Preview National Draft discussion (Picks 14, 35, 43, 58)

[baldandbroke]

They're not linked at all.

That "requirement" is just something we made up ourselves. It's not in concrete. We only needed to do the deal if we thought, independently of anything else that happened, it would nett us better players than 10 and 47.

That is the crux of it right there DABM.

We will still get the guy we wanted at 10 at 14, and a player at 35 than we would have missed at 47.

This in no way says that whomever gets picked at 10 won't be a gun that some supporters don't look back in years to come and say "we could have had him" ... but the fact that we need more meat on our bones - we need more than 1 player to get us to the next level means we have different needs to other clubs. That second rounder is important to us. The two players we traded in are important to us.

Hell Port don't even have a pick until #57. That doesn't mean that their recruiters are idiots ... nor does Geelong moving to 10 mean that wells is a genius.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

This is exactly right. I think we've earmarked a defender in post-Rutten panic. We've already got Talia who is a gun. Would we REALLY use another first rounder on a No 2 defender? Surely we don't spend big on this when our midfield is screaming out for some pace/polish.

And a 2nd defender is one of the easier positions to fill with either a recycled player, a mature aged player or through free agency. Not exactly a blue chip position..

Would love us to have two explosive jets earmarked for our first two picks.. Maybe it is menadue we wanted all along with our first.. Who knows ?
No clues from our Fort Knox football club

 

[AFC979810]

But I think there is 2 or 3 defenders who we know will be there at 14 and we can't split them.. If that is the case kudos to our club for having the balls to do it..

If thats the case then we need new recruiters.

 

[baldandbroke]

If thats the case then we need new recruiters.

Such a petty commment AFC979810 .

Do you not think that ranking players in a draft is a guess at best, or do you think that each possible draftee gets a number that goes to 3 decimal places? So we pick player A who rates 7.564 over player B who rates 7.561 ??

I just imagined a recruiters forum, where there is some guy posting "If that's the case then we need new supporters".

 

[AFC979810]

Such a petty commment AFC979810 .

Do you not think that ranking players in a draft is a guess at best, or do you think that each possible draftee gets a number that goes to 3 decimal places? So we pick player A who rates 7.564 over player B who rates 7.561 ??

I just imagined a recruiters forum, where there is some guy posting "If that's the case then we need new supporters".

Why petty?

It is a recruiters job to identify and rank talent. If a recruiter can't decide between 3 players that are inside the top 15 then what the hell have they been doing? That is their job and 100% what they are accountable for.

 

[baldandbroke]

Why petty?

It is a recruiters job to identify and rank talent. If a recruiter can't decide between 3 players that are inside the top 15 then what the hell have they been doing? That is their job and 100% what they are accountable for.

Because you seem to think that the players cannot be ranked equally, and therefore we should fire our recruiting team.

You are pushing an idea of recruiting that is so far from reality - that you are either being petty or need a lie down.

 

[azza77]

For those of you that have brought up his name in discussions, I have bad news for you.

Apparently Harrison Wigg was interviewed by every club bar 2, those 2 being hawthorn and the crows. He is also a hawks supporter.

Not too phased by this though, a good kick of the footy, but a little undersized and slow for my liking. Already have a few of those types.

 

[azza77]

I think we have a fundamental disagreement in the nature of our list then.

You obviously think we have a top 4 list that has just been sitting there under developed and screwed over by the head coach and his assistants.

I think we don't have that strong of a list (particularly 2013/2014) and our results are more of a reflection of our list than our coaching mess ups.



I do think that GWS and GC will be a force. Absolutely. Gold Coast are primed to make the finals in 2015 and GWS will make the finals in 2017. When these teams mature they will be downright scary.

Its the same thing with Port. Is Hinkley that brilliant? In my opinion he isn't. He has a side absolutely brimming with elite talent and has had an injury list that has been so good through his first two years.

Once again IMO our list just hasn't been that good.

I obviously think that we have a top 4, where in the hell did I say that? My point was that we have recruited some fantastic talent during the Rendell/Ogilvy + Noble reign, whether this be with early or late picks. It has rather been a failure on the coaching panels behalf, coupled with key injuries and players leaving that has left us underachieving from what realistic fans believe, and that is, we should be good enough to make the 8 given our 22 is on the park.

You just to be coming up with more and more rash and completely random comments about our recruiting team that give them absolutely no credit for the work they have done previously.

It's almost as if you see the recruiting and drafting process like a video game, where each players ability and potential is given in numerical form and you know exactly what you're getting each and every time. If so, then recruiting and drafting really wouldn't be that difficult now would it? Well reality check for you, it's not like that at all (obviously) and is a far more complicated process than what you are making it out to be in your posts.

