Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[geelong_crazy26]

By the way I actually still think we can win the flag next year if things go our way over the trade period .

 

[Vdubs]

I'm suggesting that a team that is more experienced, that is higher on the ladder and that has a lot more to play for would be expected to take care of business and not hide behind the frankly pathetic excuse of having inexperienced players. And I'm sure that if I bothered to go through the respective preview threads, few - if any - would have thought the Pies would win and no-one would have given Melbourne or St Kilda a chance.



I think injuries happen. Geelong could have brought in GHS and it did bring in Kelly, to join Guthrie, Blicavs, Motlop, Selwood, Johnson and Lang as midfield options. I also think Collingwood was significantly weakened by the absence of Cloke and Toovey.



Based on the assumption that all players hit the absolute prime of their careers at the exact same age?

Why don't you do that just for the exercise?
Could be surprised.

 

[Vdubs]

Chris Scott and the rest of the match committee decided not to play Horlin-Smith. That's on them. There's a bunch of midfielders that aren't considered to be as good as Selwood that do produce on a weekly basis, regardless of what their teammates are doing.

How many here have said GHS is simply not up to it this year. Needs a full preseason, he's found out in the heat of an AFL game it would appear.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I think your getting a bit confused .In 2011 thanks largely to Scott we accomplished that mission to go from good to great .

You cant just simply go and replace players like the ones we have lost over the past few years. It took us as almost 10 years to build that premiership side.

Let me directly quote Brian Cook

"I would have loved for all of the supporters to have jumped on board, and, this is a new journey and it is going to be a bumpy one too, I think,” Cook told the Herald Sun.

“It’s going to take a little bit of time and it’s going to take a fair bit of resilience from our supporters.

“I just hope that through these minor setbacks and minor hardships that there is a positive reaction from our supporters because it has been a pretty good ride for 10 years.

“It can’t last forever and we know that equalisation does take its toll.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-list-transition/story-fni5f6yf-1227323754554

Chris Scott deserves a lot of credit for what he did in 2011. He took, what was pretty clearly (as far as I'm concerned) still a top four list and won a premiership that even the most optimistic Geelong supporter would have thought was difficult to envision when he took over. He's shown that he can inherit a top quality list and take it to the promised land and that's no faint praise, because plenty of other coaches haven't been able to do that. Has he shown that he can adequately rebuild a list? I don't think so. I think what we've got from the 'Scott year' drafts has been moderate, at best. And I think the pressure will be on him in 2016.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

How many here have said GHS is simply not up to it this year. Needs a full preseason, he's found out in the heat of an AFL game it would appear.

Well, I haven't. I thought he was very unlucky to be dropped.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Why don't you do that just for the exercise?
Could be surprised.

Because I have better things to do. Feel free to surprise me with all those posters that thought Enright's 300th and Vardy's return would end with losses to Melbourne and St Kilda.

 

[Vdubs]

Chris Scott deserves a lot of credit for what he did in 2011. He took, what was pretty clearly (as far as I'm concerned) still a top four list and won a premiership that even the most optimistic Geelong supporter would have thought was difficult to envision when he took over. He's shown that he can inherit a top quality list and take it to the promised land and that's no faint praise, because plenty of other coaches haven't been able to do that. Has he shown that he can adequately rebuild a list? I don't think so. I think what we've got from the 'Scott year' drafts has been moderate, at best. And I think the pressure will be on him in 2016.

How do define "adequately rebuild"?
We are talking one of the all-time great teams, from 07-11.
And where is your cut-off time? Our list has not really fully been culled, according to our other posts.

 

[Vdubs]

Well, I haven't. I thought he was very unlucky to be dropped.

Because I have better things to do. Feel free to surprise me with all those posters that thought Enright's 300th and Vardy's return would end with losses to Melbourne and St Kilda.

Your talents are wasted on BF.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

How do define "adequately rebuild"?
We are talking one of the all-time great teams, from 07-11.
And where is your cut-off time? Our list has not really fully been culled, according to our other posts.

I'd define 'adequately rebuild' as AFL calibre replacements at the positions that were vacated. We still don't have a permanent answer to the ruck issue that has existed since Ottens retired. We don't have anything even resembling a lock-down tagger. There's not a 30-35 goal a year small forward in sight.

The cut-off time is - pretty clearly - when the coach inevitably gets canned. And I would think that if we were forming a list of coaches that could conceivably be sacked in 2016, Chris Scott would comfortably be in the top five, if Geelong continues to slide.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Your talents are wasted on BF.

So you also have better things to do? I'll just assume that I'm right then.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Hey, you've made mistakes in judgement too. So maybe don't throw stones.

I've had plenty of stones thrown my way already. Just sending some back.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I've had plenty of stones thrown my way already. Just sending some back.

