Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[cynical]

Who should Kolo have replaced earlier ?

when Rivers was injured at the start of the year Kolo had good form they brought Rivers back from injury instead of giving Kolo a shot

 

[Partridge]

Wait, what? He didn't seriously say that, did he?

Broadly speaking, I'm nowhere near as critical of Scott as others are here, but that's an absolutely astounding comment by CS if true.

If Scott isn't sure how to judge Johnson's game, I am. Johnson drives me nuts at times, and to me he can be criticised for poor performances as much as anyone (and I believe everyone can), but he was very good last night. Even his goalsquare howler really didn't affect the result (I think we were 12 points behind when that occurred in the second quarter; at one point in the third we were 13 points up).

It was nice to hear the commentators point out that Johnson works hard during a game; it's only been the basis of his career for a decade.

 

[ATSAM]

Well said year of the cat. Scott has that behaviour of I really know what I am doing even though the results are showing he hasn't got a clue. If he did single out Johnson then he is a fool.
The coaches sit up high with a view of the game unfolding they have their data and stats and any number of inputs from coaches and of course they have their magnetic board(or is that used for who is going to order the pizza) which is glaringly magnified at huddles. They decide the game plan, they name and punish players who stray from it yet can't seem to make a positive or constructive decision to save themselves eg change the game plan, throw players around , bring them into the game. And for this set of coaches don't put Bartel on the back line!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

It was the opinion of most non Geelong supporters as well as around half the posters on this board at the time .At the very least Scott took over an old side that was 81 points behind a younger Collingwood early in the 3rd quarter of a prelim final , that than went on to lose the best player in the comp. To win the Grand final next year was a remarkable effort .Please all Scott hatters watch this video .

A few on this board talk about how we had such a great list , like I already said we couldn't even make the grand final the year before. The reality is that nearly every premiership side has one of the best 2 lists in the comp . No coach ever coaches a premiership without outstanding players.

It took Thompson 10 years to win his 2nd premiership ,even the mighty Clarkson took 9 years.

We have gone backwards but we were always destined to go backward given the players we have lost as well as the players who age has taken a toll on .It takes time to build a premiership side , if things go well in the trade period this year and we start to get a better run with injuries than we are heading on the right path.

Again, I'm not everyone else. So don't bring it up the same shitty argument like it's facts. Also you keep bringing up the past, I'm talking future..

There is nothing in your posts that tell me why Scott is the man to lead us back up the ladder. You're just bringing up the past like it was last year. We have been poor in a lot of areas that matter for a long time and it's concerning we don't fix it.

Injuries, retirements all of those are things that ANY coach would have gone through with us. Yes he got us a flag, no one is deny that... BUT I"M TALKING NOW AND FUTURE. I have not judged Scott in this thread until last night, because now I share the concerns about our future and I question if Scott is the right man for the job.

 

[afl genius]

I'm the biggest critic of his coaching and had a thread shutdown previously as there were some precious souls who couldn't handle the truth, but now is the time to put forward a valid reason as to why he should remain as coach... I can't.

1. Bartel as a player with the onus of kicking in after a behind... ok, he struggled. Thurlow the best kick in the side took one kick in from what I witnessed, resulting in a goal, yet Bartel continues to take the kick outs... go figure... why is he even in defense considering how critical we were a mere 2 years ago when he was in the back half.

2. Walker... I'm better... simple.

3. handball. Yep we handball at every opportunity... when we kick the ball long we score. Scott obviously can't see it.

4. Hawkins. Simply doesn't lead, nor does he chase.

5. Tackels - poor.

6. Scott. 'I'm confident our best is good enough.' Well Scott, how about refrain from the arrogance and start to coach.

7. Menzel. - If it's a gut feel that he won't cope with the rigors of AFL, why did you rest him from all forms of footy... what does that actually prove? Do you want him to prove himself at training in match simulation... spare me. You played Vardy after not playing for an eternity and after 4 VFL games.

8. How easy do the opposition score from one of our behinds... we simply aren't able to counter against it.

9. Forget Dangerfield, forget Henderson and forget Selwood... without a decent ruck we're going nowhere.

I'll leave number 10 up to those deluded.

There are plenty more.... Johnson being allowed to dilly dally with the ball is one.