 

[Huntercrow]

C'mon mate - Giles was always going to choose the club where he was most likely to get a game in the seniors. Essendon players getting banned only helps his cause.

Maybe in the short term as I mentioned but seriously why would anyone choose that alternative for the long term. I think we blew that one.

 

[baldandbroke]

Maybe in the short term as I mentioned but seriously why would anyone choose that alternative for the long term. I think we blew that one.

Or there were other factors in his decision that we have no idea about. Maybe.

 

[Mattrox]

I obviously think that we have a top 4, where in the hell did I say that? My point was that we have recruited some fantastic talent during the Rendell/Ogilvy + Noble reign, whether this be with early or late picks. It has rather been a failure on the coaching panels behalf, coupled with key injuries and players leaving that has left us underachieving from what realistic fans believe, and that is, we should be good enough to make the 8 given our 22 is on the park.

You just to be coming up with more and more rash and completely random comments about our recruiting team that give them absolutely no credit for the work they have done previously.

It's almost as if you see the recruiting and drafting process like a video game, where each players ability and potential is given in numerical form and you know exactly what you're getting each and every time. If so, then recruiting and drafting really wouldn't be that difficult now would it? Well reality check for you, it's not like that at all (obviously) and is a far more complicated process than what you are making it out to be in your posts.

Consitution: *****
Agility:********************
Endurance:*******
Kick:****
Both feet:***
Quick Hands:**************

<Create Character>

 

[AFC979810]

Consitution: *****
Agility:********************
Endurance:*******
Kick:****
Both feet:***
Quick Hands:**************

<Create Character>

Myke Cook?

 

[dogs105]

The whole debate about the pick swap, and whoever is chosen at 10 being a better player than 14 would be completely moot anyway IF we wouldn't have drafted that guy at 10 anyway, and would still have drafted our 14 pick if we had pick 10. If that's the case, we are moving up with the later pick for free.

 

[AFC979810]

I obviously think that we have a top 4, where in the hell did I say that? My point was that we have recruited some fantastic talent during the Rendell/Ogilvy + Noble reign, whether this be with early or late picks. It has rather been a failure on the coaching panels behalf, coupled with key injuries and players leaving that has left us underachieving from what realistic fans believe, and that is, we should be good enough to make the 8 given our 22 is on the park.

You just to be coming up with more and more rash and completely random comments about our recruiting team that give them absolutely no credit for the work they have done previously.

Of course we have recruited some fantastic talent. I am not saying that we have shit recruiters. I just don't see how the people who have built a list that finished 11th, 14th, 2nd, 11th, 10th can be lauded as brilliant recruiters. And yes I understand that there are a lot more parts that go into a football club and success - like development, coaching, etc - but it all comes down to talent. As much as people on here try and compare us to a geelong at the end of 2006 - nothing could be further from the truth.

It's almost as if you see the recruiting and drafting process like a video game, where each players ability and potential is given in numerical form and you know exactly what you're getting each and every time. If so, then recruiting and drafting really wouldn't be that difficult now would it? Well reality check for you, it's not like that at all (obviously) and is a far more complicated process than what you are making it out to be in your posts.

Why do I view it like a video game?

Of course you don't know exactly what you're getting each and every time. However - the reason every team in the AFL has a recruiting team is to try and figure it out. Their jobs depend on it. If they fail - they get fired and rightly so.

In no way I am trying to make it out that its easy. Its just that these recruiters are paid to identify the talent. If they get it wrong its their balls on the line.

 

[AFC979810]

Because you seem to think that the players cannot be ranked equally, and therefore we should fire our recruiting team.

I am saying if our recruiting team can't decide which of the 3 best KPD are best - so therefore we are happy to let 2 other teams take first choice and take whatevers left at 14 then they absolutely need to get fired.

You are pushing an idea of recruiting that is so far from reality - that you are either being petty or need a lie down.

I would suggest that expecting our recruiter to have a clear list of 14 players in ranked order before the draft is neither petty nor a sign of someone needing a lie down. It is simply expecting someone to do their job.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

I can see Ahern slipping.................

 

[baldandbroke]

I am saying if our recruiting team can't decide which of the 3 best KPD are best - so therefore we are happy to let 2 other teams take first choice and take whatevers left at 14 then they absolutely need to get fired.

I would suggest that expecting our recruiter to have a clear list of 14 players in ranked order before the draft is neither petty nor a sign of someone needing a lie down. It is simply expecting someone to do their job.

I don't think you understand what a recruiters job is.

It's not a simple list from 1 to 100.

