Certified Legendary Thread Sympathy for *essendon - congratulations on '16 Wooden Spoon (RIP The Scales)

[LuvtheKangas]

After a while every thread with an ASADA theme looks and reads the same. I am going to blame LuvtheKangas changing his avatar for my disorientation, plus I haven't had a beer yet.

You're lagging behind. I'm on my 3rd.

 

[utility]

A lawyer has just one master and it's usually the person with the cheque book.

Lawyers are officers of the Supreme Court. They serve the Courts not their clients.

 

[LT Smash]

Lawyers are officers of the Supreme Court. They serve the Courts not their clients.

Pixies live at the bottom of the garden etc

 

[jacko57]

You did see that post, I was replying to jacko57 - but I thought I was in the SCN 2.0 thread, not here. Didn't want to intrude on your gloating. Cheers.

EDIT: Much, much smarter people? Okey mete.

Alright then : much, much, much, much smarter people.

Happy?

 

[astrovic]

Lawyers are officers of the Supreme Court. They serve the Courts not their clients.

Nah.

Lawyers owe duties to both the court and their client. Where those duties conflict, their duty to the court prevails.

Which means they still owe duties to their clients.

 

[Dodecahedron]

Which adult allows themselves to be injected 100 times without knowing what's in the needles?
Would you agree to do it in your workplace? .......even if your boss said "trust me".
The players and players association are confusing the terms "innocent victims" with "moronic sheep-like imbeciles".
Why is there no blind fury from the * players at Mr Tird? Deep down all * supporters probably agree with me.

 

[The Scales]

Which adult allows themselves to be injected 100 times without knowing what's in the needles?
Would you agree to do it in your workplace? .......even if your boss said "trust me".
The players and players association are confusing the terms "innocent victims" with "moronic sheep-like imbeciles".
Why is there no blind fury from the * players at Mr Tird? Deep down all * supporters probably agree with me.

Solely my view, I cant speak for other * supporters - but I feel the players trusted that they had recieved what they had consented to.

If I was employed in an elite athletic field, had done my research and found there was greater efficacy in subcutaneous, intramuscular or intravenous treatments (without breaking WADA/ASADA compliance), I'd be all for it. Not so much if I was a receptionist or a cleaner, no matter what the boss said.

If the players recieved saline, smack, TB4 or HGH then they are victims of not being given the supplements/drugs they consented to.

The lack of fury is likely to stem from the fact that the players clearly anticipated improvement by supporting the (spectacularly failed) supplement program, and were sold on the fact that some other clubs were way ahead of the game in this respect.

So sorry, most * supporters may agree with you, but not this little black duck.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

"Hopefully the evidence in the massive 350 pages of documentation state time & date of each injection"


Gee...I wonder why they don't have those
Their stupidity increases the longer this drags on

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Solely my view, I cant speak for other * supporters - but I feel the players trusted that they had recieved what they had consented to.

If I was employed in an elite athletic field, had done my research and found there was greater efficacy in subcutaneous, intramuscular or intravenous treatments (without breaking WADA/ASADA compliance), I'd be all for it. Not so much if I was a receptionist or a cleaner, no matter what the boss said.

If the players recieved saline, smack, TB4 or HGH then they are victims of not being given the supplements/drugs they consented to.

The lack of fury is likely to stem from the fact that the players clearly anticipated improvement by supporting the (spectacularly failed) supplement program, and were sold on the fact that some other clubs were way ahead of the game in this respect.

So sorry, most * supporters may agree with you, but not this little black duck.

I definitely agree that the * players were lied to as some point and l do feel (unlike several on here) sorry to a degree for the players. Now's the time to brave and go against the club and go l'm not 100% sure what they put in me, the club told me this, but all this evidence says otherwise. That is my outrage at * rather than at the players, to have misled so many young impressionable players at one time as borderline gunia pigs is disgusting and will almost if not destroy *.

 

[The Scales]

I definitely agree that the * players were lied to as some point and l do feel (unlike several on here) sorry to a degree for the players. Now's the time to brave and go against the club and go l'm not 100% sure what they put in me, the club told me this, but all this evidence says otherwise. That is my outrage at * rather than at the players, to have misled so many young impressionable players at one time as borderline gunia pigs is disgusting and will almost if not destroy *.

The bolded is my point of differentiation from your (and most others) POV. I have no faith in the "evidence" presented to date, and want it presented in an independent forum where there is no regard for revenue, job security, TV rights, bonuses or career enhancement.

I still have (blind, dumb) trust in the expectation, that no-one at * would allow the trashing of an iconic sporting "brand", for a risk-laden venture into deliberate cheating.

I still hold out hope that I will be proven right, I cannot deny that I may be proven very. very wrong.

P.S. Up to five jars now - but fatigue setting in. Second wind is my only chance of hitting double figures.

 

[The Scales]

Didn't the club state several times that the substances were not for performance enhancement? Not sure why they were being taken then? And the fact they were trying to achieve some mythical utopia at other clubs (which was probably delusional paranoia), should have been further cause for the Dr and Coach to have been removed not rewarded. C'mon mate aren't you a teenie weenie bit p1ssed off with Jimmy?

