Jason Dunstall vs Tony Lockett

[McRobie]

We should debate if Hodge or judd is better next, thats never been done as far as i know

Ablett Sr and Jr comparison never been explored either.

 

[HBF]

Plugger for me. No great reason other than I think I saw him play live more than Dunstall.
Both super players and legends of the game.

 

[StillAtLarge]

We should debate if Hodge or judd is better next, thats never been done as far as i know

Jayson Daniels vs Tony Woods?

 

[Roddy]

Realistically, how about something like Kelvin Moore vs David Dench? Very similar players, similar era in 2 successful teams of that era?

 

[TheFourPillars]

I'm sure there are. As I said they're both greats so Kernahan getting the nod at times would hardly surprise.

That one is Brereton for me though.

You and me mate Dermie along with Ayres. Lets just say its rare to get players like that these days

 

[WSmith]

Lockett easily better player he did it all. Id argue the greatest ever.

I think though Dermott said it best
Cant remember the quote but ...
If you want a FF for a year to play in your team ... DUNSTALL
If you want a FF to play for your life LOCKETT

Lockett better in terms of skill. Why I rate gary ablett snr the best and lockett second.
Dunstall no doubt was the machine and wow.
But for me i love skill over consistency.
Dunstall had both in spades but lockett had more skills and kicked more goals.
One year loxkett averaged 7, yes 7, in a wooden spoon team... Thats insane.

Fevola was a gun too pity about his problems and carltons culture. He couldve been a great FF.

 

[sr36]

Plugger by a long way.

Dunstall was a great, perfectly suited to the era he was playing in. Plugger was a great who would have been great in any era.

Dunstall was an explosive lead and had great hands, but he wasn't that tall, wasn't a great contested mark or a consistent threat at ground level. I struggle to see how would dominate in the modern era of crowded forward lines.

 

[latrell]

Plugger by a long way.

Dunstall was a great, perfectly suited to the era he was playing in. Plugger was a great who would have been great in any era.

Dunstall was an explosive lead and had great hands, but he wasn't that tall, wasn't a great contested mark or a consistent threat at ground level. I struggle to see how would dominate in the modern era of crowded forward lines.

Lol at Dunstall not being a threat at ground level. Ever seen his goal where he turned bruce doull inside out in a grand final? Or his goal at the whitten oval where he controlled the ball on the ground making doug Hawkins look stupid?

Dunstall gets pidgeon holed as a lead out take a mark kick a goal player which is just unfair. Easily the best player ive ever seen.

 

[who gives a]

Was a hawks supporter growing up and loved Dunstall. In my opinion he was a better FF than Lockett but only just

 

[Pessimistic]

I saw piggy struggle a couple of times in crowded forward lines, but I do think he was a great adaptor to circumstances.

Whether hed make it in modern football is debatable, but he was among those who developed modern football.

Professionalism, forward pressure, set plays, efficiency, that stuff

 

[Kerleys Ghost]

Plugger, no contest. Unstoppable force.

There's only one Tony Lockett.

 

[ringjustice]

I'd say Tony Lockett ahead of Jason "Mr Personality" Dunstall

 

[Gone Critical]

Lockett is the only great FF I can think of who played in predominantly poor teams. More than any possie bar FP a FF needs service from his team. Dunstall was an all time great but was advantaged by playing in a superior team meaning he got more ball to advantage.

Lockett didn't need that to succeed , he was just so much better than his opponents even a sniff was turned into goals.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Plugger by a fair margin for mine.

Dunstall an all time great - but had outstanding service for most, if not all, of his career.

Plugger played the first 11 seasons of his in mainly shithouse sides (particularly some of those 80's St Kilda sides) and kicked ton after ton and winning a Brownlow.

Also one of the scariest bastards to have laced a boot.

Plugger by a minor margin for mine.
Pound for pound Dunstall was probably the better player. But Plugger was essentially a few pounds heavier and slightly taller thus slightly more effective as an individual.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

People saying one or the other by a big margin, easily, streets, etc are making themselves look a bit silly. No player, ever, is streets ahead of Lockett or Dunstall who were both in the top few players ever to pull on a boot. All through their careers it was a hot debate (as to who was better) and whenever people ranked them, they would inavariably rank them within 1 or 2 places all time.

