2015 Trade/FA Discussion (cont. in Pt.2)

[SizeMatters]

I wonder if Cutler could play as a winger? He has some serious pace and his kicking is generally good, although today it was shocking. He can kick a bloody good goal as well as evident last season. Dawson playing off the HBF is looking really promising and has allowed Rich to play up the ground more.

I agree that we still need a fast line breaking 70m player on the wings (Seedsman?). I didn't like Aish playing that position so when he leaves it will allow a more modern winger to take his place.

 

[SizeMatters]

Both will end up getting 3 or 4 years at $450 - 550K somewhere...they'll end up with 1-2, we'll get 3-4.

Not a bad result considering we have Hipwood and Keays tied up later in the first round if we want to take them.

And whatever we get for Aish (and anyone else that decides to leave).

Add to that the 2-3 experienced players apparently coming in according to Leppa. Mentioned it on our website during the week. Sounded as if they were already OTL too

Yes I had forgotten about that. Leppa did mention last year? that we will only be bringing in A graders as well... can't help but think he may have dismissed that idea.

 

[mpal6]

Midfield one paced and slow? What you talkin 'bout Willis? We could do with some additional outside class and elite decision making, but one paced?

Didn't look one paced and slow today against the team who apparently is one of the slickest going round.

Maybe I'm wrong

Rich/Redden/Rockliff/Robbo all are on the same bracket in terms of pace and spread from the stoppage in my opinion. All the top teams have one or two pacey types who can break off congestion with ease. We don't have any.

Hawks: Smith/Hill/Hartung
Swans: Jetta / Rohan does this from time to time/ Cunningham is pretty good too but doesn't get to play in the middle that often
Dockers: Hill
Eagles: I don't watch them that often, so no comments here
GWS: Nathan Wilson

Granted, today's game was excellent and our overall ball movement can mask this deficiency. Player wise, we don't have the run and carry type - had one, but he took off to Port.

 

[Panthera]

Yes I had forgotten about that. Leppa did mention last year? that we will only be bringing in A graders as well... can't help but think he may have dismissed that idea.

You simply can't only bring in A-Graders...there needs to be the vital role players too. And of course, A-Graders cost more.

 

[askdotcom]

Rich/Redden/Rockliff/Robbo all are on the same bracket in terms of pace and spread from the stoppage in my opinion. All the top teams have one or two pacey types who can break off congestion with ease. We don't have any.

Hawks: Smith/Hill/Hartung
Swans: Jetta / Rohan does this from time to time/ Cunningham is pretty good too but doesn't get to play in the middle that often
Dockers: Hill
Eagles: I don't watch them that often, so no comments here
GWS: Nathan Wilson

Granted, today's game was excellent and the our overall ball movement can mask this deficiency. Player wise, we don't have the run and carry type - had one, but he took off to Port.

hanley zorko.

 

[Albi_Mangler]

First round FA compo is just wrong. Teams should not get extra draft picks before pick 10. Whole FA system is a steaming pile of shit.

 

[Slax]

If anyone thinks the AFL will let Carlton have pick 1 & 2 you're on something. They're stupid but now that stupid that's some real stupid right there. We will get shache 110% guarantee we will get him.

They may well get them and we will have no way of stopping it, rumours are that Kruezer may leave as a RFA if he does it is highly likely they would get pick 2 then we are totally screwed and questions must be seriously asked if anyone in the coaches box thought about 2016 because from the outside I would say no.

 

[Panthera]

They may well get them and we will have no way of stopping it, rumours are that Kruezer may leave as a RFA if he does it is highly likely they would get pick 2 then we are totally screwed and questions must be seriously asked if anyone in the coaches box thought about 2016 because from the outside I would say no.

100% they will now get pick #2, Kruezer will get a low-ball offer from Carlton and will take the ca$h elsewhere.

Nothing surer

 

[Slax]

You have brought up a number of things that you may have more insight than most of us - one being unrest and division at board level. I'm of the view that with Leigh Matthews on board that we now have stability and more importantly footy smarts on the board.
You forget that we are still in with a big chance to get Schache at pick 2. What a result it would be that we
- finish the season with a win
- not win the wooden spoon
- get Schache
My disappointment to your post was it was so negative on all fronts. You need to look for the positives and the fact that we have an awful run with injuries this year.
Also, as a Victorian Member since 1997 (formerly Fitzroy), I will always follow the lions regardless of ladder position. I see hope and that's all I need for the short-term. Most of my friends (non-Lions supporters) also see that hope. All my Richmond mates speak highly on Leppa and all my mates speak highly of our younger players like Andrews and Freeman.
Another point, sometimes you need to go backwards to go forwards and I'm hoping this is the case with the Lions.
Keep the faith mate

The problem with the board is that it is split between the Mathews camp those behind Shapless.