On the money with this post, a few of those aren't really the coaches fault though. One thing that Scott constantly uses is the loose man in defense. This basically nullifies our game plan of kick it to hawk one on one where he can beat anyone, instead a loose gets across wins the ball and as Hawk has no pace the easiest rebound of all time occurs. Time and time again Scott goes with it, for this reason alone no one can think Scotts a good coach. Not a terrible coach but certainly not a great coach.

 

[Partridge]

Well said year of the cat. Scott has that behaviour of I really know what I am doing even though the results are showing he hasn't got a clue. If he did single out Johnson then he is a fool.
The coaches sit up high with a view of the game unfolding they have their data and stats and any number of inputs from coaches and of course they have their magnetic board(or is that used for who is going to order the pizza) which is glaringly magnified at huddles. They decide the game plan, they name and punish players who stray from it yet can't seem to make a positive or constructive decision to save themselves eg change the game plan, throw players around , bring them into the game. And for this set of coaches don't put Bartel on the back line!!!!!!!!!

You would think watching him cost us a goal in the tail end of a Preliminary final - which we then lost by less than a kick - would have influenced their thinking. Apparently not.

 

[Partridge]

Again, I'm not everyone else. So don't bring it up the same shitty argument like it's facts. Also you keep bringing up the past, I'm talking future..

There is nothing in your posts that tell me why Scott is the man to lead us back up the ladder. You're just bringing up the past like it was last year. We have been poor in a lot of areas that matter for a long time and it's concerning we don't fix it.

Injuries, retirements all of those are things that ANY coach would have gone through with us. Yes he got us a flag, no one is deny that... BUT I"M TALKING NOW AND FUTURE. I have not judged Scott in this thread until last night, because now I share the concerns about our future and I question if Scott is the right man for the job.

Top post. Agree entirely with the final paragraph.

 

[Bobby_]

You would think watching him cost us a goal in the tail end of a Preliminary final - which we then lost by less than a kick - would have influenced their thinking. Apparently not.

hasn't Scott stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't like to pay much attention to past results as the personnel changes etc.
If that's the case, we probably don't learn from mistakes.

 

[Partridge]

hasn't Scott stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't like to pay much attention to past results as the personnel changes etc.
If that's the case, we probably don't learn from mistakes.

I remember Thompson being asked about the 2008 Grand Final in early 2009, and his response was along the lines of "I was pretty sure where we went wrong, but after going back and reviewing the game now we know for sure". They duly won the pre-season competition, then beat Hawthorn in Round 1, and of course won another premiership.

I would hope every single coach would analyse every minute of our games. Particularly those we don't win.

 

[Seeds]

Y

Johnson was very very good for 95% of the game. But the other 5% involved blowing a certain goal with the most arrogant display of lairising he's ever displayed (he's certainly got competition) and putting Bartel under pressure with a hospital handball in the final 90 seconds which directly led to a turnover and St Kilda drawing level.

yep instead of being a 5 goal clear best on ground he went to just being one of our best players as a result of those two big stuff ups. Although It wasn't a hospitable handball to Bartel, but it was a bad decision as it forced Bartel to bomb it. For Scott to single him out and say he wasn't sure if he was even any good though is really poor judgement and that's even if it was true.

 

[Seeds]

hasn't Scott stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't like to pay much attention to past results as the personnel changes etc.
If that's the case, we probably don't learn from mistakes.

Probably explains why Bartel is still in defence after the 2013 prelim which was a disaster for bartel.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Again, I'm not everyone else. So don't bring it up the same shitty argument like it's facts. Also you keep bringing up the past, I'm talking future..

There is nothing in your posts that tell me why Scott is the man to lead us back up the ladder. You're just bringing up the past like it was last year. We have been poor in a lot of areas that matter for a long time and it's concerning we don't fix it.

Injuries, retirements all of those are things that ANY coach would have gone through with us. Yes he got us a flag, no one is deny that... BUT I"M TALKING NOW AND FUTURE. I have not judged Scott in this thread until last night, because now I share the concerns about our future and I question if Scott is the right man for the job.

Your post is illogical and extremely contradicting

1. "don't bring it up the same shitty argument like it's facts"- it is a fact that we were 81 points behind early in the 3rd quarter of a prelim final with an old side that then went on to the lose the best player in the game.

