Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[you pick one]

Yep, Scott keeps deflecting to the list. The old players have been used as scape goats and even though they are falling away they were hardly our main problem. It's the players in the peak age bracket who aren't stepping up.

To me it's the high energy game plan this bloke has put in place and the majority of our list either don't have the preseasons to carry it out all game or all year and the other side of the coin is the to many preseasons players who suffer the same problem.

 

[Seeds]

To me it's the high energy game plan this bloke has put in place and the majority of our list either don't have the preseasons to carry it out all game or all year and the other side of the coin is the to many preseasons players who suffer the same problem.

This may be a point worth examining.

 

[Bobby_]

To me it's the high energy game plan this bloke has put in place and the majority of our list either don't have the preseasons to carry it out all game or all year and the other side of the coin is the to many preseasons players who suffer the same problem.

his forward half setup is atrocious! I mean dead set the worst in the whole competition. You would even bracket our forward line in the same class as a VFL top side.
Scott was a defender first and foremost so it's perhaps of no surprise he clearly lacks creativity trying to orchestrate some kind of forward line that functions properly.

There is never any switching made during a game apart from a big forward subbed out and Hawkins left one out in the square with Taylor pushing forwards at times.
Time and time again we often have worst of our smalls left around the feet of Hawkins (Stokes). You look at Hawthorn and they always have Puopolo and Breust at the base of the packs literally every single time.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

even the most hardened scott fan would be concerned

Last night was concerning and yes I have backed Scott up until now. If he doesn't arrest our slide in 2016 then I'll far less inclined to defend him.

The structures last night were off and that falls onto the coach. Our kicking skills were equally atrocious and that falls on the players. They're not that bad at kicking all season.

 

[Baudolino]

It's his one move.

Over, and over again.

Seriously? No one's going to call out the ridiculousness of this statement?

If anyone wants to say that they have literally only ever see one in-game tactical move made by Chris Scott, then feel free to do so, but do so in the knowledge that it says far more about your own powers of observation and ability to process and analyse what is happening on the field of play than it does about anything else.

 

[Seeds]

his forward half setup is atrocious! I mean dead set the worst in the whole competition. You would even bracket our forward line in the same class as a VFL top side.
Scott was a defender first and foremost so it's perhaps of no surprise he clearly lacks creativity trying to orchestrate some kind of forward line that functions properly.

There is never any switching made during a game apart from a big forward subbed out and Hawkins left one out in the square with Taylor pushing forwards at times.

We also never set up to provide targets to chip to 40 out from goal. Hawks have made an art form out of this. It's boring to watch but it wins games. When we go in we are always kicking to a pack hoping for a contested mark. Always the same ploy.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Under Bomber Thompson, Bomber would not have let Taylor Hunt and Travis Varcoe go. Bomber was a huge believer in developing the players on your list. He knew youngsters would have their 2nd to 3rd year blues and they have to hang in there and they will turn the corner.

There wasn't much of that on display in Thompson's last year with Geelong. The promising youngsters (Hunt was looking like the best of the lot at the time) were left out of the finals, in favour of a bunch of older players that were in horrendous form.

Regardless of what Varcoe has done since his move to Collingwood, trading him wasn't just the right option; it was the only option. Scott was incredibly, outrageously patient with him. If he couldn't snap out of his post-injury funk in two years, he was never going to at Geelong, in my opinion.

Taylor Hunt has played every game for Richmond, one of twelve to do so, and two others have played 19/20. Pretty fortunate for a team that is widely acknowledged to be poor, outside its top eight or so players. And Christensen was significantly better in his last relatively injury free season at Geelong than he has been this year. If anything, I'd say he's been moderately disappointing for the Lions this year.

 

[you pick one]

his forward half setup is atrocious! I mean dead set the worst in the whole competition. You would even bracket our forward line in the same class as a VFL top side.
Scott was a defender first and foremost so it's perhaps of no surprise he clearly lacks creativity trying to orchestrate some kind of forward line that functions properly.

There is never any switching made during a game apart from a big forward subbed out and Hawkins left one out in the square with Taylor pushing forwards at times.
Time and time again we often have worst of our smalls left around the feet of Hawkins (Stokes). You look at Hawthorn and they always have Puopolo and Breust at the base of the packs literally every single time.