Kruezer leaving Carlton as a RFA would mean Carlton would almost certainly get pick 2, given the Frawley compo. This is very much on the cards as he has refused to recommit to Carlton and would be a total disaster for us.

My negatively is built out of 8 years of frustration of being a Vic based member and Fitzroy member. The contempt that was shown to the Victorian members over a number of years especially from about 09-13 was disgusting. Family days at the Zoo, family days that went for 20 minutes after a practice match. No after match functions with players for 2 years, meet the players on a Sunday morning between 8-9am, sure they have to fly back, but it isn't easy to get places on a Sunday morning at that hour with kids involved.

A lot of people spoke very highly of Mark Neeld too, but he set Melbourne back 5 years. Look at St Kilda and Bulldogs, both clubs pulled a trigger quickly on new coaches who went performing and look at how they have rebounded. Both clubs who 12 months ago many thought were behind us in terms of rebuild are now clearly in front of us.

Going backwards to go forwards is sometimes needed, but we are in our third or fourth rebuild in a decade, that is just pathetic. Our skills have gone backwards over the last two years and that is what is most frustrating. You can't tell me that there was a single thing you liked about the Melbourne game.

 

[lions27]

I reckon the afl will only award end of first round picks this year regardless.
Carltank done themselves no favours when they deliberately didn't play one of their best players because he was leaving.

 

[Panthera]

I reckon the afl will only award end of first round picks this year regardless.
Carltank done themselves no favours when they deliberately didn't play one of their best players because he was leaving.

It's all to do with the contract; if his new one entitles them to pick #2 (same as Frawley)...so be it.

AFL have made the rules, they can't / won't change them to suit us.

 

[Hollow Knight]

It's all to do with the contract; if his new one entitles them to pick #2 (same as Frawley)...so be it.

AFL have made the rules, they can't / won't change them to suit us.

They may not need to "change the rules" as such. This clause exists in the Free Agency compensation rules.

"In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result."

Could be argued that pick 2 for a perpetually injury prone ruckman like Kreuzer (or Leuenberger for that matter) is materially anomalous.

 

[pOleK]

Can someone please quote these fools that are saying "we are going backwards" in 5 years time (or at the end of next season depending how we're goin).

Yes this year has been nowhere near ideal but we have unearthed some quality youngsters in the past few years. If these players are serious about the club they should stay and be a driving force for our next finals charge. Sure inexperience and injuries can be blamed for our dreadful year but getting games into our younger players is crucial.

Anyways, I have complete faith in Leppitsch and think he his taking the club in the right direction.

 

[Panthera]

They may not need to "change the rules" as such. This clause exists in the Free Agency compensation rules.

"In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result."

Could be argued that pick 2 for a perpetually injury prone ruckman like Kreuzer (or Leuenberger for that matter) is materially anomalous.

Just can't see them doing it...the AFL aren't known for making great decisions that go against VFL clubs

 

[neg99]

Also the irony of everyone banging on about how much we need Schache is the consistent example of what could be done is the Bulldogs. Their no. 1 forward is Crameri who is 192/193cm and no. 2 is stringer who is about the same. Their forward structure works supremely well because of good ball movement, quickness and most importantly the defensive pressure their forward 6 can put on the opposition when it's turned over.

One of our big structural issues all year was playing a 2nd ruck in the forward line alongside 2, sometimes 3 tall forwards (West/Luey, McStay, Freeman, McGuane, Staker) with Staker pulling out late yesterday we found out first hand how much better we look with smaller, more agile types in the fwd line.

The doggies built this list from 3 drafts, all of which during GWS/GCS years where they didn't have picks 1 or 2. This year if we can pick up Scache then great otherwise Francis looks a very likely type with ties to the club and seems eerily similar to Stringer who is now a 50 goal forward.

If we get pick 3/4 as well then even better we can load up, show some more faith and get more games into Freeman, McStay and Close then reassess. With players moving so frequently there's a higher chance of a good quality KPF like Boyd being dislodged and we can do something like the dogs did.

Boyd will come into his own in a year or two when they are really challenging and we should look to do the same.


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[Leemas]

They may well get them and we will have no way of stopping it, rumours are that Kruezer may leave as a RFA if he does it is highly likely they would get pick 2 then we are totally screwed and questions must be seriously asked if anyone in the coaches box thought about 2016 because from the outside I would say no.