2. "Also you keep bringing up the past, I'm talking future.." - the makeup of a clubs list isn't based around decisions made over the previous 12 months but rather decisions made over the previous 10 years .For example our 2007-2011 premierships sides for the most part was based around decision made from 1999-2002.Conversly we are still feeling the impact of all those players we have lost over the past 5 years and being denied early draft picks for longer than any other club .

3. "There is nothing in your posts that tell me why Scott is the man to lead us back up the ladder" The problem is your judging Scott and our side though the wrong lens. I suspect that the only evidence that your willing to except for Scott being the right man to coach us is evidence that suggest we are currently performing like a top 4 side .We are not a top 4 side , we are a 5th-8th side in transition who has been hit hard with injuries and been given a tough draw.

Most Geelong supporters can except that we are not a premiership contender but struggle to except the consequences of this .For example they get upset when we lose to sides who we should beat , they get upset when they see players playing in positions they are not idealy suited to , they get upset over players being selected who don't seem to be up to the required standard and they get upset when they see a pattern of mistakes. These are all common symptoms of a side who is in transition/rebuilding .

4.With regards to your last paragraph I am also about the future , I strongly believe we are heading in the right direction .The reasons why you are not optimistic is because you are judging us though the lens of a side who is contending for a premiership rather than a side who is in a transition/rebuild stage.

 

[year of the cat]

Y

yep instead of being a 5 goal clear best on ground he went to just being one of our best players as a result of those two big stuff ups. Although It wasn't a hospitable handball to Bartel, but it was a bad decision as it forced Bartel to bomb it. For Scott to single him out and say he wasn't sure if he was even any good though is really poor judgement and that's even if it was true.

Definitely not a hospitable hand pass ;-)

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Your post is illogical and extremely contradicting

1. "don't bring it up the same shitty argument like it's facts"- it is a fact that we were 81 points behind early in the 3rd quarter of a prelim final with an old side that then went on to the lose the best player in the game.



2. "Also you keep bringing up the past, I'm talking future.." - the makeup of a clubs list isn't based around decisions made over the previous 12 months but rather decisions made over the previous 10 years .For example our 2007-2011 premierships sides for the most part was based around decision made from 1999-2002.Conversly we are still feeling the impact of all those players we have lost over the past 5 years and being denied early draft picks for longer than any other club .



3. "There is nothing in your posts that tell me why Scott is the man to lead us back up the ladder" The problem is your judging Scott and our side though the wrong lens. I suspect that the only evidence that your willing to except for Scott being the right man to coach us is evidence that suggest we are currently performing like a top 4 side .We are not a top 4 side , we are a 5th-8th side in transition who has been hit hard with injuries and been given a tough draw.

Most Geelong supporters can except that we are not a premiership contender but struggle to except the consequences of this .For example they get upset when we lose to sides who we should beat , they get upset when they see players playing in positions they are not ideal suited to , they get upset over players being selected who don't seem to be up to the required standard and they get upset when they see a pattern of mistakes. These are all common symptoms of a side who is in transition/rebuilding .

4.With regards to your last paragraph I am also about the future , I strongly believe we are heading in the right direction .The reasons why you are not optimistic is because you are judging us though the lens of a side who is contending for a premiership rather than a side who is in a transition/rebuild stage.

My concern is not about the results, it's about how we're playing the game and how the list has been managed.. capisce?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

My concern is not about the results, it's about how we're playing the game and how the list has been managed.. capisce?

see you seem to fall into that group of poster who are ok with us being in a rebuild/transition stage but cant except the consequences of this .When your a side in transition the following happens

-you don't have the players to play a perfect game plan
-you don't have the players to do well in every aspect of the game
-you don't have the players to perform well consistently
-you don't have the players to cover all 18 positions to a high standard

Nearly all sides when they decline drop towards the bottom of the ladder for a number of years , the fact that 9th is so far as low as we have gone suggest to me that the list management has been excellent. Not saying we haven't made some recruiting mistakes but no club is ever had or ever will have a %100 perfect strike rate with recruits. The big test with regards to our list management is coming at the end of the year.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

see you seem to fall into that group of poster who are ok with us being in a rebuild/transition stage but cant except the consequences of this .When your a side in transition the following happens

-you don't have the players to play a perfect game plan
-you don't have the players to do well in every aspect of the game
-you don't have the players to perform well consistently
-you don't have the players to cover all 18 positions to a high standard

Nearly all sides when they decline drop towards the bottom of the ladder for a number of years , the fact that 9th is so far as low as we have gone suggest to me that the list management has been excellent. Not saying we haven't made some recruiting mistakes but no club is ever had or ever will have a %100 perfect strike rate with recruits. The big test with regards to our list management is coming at the end of the year.

