Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[Farmer2Goggin]

That's a fair point; I don't think he was fully fit at the start of the season either, and if the question was "why was he playing" then it's a whole different argument. My point is when at full fitness he's absolutely an AFL-standard player.

GHS develops a range of feelings on this Board.
One thing we should all agree upon is that his decision making and skills are defenitely AFL standard.
His ability to find a target and give that target time to execute was sorely missed on Friday hight - how many times did our MF choose a hopeless handball option resulting in a turnover by putting the recipient under pressure?
I've no doubt he will be a valuable part of our MF mix in the future.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

There are gaps that have existed for a long time that haven't been filled. We've taken one ruckman in the national draft since Simpson and he was always going to be a one or two year stopgap at best (Stephenson). Then there's the development issue. Younger players are stagnating and, in the case of Hartman and Toohey, leaving the club altogether.

I agree about the ruck ,its the 1 position that I am worried about long term .

I think this is more an issue to take up with Wells and Hocking ,do you honestly think Scott is saying to them don't find me another Brad Ottens ?
we are obviously having a tough time finding a good ruckman , they don't grow on trees .Its a bit like how for so long under Thompson we couldn't find a good KP forward .

Not sure what you mean with regards to younger players , we have given young players plenty of opportunities over the past few years .Those who haven't been able to get into the side are just not up to the standard .

 

[candiehappy]

I agree about the ruck ,its the 1 position that I am worried about long term .

I think this is more an issue to take up with Wells and Hocking ,do you honestly think Scott is saying to them don't find me another Brad Ottens ?
we are obviously having a tough time finding a good ruckman , they don't grow on trees .Its a bit like how for so long under Thompson we couldn't find a good KP forward .

Not sure what you mean with regards to younger players , we have given young players plenty of opportunities over the past few years .Those who haven't been able to get into the side are just not up to the standard .

nothing crazy about that post ...

for me the issue about Scott's coaching is the apparent lack of plan B, and this strict adherence to the game plan. Even when that game plan is clearly not working. I'm sure that he will see out his contract, but I think that it will be time for a new coaching style then.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I agree about the ruck ,its the 1 position that I am worried about long term .

I think this is more an issue to take up with Wells and Hocking ,do you honestly think Scott is saying to them don't find me another Brad Ottens ?
we are obviously having a tough time finding a good ruckman , they don't grow on trees .Its a bit like how for so long under Thompson we couldn't find a good KP forward .

Well, the obvious example is Brodie Grundy. If Chris Scott wanted a ruckman badly enough, we could have easily taken him in the 2012 draft.

Not sure what you mean with regards to younger players , we have given young players plenty of opportunities over the past few years .Those who haven't been able to get into the side are just not up to the standard .

Some young players have been given plenty of opportunities. Some have gone from being golden children to whipping boys. Let's take the 2011 draft for example:

• Hamling: delisted without playing a game. Given a lifeline by the Bulldogs and looks a certainty to play in the finals for them this year.
• Kersten: expected to be the next big thing and the steal of the draft while he battled injuries in his first few seasons. When he finally debuted, he started with a bang, but has stagnated badly since then. Very difficult to find a spot in next year's team for him.
• Murdoch: one of the 'golden children' and along with Kersten was considered an absolute steal at the time. He looks to be paying moderate dividends now.
• McCarthy: another 'golden child' that people rave about and who seems to be considered an automatic inclusion when he's fit. I haven't really seen it; I think people on here like him because he's a scrapper, but he needs to add a lot of polish to his game to be an effective small forward at the top level.
• Stephenson: cheap, quick stopgap ruckman.
• Bews: starved of opportunities in 2014, when he was looking like our most promising small defender. Dropped twice in the back half of 2015, when he should be persisted with.

 

[David the Cat]

Well, the obvious example is Brodie Grundy. If Chris Scott wanted a ruckman badly enough, we could have easily taken him in the 2012 draft.