They have to plan for contingencies that will eventuate up to and including draft day - and satisfy the club's requests (not always the same as supporters requests).

For argument lets say we had it narrowed down to 4 players that were definitely going to be available after pick 10. Let's say all of those players have an equal amount of upside / potential (which is all you are dealing in with draft prospects) - so we don't think there is an enormous benefit in any one of them over the other 3. Would you then understand why we would think that it was worth pick 10 for pick 14 and 35?

Hell, all 4 might be available at 14 - then we just make our best guess ... and live with it. The other 3 might go on to be champions, but that wasn't apparent at this stage of their careers. I bet if you asked the recruiters from other clubs in the year that we took Angwin what they thought of him as a prospect - they would have all said "he has huge potential". It doesn't mean they should be fired, or reprimanded or anything of the sort.

I think that our recruiters will choose a player that they rate highly at pick 14 for our club. I personally will be a bit surprised if it is a key defender.

 

[azza77]

I can see Ahern slipping.................

And hopefully past us as well

 

[BrissyCrow]

Maybe in the short term as I mentioned but seriously why would anyone choose that alternative for the long term. I think we blew that one.

I thought I read somewhere that Giles had always wanted to play at Essendon. Not exactly sure what the detail was but when I read it I remember changing my disappointment towards the club to not getting Giles to a feeling of "well at least it wasn't because we are not a club of choice". Not sure if we stuffed up or whether the odds were simply against us from the start.

 

[Allefgib]

After 7 days MIA I'm back, and I'm a father!

What did I miss?

Mate, I'm way out of touch with most threads at present - just monitoring reports and reading what I can. As a consequence I missed this little nugget.
Well done and congratulations. I look forward to your 2am/3am postings.

 

[BrissyCrow]

I wish we could come to a consensus about what we really need. Some are talking a key defender, some are talking about speed/outside run. Some suggest that getting a support defender is easy. Some want a back up ruck. What really is our priority. I can imagine the uncertainty within the recruiters. What do we rate as our most important target. Honestly I just don't know. Would have loved to have our current picks plus pick 2&3.

 

[baldandbroke]

I wish we could come to a consensus about what we really need. Some are talking a key defender, some are talking about speed/outside run. Some suggest that getting a support defender is easy. Some want a back up ruck. What really is our priority. I can imagine the uncertainty within the recruiters. What do we rate as our most important target. Honestly I just don't know. Would have loved to have our current picks plus pick 2&3.

And no Danger? There is a whole thread about that hornets nest !!

 

[I Lost My Keays]

And hopefully past us as well

Don't you rate him?

 

[azza77]

Of course we have recruited some fantastic talent. I am not saying that we have shit recruiters. I just don't see how the people who have built a list that finished 11th, 14th, 2nd, 11th, 10th can be lauded as brilliant recruiters. And yes I understand that there are a lot more parts that go into a football club and success - like development, coaching, etc - but it all comes down to talent. As much as people on here try and compare us to a geelong at the end of 2006 - nothing could be further from the truth.



Why do I view it like a video game?

Of course you don't know exactly what you're getting each and every time. However - the reason every team in the AFL has a recruiting team is to try and figure it out. Their jobs depend on it. If they fail - they get fired and rightly so.

In no way I am trying to make it out that its easy. Its just that these recruiters are paid to identify the talent. If they get it wrong its their balls on the line.

People are praising our recruiters because, with the middle to low range picks of each round our club has obtained over the years, we have still managed to land ourselves in the top bracket for elite talent on our list. Hawks with 7, Port and Crows with 5. Sit down and look at the picks we have had, and then look at the amount of high end first round picks clubs like Hawks and Port have had. As a club we have done extremely well with the little we have been given.


Id be arguiing that much bigger issues, including coaching, administration and key pllayers MIA, have had a much larger impact on our ladder position than our drafting/recruiting team. They are not the problem.

 

[azza77]

Don't you rate him?

From what I've seen, no, or just nowhere near as highly as others. Very clean user of the footy by foot and hand, but makes poor decisions which let him down in my books. Rarely did I see him kick it to a team mates advantage, and he seems to loop his kicks a lot, rather than hit up targets on the chest. Is relatively quick off the mark, but similar to someone like Callinan, his top end speed seems quite poor.

Me personally, Im looking for elite kicking skills combined with elite pace. Ahern is just too slow for mine to be an effective outside mid, and we really dont need another in-between midfielder.

Players like Menadue, Gartlett, Laverde(wont slide that far obviously) are big ticks in my books. If not selecting a player at that elite speed end of the spectrum, then it has to be a KPD.