How many times do you see us on the fast break off half back look up and there isn't a soul to be see and have to retreat.

 

[Bobby_]

We also never set up to provide targets to chip to 40 out from goal. Hawks have made an art form out of this. It's boring to watch but it wins games. When we go in we are always kicking to a pack hoping for a contested mark. Always the same ploy.

How many times do you see us on the fast break off half back look up and there isn't a soul to be see and have to retreat.

I thought we had a good setup at various times in season 2013. We sort of had Podsiadly push high up to the forward fifty logo and Murdoch remained forward of center on most occasions (forget drifting through the midfield).
Hawkins was deep in the square. This saw Podsiadly and Murdoch provide all the defensive chasing and both were causing a lot turnovers as Pods was very agile. He wasn't like Clark, Walker or Vardy, he was more of a Jack Darling sized forward and that caught a lot of defenders off guard.
Today, we are either too top heavy or we simply have not enough talls at all. There is very little in-between.

Perhaps with Menzel back, this all changes but I feel we still need to get another shorter sized forward amongst them. Kersten could be the bloke. He's about 192cm and built like Podsiadly. If he can have a solid preseason and begin building early on next year, with Menzel back in the team, the days of just Hawkins and Stokes receiving the high ball may be a thing of the past.
It also illustrates to me why Johnson will become more of a burden than an asset if he remains with us. Slow, ill-disciplined and far too unpredictable.

 

[kidkenobi]

I haven't read most of this thread cos I can't be bothered, but I really think the club and the list is in good shape and I'm not sure what people expect Scott to really be achieving at this point. 2 years ago half out team didn't exist in any discussion about a real Geelong best 22. This year we saw Kolo, Thurlow, Lang, Gregson, Cocky, Bews all show they can be top 22 players, we've seen Duncan, Blicavs, Murdoch (kinda), Guthrie, Caddy (kinda - I also believe Horlin-Smith will cement his spot next year) all improve from being somewhat carried to now actually doing most of the heavy lifting. We've seen guys like Clark and Stanley who will significantly improve our team when fit and hopefully we'll have Menzel and Vardy to do so also. With any of Danger, Henderson, SSelwood - that's a pretty decent list with good depth for a transitioning side.

Considering all the new names and instability of the team and trying to get a consistent 22, I think this is the 'messy' year we needed to have. Next year will be the real start of the building as a new team and then we can judge how well Scotty is going. Coaching isn't jut about gameday, it's guiding the team through the sea of drafts, retirements, trades, free agency, etc. and I think he's doing a good job. He's also still young and learning and getting better himself. I think our young team relate with him well and I doubt anyone could be doing a much better job in the same position

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I haven't read most of this thread cos I can't be bothered, but I really think the club and the list is in good shape and I'm not sure what people expect Scott to really be achieving at this point. 2 years ago half out team didn't exist in any discussion about a real Geelong best 22. This year we saw Kolo, Thurlow, Lang, Gregson, Cocky, Bews all show they can be top 22 players, we've seen Duncan, Blicavs, Murdoch (kinda), Guthrie, Caddy (kinda - I also believe Horlin-Smith will cement his spot next year) all improve from being somewhat carried to now actually doing most of the heavy lifting. We've seen guys like Clark and Stanley who will significantly improve our team when fit and hopefully we'll have Menzel and Vardy to do so also. With any of Danger, Henderson, SSelwood - that's a pretty decent list with good depth for a transitioning side.

Considering all the new names and instability of the team and trying to get a consistent 22, I think this is the 'messy' year we needed to have. Next year will be the real start of the building as a new team and then we can judge how well Scotty is going. Coaching isn't jut about gameday, it's guiding the team through the sea of drafts, retirements, trades, free agency, etc. and I think he's doing a good job. He's also still young and learning and getting better himself. I think our young team relate with him well and I doubt anyone could be doing a much better job in the same position

He's had roughly twice the tenure at this club that most coaches are afforded at a club. I don't think his age is either here or there, because if you fail in your first chance as an AFL coach, you will be very long odds to get another go (take guys like Ratten and Voss as examples).