Some young players have been given plenty of opportunities. Some have gone from being golden children to whipping boys. Let's take the 2011 draft for example:

• Hamling: delisted without playing a game. Given a lifeline by the Bulldogs and looks a certainty to play in the finals for them this year.
• Kersten: expected to be the next big thing and the steal of the draft while he battled injuries in his first few seasons. When he finally debuted, he started with a bang, but has stagnated badly since then. Very difficult to find a spot in next year's team for him.
• Murdoch: one of the 'golden children' and along with Kersten was considered an absolute steal at the time. He looks to be paying moderate dividends now.
• McCarthy: another 'golden child' that people rave about and who seems to be considered an automatic inclusion when he's fit. I haven't really seen it; I think people on here like him because he's a scrapper, but he needs to add a lot of polish to his game to be an effective small forward at the top level.
• Stephenson: cheap, quick stopgap ruckman.
• Bews: starved of opportunities in 2014, when he was looking like our most promising small defender. Dropped twice in the back half of 2015, when he should be persisted with.

IF we took Grundy, we missed on Thurlow.....taking Thurlow instead was a reasonable decision.

I think Bews was rested from the rigors of AFL...I recall he played one VFL game, and sat out football for a couple of weeks...perhaps his body needed a break..

Agree about McCarthy 100%.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

IF we took Grundy, we missed on Thurlow.....taking Thurlow instead was a reasonable decision.

I think so too. I'm just pointing out that there was at least one opportunity to take a ruckman in the first round and (rightly or wrongly) we decided not to make it a priority.

 

[Frappe]

As frustrating as it is, I'm pretty confident it would be about team balance, and only x amount of slow midfielders can be out there in any one week. That's not unreasonable. Prior to at least Friday night, they obviously thought Bartel and Kelly were better midfield options. I'm hoping they've come to their senses now, but as our season is shot, they might as well get a last salute for the crowd (as well as Stokes).

Agree re team balance - especially as Pies appeared to be pretty quick across the ground.

 

[catempire]

I think so too. I'm just pointing out that there was at least one opportunity to take a ruckman in the first round and (rightly or wrongly) we decided not to make it a priority.

Once we traded for McIntosh and already had Simpson and Vardy on the list it didn't make sense to select Grundy.

McIntosh was the mistake that had a domino-like effect on our ruck situation for years to come. Only now are we free of it.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I think so too. I'm just pointing out that there was at least one opportunity to take a ruckman in the first round and (rightly or wrongly) we decided not to make it a priority.

I heard that Grundy came off like a bit of a dick head with all the clubs that interviewed him. Wells would've never taken him

 

[ATSAM]

Agree re team balance - especially as Pies appeared to be pretty quick across the ground.

Can't agree. Surely team balance would have been to replace two midfielders with at least one eg GHS and leave out Cockatoo given that we had Menzel back in. Although having said who the heck knows what position Cockatoo is meant to play in and is being groomed for.

 

[Partridge]

I heard that Grundy came off like a bit of a dick head with all the clubs that interviewed him. Wells would've never taken him

Perhaps. Taylor Adams is an even bigger one probably. As we found out Friday night though, he can play.

Now that the premierships are a fading memory, it'll be interesting to see if the high moral ground will be as populated with Geelong fans as it has been in recent years. Very easy to be holier than thou when you're winning.

 

[Leeds17]

Reason I was and am still a big fan of McCarthy is that even when he only got 10-15 touches in the VFL there was just that indescribable thing about him that screamed AFL player, Gore has it, Bates has it, the skill and poise he showed in the VFL was somewhat lost in his few AFL games but am happy to put that down to nerves.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Perhaps. Taylor Adams is an even bigger one probably. As we found out Friday night though, he can play.

Now that the premierships are a fading memory, it'll be interesting to see if the high moral ground will be as populated with Geelong fans as it has been in recent years. Very easy to be holier than thou when you're winning.

i'm sure most clubs would love their time over again with regards to Jack Darling. Now of course there are occasions when bad attitude gets in the way ala Dayle Garlett.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Well, the obvious example is Brodie Grundy. If Chris Scott wanted a ruckman badly enough, we could have easily taken him in the 2012 draft.



Some young players have been given plenty of opportunities. Some have gone from being golden children to whipping boys. Let's take the 2011 draft for example:

• Hamling: delisted without playing a game. Given a lifeline by the Bulldogs and looks a certainty to play in the finals for them this year.
• Kersten: expected to be the next big thing and the steal of the draft while he battled injuries in his first few seasons. When he finally debuted, he started with a bang, but has stagnated badly since then. Very difficult to find a spot in next year's team for him.
• Murdoch: one of the 'golden children' and along with Kersten was considered an absolute steal at the time. He looks to be paying moderate dividends now.
• McCarthy: another 'golden child' that people rave about and who seems to be considered an automatic inclusion when he's fit. I haven't really seen it; I think people on here like him because he's a scrapper, but he needs to add a lot of polish to his game to be an effective small forward at the top level.
• Stephenson: cheap, quick stopgap ruckman.
• Bews: starved of opportunities in 2014, when he was looking like our most promising small defender. Dropped twice in the back half of 2015, when he should be persisted with.