Wayne Carey, Glenn Archer, James Hird, Shane Crawford, Stephen Kernahan, Mike Sheehan are just a few of the football personalities that rate Dunstall higher than Lockett for example.

 

[gavaniacono]

Plugger by a long way.

Dunstall was a great, perfectly suited to the era he was playing in. Plugger was a great who would have been great in any era.

Dunstall was an explosive lead and had great hands, but he wasn't that tall, wasn't a great contested mark or a consistent threat at ground level. I struggle to see how would dominate in the modern era of crowded forward lines.

Dunstall was a way better defensive player, a very good tackler and chaser. The first full forward I can recall doing this consistently. It is now standard practice.

 

[stfan]

Well if you look at the coaches of the time.

On Lockett they always had at least two men on him. One game Sheedy had 4.

I do not recall Dunstall playing against multiple players each and every week.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Cant both just be champions that we were lucky enough to see go around and have highlights to watch

No! One is clearly streets ahead, flemington straight, miles, easily, etc etc, better than the other.

 

[gavaniacono]

To be pedantic, Lockett was never actually adjudged as the best and fairest of the league in any one year. Lockett had his breakout year in 1987 when he kicked 117 goals and tied the Brownlow Medal with John Platten. This puts him in the Top 2. Not quite the outright "best".

The only other time Plugger placed in the Top 10 of the Brownlow was his MVP season in 1991

Dunstall never won the Brownlow Medal, but he finished in the Top 2 in 1992 when the umpires robbed him (145 goals) and awarded it to Scott Wynd. He was definitely a victim of his own lofty reputation by that point, failing to get 3 votes for a 12 goal haul and failing to poll votes when he kicked bags of sixes and sevens. Wynd had an awesome breakout year, but he was also gifted a few dodgy votes.

Dunstall also tied for 2nd place (Top 3) in the 1988 Brownlow, finished equal 3rd (Top 6) in 1989 and tied for 4th place (Top 5) in 1993.

Career Brownlow votes:

• 129 - Dunstall (0.52 votes per H&A game)
• 128 - Lockett (0.47)
• 100 - Ablett (0.43)

If only umpires knew what a god player was.

 

[ZEV]

No! One is clearly streets ahead, flemington straight, miles, easily, etc etc, better than the other.

Plugger, because he gave us the courtesy of not having to listen to shithouse commentary

 

[gavaniacono]

In 2011, Wayne Carey was asked to rate the 5 greatest footballers he'd ever seen.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-as-the-greatest/story-fn8ymmuy-1226085117462

1. Jason Dunstall

"I've always said Jason is the best player I've played against and seen. OK, he was in a very good side and a lot of people will argue with me, but I'm going to stick with him and say he was the best."

2. Tony Lockett

"Purely for dragging people to the footy. You didn't know if he was going to kick 20 goals or get 10 weeks for hitting someone. He was unbelievable."

3. Robert Harvey

"Harvey was certainly the best player of the '90s. We were obviously not a bad side in that time and all we worried about with St Kilda, with 'Plugger' having gone to Sydney, was Robert Harvey. He was just brilliant."

4. Greg Williams

"He was an awesome, awesome player. Loved the way he played, the way he was in and under, fed it to (Gerard) Healy, and everyone else for that matter."

5. Michael Voss

"What he did for the Brisbane Lions ... three-time premiership captain… I think he was an awesome player, similar to mould of Greg Williams and a bit like Rob Harvey."

6. Gary Ablett Sr,

"He was definitely the most freakish player that I saw."

Unlucky/next best: James Hird, Stephen Silvagni, Jonathan Brown, Gary Ablett jr, Chris Judd


[On Gary Ablett jr and Chris Judd]

"[They're] the current players I'd put into my top five or 10 in the future, I think they're only three-quarters through their careers. Judd is the 2000s model of Rob Harvey. What Judd and Ablett are doing now, Harvey did for his whole career - over 300 games. For me, it's all about getting your own ball. I think Robert Harvey and Greg Williams certainly did that and so did Michael Voss."


Carey acknowledged Nathan Buckley as a champion, but was happy to leave him out.

"As good as he was ... I can't remember him with his side two or three goals down and him kicking two or three goals to win the game."

Very interesting and refreshing to see Williams and Harvey mentioned. Particularly Williams. I remember watching him and thinking, will he ever make a mistake? Will he ever miss a target? He was a freak.

