge some Melbourne clubs. From a competition equality standpoint, it's ludicrous to have suburban clubs next to each other (like Carlton, Collingwood and Richmond), whilst having two clubs representing whole states (WA, SA, Qld, NSW) in what is supposed to be a national competition.

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

I found it pretty hard to disagree with much in the article - it was certainly more cogent than a lot of the knee-jerk herpaderp going on in here.

Ultimately he was saying that because the fixturing is not equal, teams that get extra opportunities to beat up on weaker teams can boost their percentage by doing so. Of course the corollary to this is that for every extra easy game you get, somebody else gets a tougher game which further affects their percentage. Because of this inequality there is a reasonable argument to be made that percentage is not a particularly fair tie-breaker. Conversely, if the fixturing inequality did not exist, it would be much more acceptable.

That is an argument that is made by many people and has little to do with us 'deserving' a spot in the 8 or not. If anything makes it a bad article it is the fact that it didn't actually argue anything new - it just used our current circumstances to color an old point.

 

[Jack_the_Ninja]

So a team that ends their season with close wins over Melbourne, GWS and St. Kilda would get into the finals over a side who just loses to Sydney, Hawthorn and Fremantle?

Yes. Losing games is "as infectious" as winning them is.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

that was one of the weirdest articles ive read.

so basically because all the other teams ****ed up wce still dont deserve to get in.

alll righteeeee then.....

think i lost a few brain cells

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Yes. Losing games is "as infectious" as winning them is.

It's a bad idea full stop. The system now is pretty much perfect.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

this guy sucks. If you are on here sir shit writer and Eagles basher, you suck!

 

[Shupe]

Congrats, this was the one thread the Priddis debate hadn't been brought up.

I guess this is one of those situations where we can try to stop it before it continues…

 

[King LeBron]

Sure we've been flat track bullies, but our percentage hasn't taken a huge hit when we've been defeated because we've been largely competitive in our losses this year. Our defeats this year:

Geelong - 75 points
Port Adelaide - 14 points
Carlton - 3 points
Fremantle - 19 points
Collingwood - 8 points
North Melbourne - 38 points
Hawthorn - 44 points
Fremantle - 7 points
Sydney - 24 points
Richmond - 17 points
Essendon - 3 points

8 of our 11 losses this year have been equal to or less than 4 goals.