You must of missed what I said about ruckman , this is something that should be taken up more with Wells and Hocking than Scott .Do you honestly think that Scott was told here is outstanding young ruckman and his response was no I am not interested ? Give me a break , wells simply didn't spot Grundy who was passed up by almost every other team.

Not 1 of those points really concern me .You seems to think that all players should be given equal opportunity , this is nothing more than a fantasy .Players with certain attributes are going to get given more opportunity than others .Murdoch is the example , his size and athletic ability are something that just cant be taught , sure he might not make it but hes going to get more opportunity than others.

Something else to keep in mind is that the club is in much much better position to make a judgement than any of us , to be honest we really shouldn't be questioning them. They know fast they are over 20 meters ,100 meters,200 meters,400,meters,2km ,their endurance level ,their jumping height, their agility,their coordination ,their lateral vision,their pushing strength,their pulling strength,their lower body strength and more.

Just because Hamling play for the bulldogs who by the way have done nothing so far ,doesn't mean he's a good player .Sides can make the finals with 16 good players and 6 ordinary players in the side.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think so too. I'm just pointing out that there was at least one opportunity to take a ruckman in the first round and (rightly or wrongly) we decided not to make it a priority.

He was taken at pick 18 mate , clubs obviously didn't realise how good he was .Wells simply missed him.

 

[Lana]

He was taken at pick 18 mate , clubs obviously didn't realise how good he was .Wells simply missed him.

The whole year he was talked up as a top 3 pick, check all of the phantom drafts that year and he was considered a good talent but at lot of rumors were flying around him that he was a bit of a tool and he started sliding as the draft approached, the biggest being was that during interviews during draft camp it was almost him interviewing the clubs as much as they were interviewing him. When I was watching the draft live I was excited that he was still around when our pick turned around which turned to shock when Thurlow's name was read out I was like Thurlow who. Same thing happened the next year when we picked Lang over Dunstan... and to a much lesser extent Smedts over Atley and I.Smith). Not that I'm currently resentful or upset with our picks.

I'm hardly a draft guru I mainly just read the phantoms and watch the highlight clips of the players. I occasionally I catch a of the championships.
So my personal shock doesn't mean much but Grundy was certainly rated pre-draft.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Perhaps. Taylor Adams is an even bigger one probably. As we found out Friday night though, he can play.

Now that the premierships are a fading memory, it'll be interesting to see if the high moral ground will be as populated with Geelong fans as it has been in recent years. Very easy to be holier than thou when you're winning.

We should always take the high moral ground. But we should kneel when we are there.

 

[Frappe]

Can't agree. Surely team balance would have been to replace two midfielders with at least one eg GHS and leave out Cockatoo given that we had Menzel back in. Although having said who the heck knows what position Cockatoo is meant to play in and is being groomed for.

Didn't say I agree with the approach - only that's why he was left out.

 

[BlightysCats]

We desperately need a ruckman and a genuine old fashioned small forward, I'd say we'll trade Walker for Luenberger and we should draft a small forward or cling to hope Lincoln McCarthy somehow gets up next year.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Please not Leuenberger. We've had our quota of injured players. No more. Durable rucks or GTFO!

 

[Vdubs]

Please not Leuenberger. We've had our quota of injured players. No more. Durable rucks or GTFO!

Zac Smith???

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Zac Smith???

Or Zac Clarke. He's still un-signed.

 

[Partridge]

Please not Leuenberger. We've had our quota of injured players. No more. Durable rucks or GTFO!

Nah I'm keen, with McIntosh gone, Simpson more than likely going, there's a very real danger we may have a semblance of a fit ruck division. Getting Leuenberger preserves the equilibrium.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Nah I'm keen, with McIntosh gone, Simpson more than likely going, there's a very real danger we may have a semblance of a fit ruck division. Getting Leuenberger preserves the equilibrium.

No. I've had my fill. Enough is enough. If we draft someone who becomes injury prone so be it, but trade well enough is enough.

 

[Lana]

Zac Smith???

Zac Smith isn't much better than Leuenberger on the injury front