Certified Legendary Thread Future of James Aish, for a limited time only! (trolling opposition supporters automatic day off)

[jmac70]

Dirty

Nice hot shower will help.

 

[Dom PC]

"Threaten" is probably not the right approach.

Considering our first choice is to put him in the draft, I'm not sure we are really interested in approaching anyone.

You will approach us for a trade. If you suggest that he will make it to you in the draft at any point. We simply guarantee that won't be the case by re-drafting him our selves.

 

[matwt73]

I think it works kinda like this...

Kids nominate for the national draft knowing that they could go anywhere. That's what they sign up for. And during the draft interviews and the combine, the clubs interview the kids and they try to suss out which of those kids are going to settle at their club, and in some cases that means trying to assess the Go home factor.

Most of those kids will say "I just want the chance to play at the top level, I'll come to Brisbane/ Sydney/ GC".*

Some may actually mean it but a goodly portion of those I think we can agree probably say that to be drafted as high as possible and having been told by their managers "Two years, then you can go where you want"

Leigh's stance, Brisbane's stance, destroys that.

When a manager says, "look just do your two years in Brisbane and then declare your club", there won't be any guarantees any more.

Kids will either have to be more honest, and really try to settle, or they will watch their draft stocks slide.

The AFL may also have to look at the draft, and also the base contracts. A two year base contract not only gives very little time to sell yourself to a player and get them settled in, it also can see the second year mired in speculation.

Either way, I think there are benefits to this stance. It's not against Aish, It's not against Collingwood, it just is for Brisbane


*Des Headland was always a special case.

 

[Kent Brockman]

Holy shit, my sides

 

[POBT]

Only if it what we give up isn't too much.

Exactly the same for us. We're faced with giving up Aish, a player we hold in high regard. Why would we let him go just because you can't or won't offer him more?

Your club has no intention of paying full price for Aish. You look at the circumstances and think "we can **** with Brisbane here". You want a bargain - a player you nearly spent pick 6 on two years ago for a lot less value.

But the supposed strength of the Collingwood bargaining position only exists if Brisbane feels duty bound to accept a consolation prize. If we don't, the parties are on equal footing and it is up to Collingwood to do something to convince us to let Aish go. If you can't or won't, you probably need to be honest with Aish and let him know that you aren't prepared to put your money where your mouth is....that you want him but only if you can get him on the cheap.

There is a paradigm shift here. The destination club only has power if the departure club is desperate to get some value in return.

 

[ClaytonM]

Why Collingwood would not the Hawks or tigers be a big enough Melbourne club for him to go too , if that's what he wants ! Both could give way more than those horrid pies

Oh unless Eddie Is offering incentives ??? You gotta wonder !

Buckley as coach, his hero growing up.

Best resourced club in the land.

ANZAC Day

Queens Birthday

70,000-80,000 fans at the G every second or third week

Pendlebury.

Just t start

 

[Schraderbrau]

There is a paradigm shift here. The destination club only has power if the departure club is desperate to get some value in return.

Highly doubt any club is going to offer anything more than what Collingwood does or anything near what Brisbane are demanding. I don't think two picks in the 20's is a bargain (which is my guess of what our best offer is). We traded Wellingham who was in his early 20's and a quality player in a premiership team for less than that. What Brisbane are demanding is unacceptable because we can't provide it. If their not willing to come to a compromise then they suffer the consequences of losing Aish - not us, we don't lose anything.

The paradigm shift is that the feeder club, out of desperation, has adopted a self destructive strategy that makes little sense at all. That's fine, Collingwood doesn't get punished by this. Neither does Aish who will probably still end up in Melbourne somewhere on a pretty hefty contract even if it is for Carlton. Aish would be useful for us but is not an urgent priority and by the looks of things isn't a priority for anyone. Brisbane are seriously overrating him as a player atm. It's not like he is Treloar where the threat of the draft carries a lot weight.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Buckley as coach, his hero growing up.

Best resourced club in the land.

ANZAC Day

Queens Birthday

70,000-80,000 fans at the G every second or third week

Pendlebury.

Just t start

I suspect that if Hawthorn or Richmond were genuinely interested and offered a good deal he'd accept. It sounds like he wants to play in Melbourne, the fact he chose Collingwood isn't that big a deal. What's more important is the lack of interest other clubs have shown in him and the fact that even if they did, I don't think any Victorian clubs will be willing to part with what Brisbane want for him.

 

[BangyBangy]

I suspect that if Hawthorn or Richmond were genuinely interested and offered a good deal he'd accept. It sounds like he wants to play in Melbourne, the fact he chose Collingwood isn't that big a deal. What's more important is the lack of interest other clubs have shown in him and the fact that even if they did, I don't think any Victorian clubs will be willing to part with what Brisbane want for him.

To be fair. He only entered the market on Thursday

 

[ClaytonM]

I think it works kinda like this...

Kids nominate for the national draft knowing that they could go anywhere. That's what they sign up for. And during the draft interviews and the combine, the clubs interview the kids and they try to suss out which of those kids are going to settle at their club, and in some cases that means trying to assess the Go home factor.