And you've been wrong at times also. I'd hazard a guess that every poster on this site has been wrong at some point. Throwing it in their face is necessary??

 

[Biggy_Boy]

And you've been wrong at times also. I'd hazard a guess that every poster on this site has been wrong at some point. Throwing it in their face is necessary??

Probably about as necessary as tagging my name in gameday threads and the Chris Scott coaching thread when Geelong wins, wouldn't you think?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Probably about as necessary as tagging my name in gameday threads and the Chris Scott coaching thread when Geelong wins, wouldn't you think?

Have I done that? If so I apologise. I'm sick of a certain someone tagging myself so I shouldn't do that if I have.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Chris Scott deserves a lot of credit for what he did in 2011. He took, what was pretty clearly (as far as I'm concerned) still a top four list and won a premiership that even the most optimistic Geelong supporter would have thought was difficult to envision when he took over. He's shown that he can inherit a top quality list and take it to the promised land and that's no faint praise, because plenty of other coaches haven't been able to do that. Has he shown that he can adequately rebuild a list? I don't think so. I think what we've got from the 'Scott year' drafts has been moderate, at best. And I think the pressure will be on him in 2016.

Chris Scotts input where drafting players is concerned is very minimal, if you are actually referencing the national drafts. That responsibility is in Wells hands and his team, Scott is too busy with other coaching for this, recruiting and drafting is a full time job with a whole department and many scouts going through hundreds and hundreds of hours of football, i know for a fact they have often viewed a couple of hundred hours of footage over years for players they follow since 15-16 years of age, it is a lot of work, if you think Scott has the time to indulge into this past the bare minimum weekly or on going meeting here and there, then you might need to re think that.

Steve Hocking and Wells would be more responsible for recruitment and drafting, yes Scott would have a say as to what direction he wants in terms of types of players and what he wants added to the list giving a direction for Wells to head in such as " we want bigger bodied midfielders, or some outside pace" , but i wouldn't say much more input then that.

thats why it is so crucial we have top quality everywhere throughout our club behind the scenes, because the coach is only able to focus on so much going on.

 

[Vdubs]

So you also have better things to do? I'll just assume that I'm right then.

I don't need to look it up on my behalf. Reason- self-explanatory.

 

[SJ]

Last night showed serious flaws in Scott and the Coaching/selection brigade. It also showed serious flaws in their preparation for games. It also revealed that our obsession with ruckman, which we have consistently got wrong for the past four years( McIntosh).
Yes we had a injuries but the game plan has to be prepared for the players that are there. So without our two gun mid fielders why did the game plan rely on going down the middle and handballing to players. That worked five year ago, it might have worked last night with Duncan and Caddy . But in the end we have now seen two games in which Scott and Co got it wrong.
Just like in 2013 when we were a chance Scott and Co did not play a game nor players to advantage. In the year they stuffed up with Hawkins during the year and then when he couldn't play ignored West who was fit but sitting in the stands.
Don't think that he and they have a clue. And please no more of 2011 he had aside that was able to win with little or no input from him. He also still had McCartney and Sanderson.

Although I don't mind that strategy as an overriding philosophy, doing the same thing week in week out against every team in every situation is madness.

 

[00VicWard001]

Probably about as necessary as tagging my name in gameday threads and the Chris Scott coaching thread when Geelong wins, wouldn't you think?

I need to work out how to do this so I can annoy the s#it out of you too...

 

[Partridge]

How many here have said GHS is simply not up to it this year. Needs a full preseason, he's found out in the heat of an AFL game it would appear.

Do you really think that VD? I'd be very surprised if you do. Way back in the mists of time - an entire two weeks' ago - Horlin-Smith had 26 touches against some team called Hawthorn. I can't recall too many comments about how out of place he was. Nor for that matter, against Sydney in Round 4, 2013 (when he won a Rising Star nomination in his 4th senior game); or Round 4 last year against West Coast (23 touches and 3 goals); or Round 9 against Fremantle (a mere 30 touches against a pretty tough midfield); or Round 12 against Carlton (22 touches and 2 goals).

If people are now hopping on board the "Horlin-Smith-is-too-slow-and-can't-make-it" train, great. I disagree. He's shown he can handle the "heat" of an AFL game this year (two weeks' ago), last year, and the year before that. And when he gets demoted to the VFL, he doesn't whinge, and with zero fuss goes back and dominates (as he has once again done an entire two days' ago). Once upon a time such attributes might have been viewed positively in a young player.

 

[Partridge]

Horlin-Smith is no substitute for Caddy and Duncan , they are significantly better players . All players have bad games .Stop acting like a spoilt brat and grow up.