Not in the least, hand on heart. I swear I deem it his responsibility to push the envelope to the limit (without transgressing), otherwise GTFO & get in someone who is prepared to go hard to chase the ultimate.

I'd be disappointed in any coach that didn't explore all options - physically, mentally and pharmacologically (within the guidelines).

If it doesn't break the rules - go hard at it. Just sayin'.

 

[milpod]

Not in the least, hand on heart. I swear I deem it his responsibility to push the envelope to the limit (without transgressing), otherwise GTFO & get in someone who is prepared to go hard to chase the ultimate.

I'd be disappointed in any coach that didn't explore all options - physically, mentally and pharmacologically (within the guidelines).

If it doesn't break the rules - go hard at it. Just sayin'.

You must be so proud of your *club.The way they have battled on under such unfound criticism and adversity is just #sobrave.A model the competition should emulate.#hidethestash

 

[gokangas]

Solely my view, I cant speak for other * supporters - but I feel the players trusted that they had recieved what they had consented to.

If I was employed in an elite athletic field, had done my research and found there was greater efficacy in subcutaneous, intramuscular or intravenous treatments (without breaking WADA/ASADA compliance), I'd be all for it. Not so much if I was a receptionist or a cleaner, no matter what the boss said.

If the players recieved saline, smack, TB4 or HGH then they are victims of not being given the supplements/drugs they consented to.

The lack of fury is likely to stem from the fact that the players clearly anticipated improvement by supporting the (spectacularly failed) supplement program, and were sold on the fact that some other clubs were way ahead of the game in this respect.

So sorry, most * supporters may agree with you, but not this little black duck.

I don't think many people would disagree with your post in principle but at the end of the day everyone knows that you are responsible for what you take. The claims that players were coerced or bullied into taking the supplements doesn't take away any blame from them. It may open legal avenues to sue the club for their poor management but thats a different story. Its all a bit like Warnie blaming his mum. His mum didn't take the suspension. All of this and hird is still your coach after overseeing this complete disaster.

 

[Dodecahedron]

I definitely agree that the * players were lied to as some point and l do feel (unlike several on here) sorry to a degree for the players. Now's the time to brave and go against the club and go l'm not 100% sure what they put in me, the club told me this, but all this evidence says otherwise. That is my outrage at * rather than at the players, to have misled so many young impressionable players at one time as borderline gunia pigs is disgusting and will almost if not destroy *.

Kangaroos4Eva, you seem to be empathetic to the * players and their plight. I probably am too (sort of). But I just don't like that the players have never accepted any responsibility either. Not even an admission of naivety. I ask you the same question I asked before: would you personally allow your workplace to inject you 100 times if you didn't know what was in the needles?

 

[GarnerSmash]

There are 34 players stressed, sullied and sleepless. There is an unsavoury saga which has dragged on for too long. In the past many players have been sacked for bringing their club or the AFL into disrepute. Regardless of guilt or innocence JamesHird has not only brought * into disrepute but spat in disrepute's face. There are definitely grounds for dismissal despite his contract being in place. My question to * supporters is: why is James Hird still your coach? Your club is scared of him and his note taking assistant.

You've got it completely wrong. James is fighting against forces who want to bring him down (can't really come up with a valid reason) and should be sainted for the lengths he is willing to go to stand up for the little man against this un-Australian effort to besmirch his good name. His long term links with a known drug traffiker and steroid dealer are an innocent coincidence as is his usage of vanity drugs onsite where elite athletes operated. These have no link whatsoever to the alleged activities of Stephen Dank who was operating rogue anyway and who we wont ask for details of what he gave our players because, well, just cos.

 

[ChopChopDigDig]

The bolded is my point of differentiation from your (and most others) POV. I have no faith in the "evidence" presented to date, and want it presented in an independent forum where there is no regard for revenue, job security, TV rights, bonuses or career enhancement.

I still have (blind, dumb) trust in the expectation, that no-one at * would allow the trashing of an iconic sporting "brand", for a risk-laden venture into deliberate cheating.

I still hold out hope that I will be proven right, I cannot deny that I may be proven very. very wrong.

P.S. Up to five jars now - but fatigue setting in. Second wind is my only chance of hitting double figures.

Why then, if the *club knew there was no wrong doing and no possible way for ASADA to have hard evidence, has the *club tried to fight the AFL/ASADA through the courts on the process rather than take on the evidence?

If the *club had just followed the correct process & be found not-guilty, then there is a time to sue ASADA/AFL to clear the *clubs (and *hirds) name. Instead, your shit-stain of a *club have dragged our competition into the gutter for two years, only to be in exactly the same situation you were 24 months ago.

I hope ASADA and WADA go as hard as they can at you *scum, cos you've put irreparable damage on our game, ASADAs and AFLs authority and Australian sport in general.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Kangaroos4Eva, you seem to be empathetic to the * players and their plight. I probably am too (sort of). But I just don't like that the players have never accepted any responsibility either. Not even an admission of naivety. I ask you the same question I asked before: would you personally allow your workplace to inject you 100 times if you didn't know what was in the needles?

