Past #18: Shaun Atley - delisted end '21 - 237 NM games / 44 NM goals - thanks Ats

[archereleven]

I think Cunners is best off without either of them TBH. It still annoys me that the form Cunnington displayed over the first half of last year has been so elusive since. It seems impossible for he and Spitter to play well in the same game

Would be interesting to back track a bit and see if Cunners and Spitta have been able to have legitimately good games together...

It would help both of them tremendously if they could get a contested ball out to someone in good position for once...

 

[Jay-Z]

Would be interesting to back track a bit and see if Cunners and Spitta have been able to have legitimately good games together...

It would help both of them tremendously if they could get a contested ball out to someone in good position for once...

I had a quick look on Footwire and of the 15 games they played together last year, one of them earned brownlow votes in 8 of those games. They never received votes in the same game

Obviously being in the best 3 players on the ground (according to the umps) is not the same as playing a good game but it lends weight to the suspicion

 

[archereleven]

I had a quick look on Footwire and of the 15 games they played together last year, one of them earned brownlow votes in 8 of those games. They never received votes in the same game

Obviously being in the best 3 players on the ground (according to the umps) is not the same as playing a good game but it lends weight to the suspicion

R6, 2013
R2, 2012
R18, 2012

are the only games i can find where both players had 25+ touches

f***

 

[Jay-Z]

R6, 2013
R2, 2012
R18, 2012

are the only games i can find where both players had 25+ touches

f***

Yep. It's a serious issue

Compare that to our game against freo on Saturday night. Their top 6 midfielders all had at least 25

 

[KangaRooster]

R6, 2013
R2, 2012
R18, 2012

are the only games i can find where both players had 25+ touches



Sounds about right though, Cunners broke through last year as soon as Spitta did his Achilles, and regressed as soon as he recovered.

 

[KangaRooster]

Re. Atley, I say give him ALL Ziebell's minutes (Ziebell to forward line playing Black's role) in the middle and let him hunt and chase the ball until he gets subbed out from exaustion. He'll work it out, he isn't a dumb footballer, he's weaved us out of more problems in the backline than I can count.

It's either that or drop him to VFL and let him play as the #1 inside midfielder until he's doing it with his eyes closed.

There's a part of me that thinks the reason he isn't being developed solely as an inside/first hands on it/see ball get ball midfielder, is the coaching staff think if he does make it, we have nowhere else to play the Captain and Cunners, whereas Ats can go to the half backline and be a solid player.

 

[Saintly31]

Yep. It's a serious issue

Compare that to our game against freo on Saturday night. Their top 6 midfielders all had at least 25

That's because their mids work well and know when to contest, when to sit back off, and work much harder/smarter into space to receive.

We way too similar, slow and vanilla in the middle (especially considering our outs) with everyone running to the ball and usually in congestion so guys are robbing it off each other.

Knowing the ^ we also set up to rebound as have numbers behind footy which is fine if you are damaging with the ball (like Hawks), but we have so many guys with average/poor footskills down back that plan will regularly be caught out on a decent forward press.

We desperately need better skills and smarter running. Hope it starts this week, we certainly have enough talent in the squad to play far better than we have shown.

 

[Jay-Z]

That's because their mids know where to run, when to sit back off, and work much harder/smarter into space to receive.

We way too similar, slow and vanilla in the middle (especially considering our outs) with everyone running to the ball and usually in congestion so guys are robbing it off each other.

We also set up to rebound as have numbers behind footy which is fine if you are damaging with the ball (like Hawks), but we have so many guys with average/poor footskills down back that plan will regularly be caught out on a decent forward press.

We desperately need better skills and smarter running.

I don't know about that. Ziebell and Spitta have both shown the ability to get a fair amount of ball outside of clearances. Cunners seems to be all or nothing (lots of clearances and lots of outside ball or a good/ok amount of clearances and no outside ball).

I certainly think our midfield is out of balance at the moment with the injuries we have but the main problem is one of form and consistency

 

[Saintly31]

I don't know about that. Ziebell and Spitta have both shown the ability to get a fair amount of ball outside of clearances. Cunners seems to be all or nothing (lots of clearances and lots of outside ball or a good/ok amount of clearances and no outside ball).

I certainly think our midfield is out of balance at the moment with the injuries we have but the main problem is one of form and consistency

Of course they can. So who gets it to them if they are outside? Cunners to do it all?

That's the point. We need all three pretty much inside/contesting to match other teams, but by doing that we are using our best players there and not outside. (with NDS and Wells, and 2013 Fishy missing)

Fact is we are missing 2014 Greenwood whether people like to admit it or otherwise, he released our more talented players and di a lot of the heavy lifting/blocking etc inside. It is also why I have no idea why we haven't played Dumont more than we have, sure it's limited exposure but he seems like even if he only gets 15 touches he frees up someone else.

 

[Jay-Z]

Of course they can. So who gets it to them if they are outside? Cunners to do it all?