Give Horlin-Smith a full season next year (presuming he's over any injury concerns) and I would argue that gap will close very fast. Agree that Duncan is clearly superior to either; but last season Horlin-Smith averaged more clearances than Caddy. I personally think those two will complement each other very nicely.

 

[Vdubs]

Do you really think that VD? I'd be very surprised if you do. Way back in the mists of time - an entire two weeks' ago - Horlin-Smith had 26 touches against some team called Hawthorn. I can't recall too many comments about how out of place he was. Nor for that matter, against Sydney in Round 4, 2013 (when he won a Rising Star nomination in his 4th senior game); or Round 4 last year against West Coast (23 touches and 3 goals); or Round 9 against Fremantle (a mere 30 touches against a pretty tough midfield); or Round 12 against Carlton (22 touches and 2 goals).

If people are now hopping on board the "Horlin-Smith-is-too-slow-and-can't-make-it" train, great. I disagree. He's shown he can handle the "heat" of an AFL game this year (two weeks' ago), last year, and the year before that. And when he gets demoted to the VFL, he doesn't whinge, and with zero fuss goes back and dominates (as he has once again done an entire two days' ago). Once upon a time such attributes might have been viewed positively in a young player.

I have seen him this year with mixed results and mixed feelings; I don't think he is adequately fit, and would benefit from a full preseason and being healthy. I am merely commenting based on the fact that the coaches/MC have seen it fit for him to be dropped again, and they rate him enough for a 3 year deal. So no, I am not an advocate that he won't make it, but he is victim of lack of adequate fitness compounding his natural game style. That fitness looked pretty good in the VFL game btw.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Chris Scotts input where drafting players is concerned is very minimal, if you are actually referencing the national drafts. That responsibility is in Wells hands and his team, Scott is too busy with other coaching for this, recruiting and drafting is a full time job with a whole department and many scouts going through hundreds and hundreds of hours of football, i know for a fact they have often viewed a couple of hundred hours of footage over years for players they follow since 15-16 years of age, it is a lot of work, if you think Scott has the time to indulge into this past the bare minimum weekly or on going meeting here and there, then you might need to re think that.

Steve Hocking and Wells would be more responsible for recruitment and drafting, yes Scott would have a say as to what direction he wants in terms of types of players and what he wants added to the list giving a direction for Wells to head in such as " we want bigger bodied midfielders, or some outside pace" , but i wouldn't say much more input then that.

thats why it is so crucial we have top quality everywhere throughout our club behind the scenes, because the coach is only able to focus on so much going on.

There are gaps that have existed for a long time that haven't been filled. We've taken one ruckman in the national draft since Simpson and he was always going to be a one or two year stopgap at best (Stephenson). Then there's the development issue. Younger players are stagnating and, in the case of Hartman and Toohey, leaving the club altogether.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Give Horlin-Smith a full season next year (presuming he's over any injury concerns) and I would argue that gap will close very fast. Agree that Duncan is clearly superior to either; but last season Horlin-Smith averaged more clearances than Caddy. I personally think those two will complement each other very nicely.

They (GHS & Caddy) were nearly neck and neck across the board statistically last year and seeing GHS find some form late this year provides some optimism for taking that next step in 2016.

Actually not sure how he even managed to get dropped last week. Anyway, hopefully comes back in this week and has a great game but I'd actually say it's unlikely now, because I reckon they'll make it something of a send-off game for a few senior players.

 

[Partridge]

I have seen him this year with mixed results and mixed feelings; I don't think he is adequately fit, and would benefit from a full preseason and being healthy. I am merely commenting based on the fact that the coaches/MC have seen it fit for him to be dropped again, and they rate him enough for a 3 year deal. So no, I am not an advocate that he won't make it, but he is victim of lack of adequate fitness compounding his natural game style. That fitness looked pretty good in the VFL game btw.

That's a fair point; I don't think he was fully fit at the start of the season either, and if the question was "why was he playing" then it's a whole different argument. My point is when at full fitness he's absolutely an AFL-standard player.

 

[Partridge]

They (GHS & Caddy) were nearly neck and neck across the board statistically last year and seeing GHS find some form late this year provides some optimism for taking that next step in 2016.

Actually not sure how he even managed to get dropped last week. Anyway, hopefully comes back in this week and has a great game but I'd actually say it's unlikely now, because I reckon they'll make it something of a send-off game for a few senior players.

As frustrating as it is, I'm pretty confident it would be about team balance, and only x amount of slow midfielders can be out there in any one week. That's not unreasonable. Prior to at least Friday night, they obviously thought Bartel and Kelly were better midfield options. I'm hoping they've come to their senses now, but as our season is shot, they might as well get a last salute for the crowd (as well as Stokes).