Mate I can guarantee that the AFL will not give Carlton 1 & 2. just like there was no way in hell that we would get 1&2 when we were finishing last. The AFL won't completely **** us over. Now that we've finished second last I am more optomistic about getting picks 2 & 3 with the leuy compo. But I will seriously eat my boot if Carlton end up with picks 1 & 2

 

[Slax]

Mate I can guarantee that the AFL will not give Carlton 1 & 2. just like there was no way in hell that we would get 1&2 when we were finishing last. The AFL won't completely **** us over. Now that we've finished second last I am more optomistic about getting picks 2 & 3 with the leuy compo. But I will seriously eat my boot if Carlton end up with picks 1 & 2

No-one thought Melbourne would get pick 3 for Frawley.

If Kruezer goes and gets say $600-650k per season then combined with being a former #1 pick it is first round compo, so pick #2. The AFL created a rod for their own back with Frawley and it will come back to bite us in the arse massively.

I've noted post Leemas and will come and watch the boot eating if they get it. I'm not saying they will, just saying that it is a serious chance of happening. Our best bet is Bolton talks him into signing on again.

 

[Leemas]

No-one thought Melbourne would get pick 3 for Frawley.

If Kruezer goes and gets say $600-650k per season then combined with being a former #1 pick it is first round compo, so pick #2. The AFL created a rod for their own back with Frawley and it will come back to bite us in the arse massively.

I've noted post Leemas and will come and watch the boot eating if they get it. I'm not saying they will, just saying that it is a serious chance of happening. Our best bet is Bolton talks him into signing on again.

That's cause the AFL bumped it up pretty much a compo pick in disguise. They also have the power to bump it down. FWIW I don't think kruezer will get anywhere near the price that Carlton fans expect him to be offered.

 

[Tim F]

Just wait for the noise coming from melbourne about netting carlton the second pick it will happen. Only way it wont if if clubs get scared off with his medical records in his kneee and foot. Dogs got exposed and are missing a ruckman so they may take a punt on kruezer as might hawks. If AFl give them that then we have every right to ask for pick 4 if burger goes for similar amount but with barker stating this morning that they want key players at both ends of ground weitering and scache both gone. Mayes looked about as interested as a wet fart singing the team song yesterday don't be surprised in him wanting to leave. He was better in his first season then what he hss served up over last 2 years and reason is that leppa never plays him in preferred postion as half forward

 

[Kevvo]

It's hard to know how much the AFL manipulated the situation with Melbourne, but the scenarios for the two clubs were pretty different.

Carlton are very, very bad this year, but they finished 6th (adjusted) in 2013. Melbourne had been bad for a much longer time.

 

[lions2010]

The problem with the board is that it is split between the Mathews camp those behind Shapless.

Kruezer leaving Carlton as a RFA would mean Carlton would almost certainly get pick 2, given the Frawley compo. This is very much on the cards as he has refused to recommit to Carlton and would be a total disaster for us.

My negatively is built out of 8 years of frustration of being a Vic based member and Fitzroy member. The contempt that was shown to the Victorian members over a number of years especially from about 09-13 was disgusting. Family days at the Zoo, family days that went for 20 minutes after a practice match. No after match functions with players for 2 years, meet the players on a Sunday morning between 8-9am, sure they have to fly back, but it isn't easy to get places on a Sunday morning at that hour with kids involved.

A lot of people spoke very highly of Mark Neeld too, but he set Melbourne back 5 years. Look at St Kilda and Bulldogs, both clubs pulled a trigger quickly on new coaches who went performing and look at how they have rebounded. Both clubs who 12 months ago many thought were behind us in terms of rebuild are now clearly in front of us.

Going backwards to go forwards is sometimes needed, but we are in our third or fourth rebuild in a decade, that is just pathetic. Our skills have gone backwards over the last two years and that is what is most frustrating. You can't tell me that there was a single thing you liked about the Melbourne game.

Stkilda rebuilding? They won 6 games with all that 30 year old experience. Take Reiwoldt out and some of the experience and they are going backwards imo

 

[BrizzyBandit]

If Mayes wants out I'll be shattered.

Sam Mayes and James Aish if they stayed have to potential to share in something special.... Taking a bottom team to the top.

The hard times make the good times 100 times sweeter.

You've achieved nothing joining a team already developed and ready for success.

If they stay at the lions they share blood sweat, tears, disappointments, victories, hardships, successes as a common bond between them.
Without these shared experiences all you have is a paycheck.

Stay boys. We need ya.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Can ppl please putting Polec in these posts, c'Mon he is injury prone soft and one sided. Anyway we get Weitering who is being reported as the better player.....really not that bad.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

As others have indicated, even if Carlton are deemed entitled to a first round pick, it doesn't mean it has to be pick 2. There is flexibility there for them (and us) to be given an end of first round compo pick without breaking the rules or infuriating too many.

 

[HowYouDoin]

Our only hope is a priority pick.