That's the point. We need all three pretty much inside to match other teams, but by doing that we are using our best players there and not outside. It's why Gibbo looks so great - he is one of few who actually work all day and right place to receive as we lack options.

Fact is we are missing 2014 Greenwood whether people like to admit it or otherwise, he released our more talented players and di a lot of the heavy lifting/blocking etc inside. It is also why I have no idea why we haven't played Dumont more than we have (rather that having half a team of flankers), sure it's limited exposure but he seems like even if he only gets 15 touches he frees up someone else.

I disagree. There is no reason why those 3 can't play inside and then spread and get the link up possessions that Gibbo gets. It is just a matter of form and work rate.

I don't think it has anything to do with Greenwood. I don't know how you can say were too vanilla with Ziebs, Cunners and swallow and then say we need Greenwood too

 

[Saintly31]

I disagree. There is no reason why those 3 can't play inside and then spread and get the link up possessions that Gibbo gets. It is just a matter of form and work rate.

I don't think it has anything to do with Greenwood. I don't know how you can say were too vanilla with Ziebs, Cunners and swallow and then say we need Greenwood too

They aren't fast and/or good enough to play inside and outside - only a select few can and with more help. Cunners is the only one of the three I would say has been disappointing - Zeibs and Swallow have done ok for mine considering the circumstances.

Greenwood was arguably our best mid last year, and that allowed others to do more damage - even so we were vanilla last year too, just not as much and remember, I did say NDS and Wells out magnifies the vanilla.

 

[Saintly31]

Omitted.

Finally.

For his and our sake, thank god.

It's the right call, get some ball and confidence and come back a better player Ats.

 

[kangaspurs]

Needs to turn it around, and fast. He has all the attributes to be the best player on the list but at the rate he's going he'll be lucky to be a B grade footballer at best.

 

[Only Forwards]

Has time needs confidence.

Will be a gun.

 

[Bigeasy]

Has time needs confidence.

Will be a gun.

You reckon? Seems to panic when amongst other players.

 

[kangaspurs]

Has time needs confidence.

Will be a gun.

I certainly agree that he has still time to improve but when you compare his output to some of the players been taken in the same draft he's been very disappointing. Smith, Wallis, Guthrie, Cripps, Darling, Howe, Horlin-Smith, Parker, Libba, Fasolo, McDonald, Litherland, Johnson, Puopolo, Seedman, Hibberd, Dahlhaus, Johannisen, McGovern and Langford are players taken after him that are all either significantly outperforming him at the moment or have produced better football in the past than he has or at least the same level despite being taken well after him. That's not to mention the players taken before him that are producing incredibly more.

 

[Mr Reliable]

I certainly agree that he has still time to improve but when you compare his output to some of the players been taken in the same draft he's been very disappointing. Smith, Wallis, Guthrie, Cripps, Darling, Howe, Horlin-Smith, Parker, Libba, Fasolo, McDonald, Litherland, Johnson, Puopolo, Seedman, Hibberd, Dahlhaus, Johannisen, McGovern and Langford are players taken after him that are all either significantly outperforming him at the moment or have produced better football in the past than he has or at least the same level despite being taken well after him. That's not to mention the players taken before him that are producing incredibly more.

That's a damning list. OK, overall he's a better player than a few of those but he's falling down the list. What are we doing to these good young players? We seem to be stunting their development.

 

[Black2Blue]

That's a damning list. OK, overall he's a better player than a few of those but he's falling down the list. What are we doing to these good young players? We seem to be stunting their development.

TBH our player development reeks of over-coaching. There is so much onus placed of fulfilling a role within the team structure, that pure footballing abilities and instinct are being compromised. There is a fine line between developing the skills and disciplines required to play professional team sport and constraining a young player's unique talents and attributes.

These are just views from a distance, but I worry about our development path. The only way I would use the North development model in my training programs would be as a warning about excessive and misguided intervention rather than as a model to follow.

 

[Benno_900]

Late inclusion - mark my words

 

[shinboner spiggs]

One day we'll stumble across an elite player in the draft. Just wishing we could develop some guns of our own from nowhere you know...

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Rip the VFL to shreds, Shaun.

Rip. It. To. Shreds

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Should not be back until he gets 25 disposals and provide several running bounces in the VFL.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

TBH our player development reeks of over-coaching. There is so much onus placed of fulfilling a role within the team structure, that pure footballing abilities and instinct are being compromised. There is a fine line between developing the skills and disciplines required to play professional team sport and constraining a young player's unique talents and attributes.

These are just views from a distance, but I worry about our development path. The only way I would use the North development model in my training programs would be as a warning about excessive and misguided intervention rather than as a model to follow.

Agree vehemently with our first sentence.

Natural flair has been removed at all costs.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Reckon he'll be a late in for a tall

 

[Gasometer]

Is he a one trick pony that the opposition knows all about?

If so, Scotts needs to reinvent.

We stuffed around with Lachie for years...lets not Ats do the same way.

Try him off a Half Fwd flank or sthing creative.