Certified Legendary Thread Future of James Aish, for a limited time only! (trolling opposition supporters automatic day off)

[Kappa]

We all know how big a disaster the Go Home 5 were for the Lions at the end of 2013 but last year the majority of the players extended their contracts. Only player who left last year was Crisp in the Beams trade. Let's see what happens this year. Clearly Aish is gone.

Sounds like Stefan Martin is gone too

 

[royboys4eva]

Sounds like Stefan Martin is gone too

Only a rumour right now. Let's wait till it is confirmed. But your saying the Lions have a retention problem? But i am sure you are also saying we don't deserve a priority pick.

 

[dlanod]

They didn't really want to keep O'Rourke, they had to dump some of their initial rookies because their cap sizes has been decreasing every year. Tunbridge was a completely unknown 18 year old from 2011.. you're scraping the barrel there, it's pretty much Adams and Treloar.

first rounders attract far more interest from other clubs early in their careers, which is why they're more likely to leave.

Sorry but you're wrong and the line you're pushing is bullshit. What you're now saying is that "Brisbane's issues are systemic, but only amongst those who attract more interest from other clubs because they have a better draft pedigree"? So players didn't leave because of "systemic issues", but because other clubs are interested in them?

As for the GWS angle, they definitely wanted to keep O'Rourke. Pick 2. Early contract offer to him. Just because he was injured while at GWS doesn't mean they didn't want him. Tunbridge was one of the prelisted players along with the likes of Cameron, Shiel, Treloar and Bugg. They definitely wanted to keep him when he left. Just because players haven't developed as desired doesn't mean the club was discarding them, otherwise you shouldn't be counting Karnezis in any "Go Home 5" discussion. Hell, I'd throw Jaksch and Boyd in there as well - first rounders, both had contract offers put to them, taller players so take longer to develop, but both wanted out.

It's been a problem for years. Any club outside the main AFL states hemorrhage players when they're not winning every week (Sydney during the 90s, GWS, GC and Brisbane recently) but there's also a steady drain the rest of the time as well (the Headlands and potentially Treloars as well). And yet I somehow doubt any measure to ensure these clubs do keep winning every week is going to get over the line amongst said main AFL state clubs. You've obviously got a fantastically biased mindset to think it's limited to Brisbane and come on here to lecture us as to what the problem actually is.

 

[Skoob]

I know it's easy to take offence at Collingwood supporters, coming here to point out shortcomings of our club, but really, everyone here should be well aware that we do (and have had for a long time) have systemic retention issues. This is not news, nor scurrilous lies.

 

[Kappa]

Only a rumour right now. Let's wait till it is confirmed. But your saying the Lions have a retention problem? But i am sure you are also saying we don't deserve a priority pick.

Will a priority pick fix a retention problem?

 

[Bucking Beads]

Will a priority pick fix a retention problem?

Of course it won't. The priority pick is needed to replace all the top end talent that gets pinched off us for nothing

 

[royboys4eva]

Will a priority pick fix a retention problem?

No i think other areas need to be looked at. Such as a retention allowance seeing as our club is made up of majority of players from other states outside of Queensland. But of course as soon as we are given any extra funding the likes of fat head Eddie will be screaming.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Hilarious that Collingwood supporters railed for years against our retention allowance, saying that there is no retention issue, it's just AFL sponsored flags etc.

Then when a priority pick is put on the table, suddenly they decide the AFL need to do something about a "retention issue".

Cute!

 

[Bucking Beads]

Why is 1 pick in the draft such a big deal? We've lost a pick 5, 8,12 in recent seasons for bugger all and could lose a pick 4 and 7 this year.

 

[dlanod]

I know it's easy to take offence at Collingwood supporters, coming here to point out shortcomings of our club, but really, everyone here should be well aware that we do (and have had for a long time) have systemic retention issues. This is not news, nor scurrilous lies.

Saying that "we" have systemic retention issues misaligns the root issue IMO. Ultimately it affects any northern club that isn't winning. In the 90s that was the Swans, who lost half a dozen great players in that time. In the last decade it's been us, and over the last few years the expansion clubs as well. Looking in our own backyard is great, but if the problem is in all the neighbour's backyards as well it seems a bit shortsighted to think that weeding our's is going do a whole lot.

 

[captainrich]

if it was such a sole Brisbane problem why did we manage to sign to extended contracts 4 of the players we got as a replacement (5th being jackson paine who will be delisted due to injury issues)

 

[jackess]

Do we have to engage with morons?

 

[Judge]

Do we have to engage with morons?

Nah mate, we don't.

But the rest of us kinda like to humour you.........

 

[jackess]

Nah mate, we don't.

But the rest of us kinda like to humour you.........

 

[matwt73]

Will a priority pick fix a retention problem?

no. But a retention allowance might have helped.

I'm with Skoob, clearly we have a retention problem. The question is what do we (the lions and the AFL) do about it.

If we don't want to go back to retention allowances then we need to look at

- three year contracts
- family and player travel allowances not included in the cap
- academy support

 

[dlanod]

Do we have to engage with morons?

What are you suggesting about my fiancee?

 

[dlanod]

For future reference, take any Aish trade hypotheticals (rather than general discussion) to the new thread.

 

[knaf]

A priority pick at the end of the first round would just about ensure we can select all the Queenslanders we are interested in from the academy. We should be able to retain these kids. We will therefore have a stronger more stable list and hopefully win more games. Winning more games helps with retention of players from other States.