As l said, l'm under the assumption that they were lied to because l'm sure all club's medico's use syringes of some sort at stages of the pre-season/summer and the vast majority of players were probably told that they were protein extracts etc, not peptides and strange mexican chemicals. Don't get me wrong l despise * and wouldn't mind the club going down in a heap, but l do feel empathy for the players because they were probably lied to and many of them still believe that lie until the evidence starting creeping through i.e. Ryder and Crameri breaking ranks because that's what they were led to believe and they trust the club* for whatever reason. The sad thing is nobody really knows what was put in him and could future ramifications in terms of mental and physical help, including drug addiction, which steriod's can induce at a later date.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

But my point is: at what stage did the players say "this doesn't feel right. I demand to know exactly what is being injected, why I am having it and what it is proposed to improve". They are guilty of not asking the questions therefore not doing their due diligence. They may have been lied to but how many could hand on heart tell us what they at least thought they were taking?

To a degree yes, that's why many of us describe * as a cult and to many players have bought into the culture of hird. Some probably did and I'm confident most players are now, bit up until recently there was a lack of direct evidence to prove that they did take steroids. Who knows though some were probably told to put up and shut up.

 

[Horace]

As l said, l'm under the assumption that they were lied to because l'm sure all club's medico's use syringes of some sort at stages of the pre-season/summer and the vast majority of players were probably told that they were protein extracts etc, not peptides and strange mexican chemicals. Don't get me wrong l despise * and wouldn't mind the club going down in a heap, but l do feel empathy for the players because they were probably lied to and many of them still believe that lie until the evidence starting creeping through i.e. Ryder and Crameri breaking ranks because that's what they were led to believe and they trust the club* for whatever reason. The sad thing is nobody really knows what was put in him and could future ramifications in terms of mental and physical help, including drug addiction, which steriod's can induce at a later date.

Irrespective of whether they were lied to or not, I can't understand why anyone would allow themselves to be injected up to 100 times with substances they knew nothing about, without querying what they were being given and why or alternatively making some independent enquiries and doing their own research. In a normal environment people are injected only for medical purposes, in an endeavour to cure some form of medical condition. Presumably the players did not have medical conditions and certainly not all 34 would have had a medical condition in unison with one another.

I just find it completely unbelievable that at some stage some of these players did not reflect on what an unusual process they were all going through. The alleged process was far from mainstream. Surely then there were some warning bells; surely they were not all of them, that devoid of a normal functioning brain; to just assume it was all okay.

Perhaps I am by nature, suspicious of anything that someone wants to give to me for consumption and especially by injection. I have never been to any medical practitioner, where I have not had fully explained to me what the diagnosis was and what the proposed treatment involved; or if the treatment was not explained to me, then I have asked the medic to tell me what was wrong and what the treatment was comprised of and how it would benefit me.

And if they were told they were protein extracts, then why did they need to be taken by injection? Why not by mouth under the supervision of a qualified dietician?

I just think it is too easy for the players to run the line of "we trusted the club". I don't think they deserve too much leeway because of that excuse.

 

[Kimbo]

You don't have to be cynical to hold this view, it is consistent with the overwhelming evidence of how the AFL operates to do anything to protect the brand. It's why better people (those with a demonstrable record of ethical corporate behaviour) are needed on the Commission - ones who have the balls to take a stand, even if it means the 'firm' takes a big hit. Short term pain for long term gain.

Ex-politicians need not apply.

Indeed.

Actually in some postmodernist post graduate work I did a few years back, looking at heroes, amongst other things, one naturally also contemplates the role of villians. It became clear to me that the villains in modern society and as portrayed in pop culture, eg cinema, are politicians and petty bureaucrats who make decisions that are, at worse, self-interested or short-term, maintain the status quo or risk averse, despite morality, evidence and/or common sense.

 

[LT Smash]

Not in the least, hand on heart. I swear I deem it his responsibility to push the envelope to the limit (without transgressing), otherwise GTFO & get in someone who is prepared to go hard to chase the ultimate.

I'd be disappointed in any coach that didn't explore all options - physically, mentally and pharmacologically (within the guidelines).

If it doesn't break the rules - go hard at it. Just sayin'.

You must wonder about the intelligence of the man* after he was "played" by a drug dealer to believe that certain other clubs were taking various substances, especially given that the drug dealer has admitted this was just a ruse to con your man* into instigating the disastrous program.

 

[Kimbo]

You must wonder about the intelligence of the man* after he was "played" by a drug dealer to believe that certain other clubs were taking various substances, especially given that the drug dealer has admitted this was just a ruse to con your man* into instigating the disastrous program.

 

[utility]

Nah.

Lawyers owe duties to both the court and their client. Where those duties conflict, their duty to the court prevails.

Which means they still owe duties to their clients.

You can only serve one master.

 

[utility]

Looking forward to when the ACC wiretaps and sms taps are on the public record.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Looking forward to when the ACC wiretaps and sms taps are on the public record.

I can't wait until everything is on the public record, l am curious to know what they took.