As for the team relating to him, I can cop the recent loss to Hawthorn, but when you have everything to play for in the context of the season and in terms of individual players and dish up what we did against Melbourne (Enright's 300th, a win would have taken us to fifth or sixth on the ladder), St Kilda (Vardy's comeback, a win would have meant North needed to win two of its last three to be guaranteed of finals) and Collingwood (Menzel's comeback, a virtual final for us)...three teams that didn't have anywhere near the same level motivation as we should have had to win, that is a massive red flag.

Most, if not all, of our games in recent months have been important, due to our awful start to the season. But recently, we seem to play better against teams that also would be highly motivated to win (GWS, Bulldogs, Sydney, Hawthorn to an extent) than we do against teams that are just grinding towards the inevitable end of their seasons. What does that say about the coach's ability to motivate his players?

 

[Seeds]

I thought we had a good setup at various times in season 2013. We sort of had Podsiadly push high up to the forward fifty logo and Murdoch remained forward of center on most occasions (forget drifting through the midfield).
Hawkins was deep in the square. This saw Podsiadly and Murdoch provide all the defensive chasing and both were causing a lot turnovers as Pods was very agile. He wasn't like Clark, Walker or Vardy, he was more of a Jack Darling sized forward and that caught a lot of defenders off guard.
Today, we are either too top heavy or we simply have not enough talls at all. There is very little in-between.

Perhaps with Menzel back, this all changes but I feel we still need to get another shorter sized forward amongst them. Kersten could be the bloke. He's about 192cm and built like Podsiadly. If he can have a solid preseason and begin building early on next year, with Menzel back in the team, the days of just Hawkins and Stokes receiving the high ball may be a thing of the past.
It also illustrates to me why Johnson will become more of a burden than an asset if he remains with us. Slow, ill-disciplined and far too unpredictable.

We Definately need more marking avenues. During our peak we had mooney, the second key forward, chapman and Johnson who all were dangerous in the air. Menzel helps with that massively but we need a fourth.

 

[Seeds]

The other problem with our forward line is our defensive set up. We just let teams waltz the ball out from a kick in. It staggers me why we let them do that and prefer to try and steal the ball back on our half back line.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

The other problem with our forward line is our defensive set up. We just let teams waltz the ball out from a kick in. It staggers me why we let them do that and prefer to try and steal the ball back on our half back line.

We don't "let" them.
Our game is about locking the ball inside our forward half, which is why during the middle of the year period when Duncan and Caddy were playing we were one of the best at the forward press.
It's broken down in recent weeks (again? was pretty crap early in the year too).

 

[The Governor]

Yep, Scott keeps deflecting to the list. The old players have been used as scape goats and even though they are falling away they were hardly our main problem. It's the players in the peak age bracket who aren't stepping up.

People should realise that he has hired a bunch of dud assistant coaches to develop the youngsters on the list. No AFL club would give Matthew Knights a second chance!

 

[rocker_oz33]

Yup our forward like sucks balls.
I think if we had of drafted/traded for good mids.
The likes of SJ and Stokes could of stayed has forwards instead of stealing those to play in the mids.

 

[Teriyakicat]

People should realise that he has hired a bunch of dud assistant coaches to develop the youngsters on the list. No AFL club would give Matthew Knights a second chance!

Knights? The bloke who coached a club to a winning VFL GF in his first year at the GFC?

 

[Teriyakicat]

Yep, Scott keeps deflecting to the list. The old players have been used as scape goats and even though they are falling away they were hardly our main problem. It's the players in the peak age bracket who aren't stepping up.

you mean the three of them?

 

[rocker_oz33]

Anywoo i hope we draft and trade well on and off the field
Last draft looks to be good.
And Lang and Kolo doing well.

 

[iameviljez]

People should realise that he has hired a bunch of dud assistant coaches to develop the youngsters on the list. No AFL club would give Matthew Knights a second chance!

I strongly, strongly disagree. Essendon people hated Knights and gave him a bad wrap because he wasn't seen as an "Essendon person", and therefore didn't fit the culture of arrogance that has seen Essendon's undoing. He took a side which, under Sheedy, had 3 wins in 2006 and 10 in 2007, and took them to seasons of 8 wins, 10.5 wins and 7 wins. More to the point, he oversaw the turnaround of a list that was ageing rapidly and moved the club away from reliance on the 2000 veterans - particularly Lloyd and Lucas. He didn't deserve the crap he copped from that club, and quite frankly was never given a chance.