 

[gavaniacono]

Brownlow Medal leader boards (1987-1998)

1987
20 Platten, John
20 Lockett, Tony
15 Meldrum, Paul
15 McGuinness, Tony
15 Royal, Brian
14 Tuck, Michael
14 Bradley, Craig
14 Kernahan, Stephen
13 Williams, Greg

1988
20 Healy, Gerard
16 Dunstall, Jason
16 Madden, Simon
15 Hall, Tony
14 Millane, Darren
14 Foster, Peter
14 Kappler, Darren
13 Gleeson, Adrian
13 Mainwaring, Chris
13 McGuinness, Tony
13 Morwood, Shane

1989
22 Couch, Paul
20 Platten, John
16 Dunstall, Jason
16 Winmar, Nicky
16 Watson, Tim
16 Williams, Greg
14 Merrett, Roger
14 Hawke, Paul
13 McKenna, Guy

1990
18 Liberatore, Tony
17 Wright, Graham
16 Silvagni, Stephen
15 Collins, Andrew
15 Bain, David
15 Lovett, Brett
14 McGuinness, Tony
13 Shaw, Tony
13 Anderson, Greg
13 Bewick, Darren

1991
25 Stynes, Jim
20 Turley, Craig
19 Hocking, Garry
18 Matera, Peter
17 Knights, Matthew
17 McLean, Michael
17 Hudson, Paul
16 Lockett, Tony
16 Cloke, David
16 Bourke, Damian

1992
20 Wynd, Scott
18 Dunstall, Jason
17 Hinkley, Ken
16 Loewe, Stewart
14 Carey, Wayne
14 Jarman, Darren
13 Kickett, Derek
12 Harvey, Robert
12 Liberatore, Tony
12 Rehn, Shaun

1993
18 Wanganeen, Gavin
17 Hocking, Garry
17 Williams, Greg
16 Dunstall, Jason
16 Carey, Wayne
14 Buckley, Nathan
14 Cameron, Leon
14 Schwass, Wayne
13 Ablett, Gary
13 Knights, Matthew

1994
30 Williams, Greg
28 Matera, Peter
20 Hocking, Garry
19 Schwass, Wayne
17 Monkhorst, Damian
16 Liberatore, Tony
15 Schwarz, David
15 Carey, Wayne
15 Grant, Chris
14 Platten, John

1995
21 Kelly, Paul
18 Jarman, Darren
17 Hocking, Garry
16 Harvey, Robert
16 Long, Michael
16 Knights, Matthew
16 Couch, Paul
15 Stynes, Jim
14 Carey, Wayne
14 Liberatore, Tony

1996
21 McKernan, Corey*
21 Voss, Michael
21 Hird, James
20 Grant, Chris
20 Burke, Nathan
19 Hocking, Garry
18 Salmon, Paul
17 Charles, Justin
17 Loewe, Stewart
17 McKenna, Guy
17 Harvey, Robert

1997
27 Grant, Chris*
26 Harvey, Robert
21 Kelly, Paul
21 Matera, Peter
18 Burke, Nathan
18 Ricciuto, Mark
16 Sholl, Brad
15 Wills, Andrew
15 Bradley, Craig
13 Jarman, Darren
13 Salmon, Paul

1998
32 Harvey, Robert
24 Buckley, Nathan
23 West, Scott
22 Rehn, Shaun
21 Ricciuto, Mark
20 Viney, Todd
20 Carey, Wayne
18 Knights, Matthew
18 Cousins, Ben
18 Brown, Fraser
16 Crawford, Shane
15 Lockett, Tony
15 Schwass, Wayne

Two names which jumped right out: roger Merrett. Damian monkhurst. Wow.

 

[gavaniacono]

They played in the 80s and 90s mate, neither had a defensive bone in their bodies

You are quite wrong. Dunstall was widely acclaimed for his chasing and tackling. He revolutionised this aspect of being a FF.

 

[MinerBoy]

You and me mate Dermie along with Ayres. Lets just say its rare to get players like that these days

Yeah Ayres hey. All this talk this week of Enright possibly being the greatest back pocket ever.

Ayres was better.

 

[Ricmel]

Yeah Ayres hey. All this talk this week of Enright possibly being the greatest back pocket ever.

Ayres was better.

I would agree. I think Ayres had more to his game than Enright.