See there you're making assumptions again and painting with a brush. Take off the blinkers and you might get a proper discussion.

 

[Partridge]

see you seem to fall into that group of poster who are ok with us being in a rebuild/transition stage but cant except the consequences of this .When your a side in transition the following happens

I'm absolutely fine with us being in transition, and as someone who expected anywhere between about 6th-10th as a finish, where we are is not unreasonable either. There will be another interesting season or two ahead as well. Should be good.

Out of curiosity, as one of the more optimistic posters, did you predict us to be where we currently are, or did you have us finishing top 4 (or higher)?

 

[Seeds]

Watching nth and Adelaide play like they are trying to make finals these past couple of weeks has made me realise how pathetic our club is at the moment. We show no care or interest for big games. Havnt for three years. Whether that's Scott fault or not doesn't matter. Things need to change. The club needs a massive review as it did in 2006. We are simply pathetic at the moment. A laughing stock of the competition.

 

[Seeds]

Definitely not a hospitable hand pass ;-)

Dumb autocorrect of the iPad. I hate autocorrect with a passion.

 

[doncaster_dave]

Just a little tidbit...had a cats player marry into the extended family...he said he wasn't to kick the football and to handpass as much as he could...for a guy who could kick 50m albeit without a completely smooth style, this was silly...especially when he'd take a mark on the centre and instead of looking downfield for the best option, looked backwards for runners and often handpassed to them under pressure...also mentioned that the (relentless) kicking to the top of the goal square from a couple of years ago was a directive from the coaching staff...so while we think players do stupid things, it sometimes is because they are doing what they are told...
I have an opinion on Chris Scott, but our ball skills have been so bad, it wouldn't matter what we did...we can't hit targets when it counts by hand or foot...that goes for shots on goal too

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm absolutely fine with us being in transition, and as someone who expected anywhere between about 6th-10th as a finish, where we are is not unreasonable either. There will be another interesting season or two ahead as well. Should be good.

Out of curiosity, as one of the more optimistic posters, did you predict us to be where we currently are, or did you have us finishing top 4 (or higher)?

I agree that we have an interesting few years ahead , we will be in a better position to judge Scott and our list management in 2 years time.

I did predict a top 4 finish , however that was on the condition that we had good run with injuries .Having Duncan,Clark and Stanley fit would make a massive difference.

Regardless of any predictions I also understand that we cant stay up forever and we have been up for longer than any other club , it had to come to an end at some point .

 

[manboob]

I don't think that Scott is the problem it's the lack of support staff. At the end of 2011 we lost McCartney and Sanderson and shit...

 

[fpm84]

Watching nth and Adelaide play like they are trying to make finals these past couple of weeks has made me realise how pathetic our club is at the moment. We show no care or interest for big games. Havnt for three years. Whether that's Scott fault or not doesn't matter. Things need to change. The club needs a massive review as it did in 2006. We are simply pathetic at the moment. A laughing stock of the competition.

I dunno. The Swans game two weeks ago was pretty big. We did alright, didn't we?

 

[thejester]

Watching nth and Adelaide play like they are trying to make finals these past couple of weeks has made me realise how pathetic our club is at the moment. We show no care or interest for big games. Havnt for three years. Whether that's Scott fault or not doesn't matter. Things need to change. The club needs a massive review as it did in 2006. We are simply pathetic at the moment. A laughing stock of the competition.

The only way this post makes any sense is if you retrospectively describe any game we lost as a 'big game' and assume that any loss must be a product of 'not caring'. It's garbage. We drew last night because of identifiable flaws in personnel, structure and execution (many of which are the fault/responsibility of the coach!), not some amorphous lack of care.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I hate him this week.