He's been very highly spoken of within Geelong. He's overseen development of the VFL team, and took them to back-to-back Grand Finals, including a flag. He's also a highly credentialled assistant coach.

Being sacked as an AFL coach isn't the end of anyone's coaching career. Voss is currently at Port, Ratten at Hawthorn, etc etc.

Given the lack of exposure that we have to assistant coaching staff, I suggest that a lot of blaming assistant coaches is done by hypothesis rather than investigation.

 

[iameviljez]

you mean the three of them?

Four. Dawson!

 

[Biggy_Boy]

And when has Taylor last done anything as a forward. Not for three years.

Never, really. I remember that when we were pretty good, we did it a few times against some weak sides, and he kicked some goals. I recall him kicking a bag on either GWS or the Bulldogs. But that doesn't mean it's a good move; it just emphasized how good the rest of the side was and how bad the defensive lines of the sides we were facing were. I can't recall it ever making much of a difference against top sides or when we've needed something to change to get back in the game. It does, however, rob us of our best tall defender (though that tag hasn't really rung as true this year). It's very much a robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario, but along the way we lose a whole bunch of what we gained from Peter and wind up giving Paul a pittance.

 

[Vdubs]

I keep saying this, and people refuse to acknowledge it. We did not have zero ruckman. We had a fully fit Trent West watching from the stands. At the time Vardy and Blicavs were gleefully and joyously proclaimed to be far superior too. Interestingly, there was only game in the last 2 months of the season where we actually won the hitouts, centre clearances and overall clearances. Rounds 23 v Brisbane - when West played. It's a salient fact never, ever acknowledged. He wasn't a great ruckman, like Vardy and Blicavs probably far better suited to being a backup. But he was our best bet that September, and any combination (West and Vardy, West and Blicavs) would have been better.*

(* I've been looking at the hitouts, clearances, and stoppages stats in the games where our ruck combination has been Vardy and Blicavs. It makes for ugly reading. I will happily admit to being wrong about Blicavs, and that he does have a role especially as perhaps backup ruckman/part-time midfielder. But we cannot play those two as our ruck duo; it hands too much of an advantage to the opposition.)

West is also a #2 ruckman. Very serviceable backup for Ottens in 2011, but a lousy #1 ruck. As far as size, Vardy is 1cm taller and probably as heavy.
We desperately need a fit mobile #1 Ruck. Wold love to have a go for Zac Smith, now that it seems DS is cooked

 

[RightorKhan]

Not 100% on him yet but I'd say he looks confused and clueless most the time. Really don't like his Ross Lyon game play that invites any opposition to put us away as another poster mentioned. Can't win premierships with loser mentality gameplay.

Regardless we should sign up Paul Roos when he leaves Melbourne. All our problems could be infact coming from a coaching deficiency. A coaching deficiency that on the inside could be incredibly severe and currently unknown to the public.

 

[kidkenobi]

He's had roughly twice the tenure at this club that most coaches are afforded at a club. I don't think his age is either here or there, because if you fail in your first chance as an AFL coach, you will be very long odds to get another go (take guys like Ratten and Voss as examples).

As for the team relating to him, I can cop the recent loss to Hawthorn, but when you have everything to play for in the context of the season and in terms of individual players and dish up what we did against Melbourne (Enright's 300th, a win would have taken us to fifth or sixth on the ladder), St Kilda (Vardy's comeback, a win would have meant North needed to win two of its last three to be guaranteed of finals) and Collingwood (Menzel's comeback, a virtual final for us)...three teams that didn't have anywhere near the same level motivation as we should have had to win, that is a massive red flag.

Most, if not all, of our games in recent months have been important, due to our awful start to the season. But recently, we seem to play better against teams that also would be highly motivated to win (GWS, Bulldogs, Sydney, Hawthorn to an extent) than we do against teams that are just grinding towards the inevitable end of their seasons. What does that say about the coach's ability to motivate his players?

But you say that like we SHOULD win every game. I agree some of those loses were disappointing and we were good enough to win some/most of them, but this is not the same team as 5 years ago let alone 2 years ago. People get so use to winning they can't see the forest from the trees and realise this team is completely different and we can't just expect the same level of performance year in year out.

Teams with lots of young players are inconsistent, it's not so simple as to blame the coach for not being able to motivate them to get up every week.