Therefore priority pick helps with retention. Corresponding with feral trolls doesn't.

 

[knaf]

For future reference, take any Aish trade hypotheticals (rather than general discussion) to the new thread.

sorry Dlanod hit post before I saw your post. good call btw. I forgot this wasnt the priority pick discussion

 

[Skoob]

Saying that "we" have systemic retention issues misaligns the root issue IMO. Ultimately it affects any northern club that isn't winning. In the 90s that was the Swans, who lost half a dozen great players in that time. In the last decade it's been us, and over the last few years the expansion clubs as well. Looking in our own backyard is great, but if the problem is in all the neighbour's backyards as well it seems a bit shortsighted to think that weeding our's is going do a whole lot.

Not saying all our retention issues are systemic, but there has been plenty of discussion about player welfare/culture over the last half dozen years. Sure, success has been a problem as well geography, but can't deny that the club facilities and staff including management & board have all been factors.
A lot of that has and is being changed, but still some way to go. There is a good reason many are excited to get the Lamberts back.

 

[Matt_BL]

The thing with the Martin trade is we don't really need to care about why; because he's in contract and only signed on about this time last year. Might be a Patfull type scenario, we got Christensen for Patfull basically so you'd want a similar deal, if not he'll be at Brisbane next season.

Leuenberger - RFA so worst case we can match the other clubs offer if need be. If not he'll either sign on or we will get a decent pick for compensation.

Aish is the only real issue because he's out of contract, and if he goes to Cartlton our position of negotiation will really depend on this weeks result. We're in a stronger postion than we have been in the past with speculation on a our players so I think we'd look to setup picks for our academy players and bank some picks for next year.

 

[Bucking Beads]

So from what I can gather Aish wants to play in Melbourne for a big club because the girls will notice him more? Good luck James. Thanks for your limited service to out club. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[notliondown]

Somehow like most BF discussions there's a line being drawn here and you are either one side or the other...

Like dlanod I think that this issue is way bigger than just us... the frontier clubs simply don't appeal to some players - particularly A grade quality players - who see the bright lights and theater, the media, and general fawning and oohing and aahing that players receive in Melbourne in particular, but footy states in general.

Frontier clubs could have all the best systems, facilities and staff in the world but if a player feels he's missing attention and the spotlight there is zero that can be done to hold them away from that circus. Its particularly true for high end talent who have been in that spotlight their whole lives.

For us, add to that a lack of success, resources and facilities and our job becomes even harder than the rest. Our situation is exacerbated because we are the worst of a "bad" bunch off the field.

But are those things systemic? How do you define that?

Is losing systemic? Players will more likely stay if we are winning regardless of the rest. Its a trickle down effect really... win and the tolerance for other stuff is high. Lose and lose often and everything becomes an issue. And to be honest, I'm not sure even a retention allowance and extra salary changes that for some.

I think we have issues off the field in the sense that it may be time to revisit certain areas and methods. Things that to the outside world at least, that haven't seemed to change - and the footy department review is probably just that.

People argue about our welfare and fitness areas - fine lets review them. If we can improve them do it. If things are wrong and have been wrong for long periods then yes its systemic. But if things aren't genuinely "faulty" then its hard to argue any change would see a higher retention rate.

Systemic implies, to me at least, things are horribly out of step with best practice and that we willingly ignore the issue, when I can't really see that being the case to any major extent. This issue like all others is a myriad of things all combining to create a perfect storm - for us anyway.

If Aish or Martin or whoever goes, and it gives us the ability to draft players, then our priority has to be picking a player who wants to be part of this club and the inherent "disadvantages" that brings.

Maybe our systemic failure is simply picking "the best talent available" like we have instead of being way more selective with our first round draft picks.

 

[Eons]

We're an easy target for lazy journalists all over Australia. People lap it up because of the go home 5.

In reality, since Leppa has been at the helm we have done well at the trade table. Patfull for Christensen, Beams for 5, 25 and Crisp, Robbo as a delisted free agent are all wins for the club. This could all be based on Kerr leaving too.

 

[matwt73]

Systemic implies, to me at least, things are horribly out of step with best practice and that we willingly ignore the issue, when I can't really see that being the case to any major extent. This issue like all others is a myriad of things all combining to create a perfect storm - for us anyway.

That's not how I see it.

My use of Systemic, includes the pressures of being a frontier club which dlanod refers to. I use it to suggest that the issues, are broader than just what an individual is doing and broader than just what the club is doing.

As a result of the drafting, trade, free agency, and player movement Systems which exist within the AFL, and as a result of the way we have responded or failed to respond to those, we have had recent difficulty in keeping players. Responsibility goes all the way up the AFL ladder on this. A lot rests on us too but The fact is that best practice for us may be very different to what constitutes best practice for Collingwood, or Sydney or Port.

Does best practice for us, include flying players girlfriends up three times a year and hosting a women of the pride function so they feel welcome? Or does it mean not flying girlfriends up at all so the relationship breaks down and our young stars have to find a QLD partner to look stylish on their arm come brownlow night?

Does best practice involve, only drafting local players so that they can spend time with their parents every other day, or does it onvolve only drafting players who we assess as not needing mum and dad around?

Does it involve having fantastic facilities, but in a less accessible area, so that the players feel like they are in a state of the art football program? or lesser facilities closer to the city so the players feel their lifestyle needs are met?

How do we assess?

Are their perhaps as many answers as their are players, and how do wour systems deal with that?