Most of those kids will say "I just want the chance to play at the top level, I'll come to Brisbane/ Sydney/ GC".*

Some may actually mean it but a goodly portion of those I think we can agree probably say that to be drafted as high as possible and having been told by their managers "Two years, then you can go where you want"

Leigh's stance, Brisbane's stance, destroys that.

When a manager says, "look just do your two years in Brisbane and then declare your club", there won't be any guarantees any more.

Kids will either have to be more honest, and really try to settle, or they will watch their draft stocks slide.

The AFL may also have to look at the draft, and also the base contracts. A two year base contract not only gives very little time to sell yourself to a player and get them settled in, it also can see the second year mired in speculation.

Either way, I think there are benefits to this stance. It's not against Aish, It's not against Collingwood, it just is for Brisbane


*Des Headland was always a special case.

But Aish was always going to go top 10 in his draft. What did it matter to him if it was 6,7,8,9 or 10. If he truly didn't want to go to the Lions I think he would have said at the time. Aish was no desperate kid just hoping to get drafted. He could be honest with all clubs about his desires.

 

[ClaytonM]

I suspect that if Hawthorn or Richmond were genuinely interested and offered a good deal he'd accept. It sounds like he wants to play in Melbourne, the fact he chose Collingwood isn't that big a deal. What's more important is the lack of interest other clubs have shown in him and the fact that even if they did, I don't think any Victorian clubs will be willing to part with what Brisbane want for him.

So clearly based on market demand, Lions have overestimated Aish's value if the interest isn't there from other clubs.

 

[Schraderbrau]

To be fair. He only entered the market on Thursday

Officially he entered the market on Thursday, I'm reliably informed that unofficially he made himself available after round 1

 

[dlanod]

The paradigm shift is that the feeder club, out of desperation, has adopted a self destructive strategy that makes little sense at all. That's fine, Collingwood doesn't get punished by this. Neither does Aish who will probably still end up in Melbourne somewhere on a pretty hefty contract even if it is for Carlton. Aish would be useful for us but is not an urgent priority and by the looks of things isn't a priority for anyone. Brisbane are seriously overrating him as a player atm. It's not like he is Treloar where the threat of the draft carries a lot weight.

Poor old Brisbane. Missing out on a second rounder plus some guy in a position we've already got depth. And alas, the Collingwood supporters who can't see why that's not incredibly tempting!

 

[BangyBangy]

Officially entered the market on Thursday, I'm reliably informed that unofficially he made himself available after round 1

2014

 

[BangyBangy]

Officially entered the market on Thursday, I'm reliably informed that unofficially he made himself available after round 1

When contract negotiations went beyond the end of the preseason a lot here, myself included assumed he was gone, and hence we are now pretty detached from the whole thing. If the club get what they deem is fair, all well & good, if not he walks & we get zip but do the whole line in the sand thing (which I doubt will happen), all well & good too. Win win. Though, I doubt this is the first time this has been said on this thread. It's the James Aish thread merry go round.

 

[Nunez]

So clearly based on market demand, Lions have overestimated Aish's value if the interest isn't there from other clubs.

The Hawks are interested, that much is pretty much guaranteed.

 

[chopperduck]

I dont understand why Pies supporters are in here trying to convince us that we are shooting ourselves in the foot. For 1, we dont make the decisions. 2, we dont care what you think. Aish has every right to ask for a trade, and we have every right to get what we deem fair value. If you cant come up with that, it isnt our problem, it is your problem as well as Aish's.

Just because someone asks to be traded, doesnt mèan that has to be done at whatever price you can afford. We've made our position clear, we wont continue to be walked over by draftees leaving after 2 years. We keep losing out every time this happens. Those pointing out why we aren't making a big deal about Redden, it is because we got some value from him on field while he was here, and the return in a trade will at least cover the original cost.

We can afford to lose Aish for nothing and it wont matter. We will still get what we want this draft and trade period without a couple of extra 2nd round picks.

 

[M Malice]

The Hawks are interested, that much is pretty much guaranteed.

hawks interested? aish for anderson and swap of later picks. bonus doesnt get to collingwood.

 

[mpal6]

To be honest I barely know who he is. For me it is more about the refusing to trade stance. I just don't think it is the right way to go but certainly respect your right to support your club's stand.

stopped reading there

 

[Nunez]

hawks interested? aish for anderson and swap of later picks. bonus doesnt get to collingwood.

Tbh if we trade Aish, I can only see him ending up as a Hawk.

 

[CarterS]

Highly doubt any club is going to offer anything more than what Collingwood does or anything near what Brisbane are demanding. I don't think two picks in the 20's is a bargain (which is my guess of what our best offer is). We traded Wellingham who was in his early 20's and a quality player in a premiership team for less than that. What Brisbane are demanding is unacceptable because we can't provide it. If their not willing to come to a compromise then they suffer the consequences of losing Aish - not us, we don't lose anything.

The paradigm shift is that the feeder club, out of desperation, has adopted a self destructive strategy that makes little sense at all. That's fine, Collingwood doesn't get punished by this. Neither does Aish who will probably still end up in Melbourne somewhere on a pretty hefty contract even if it is for Carlton. Aish would be useful for us but is not an urgent priority and by the looks of things isn't a priority for anyone. Brisbane are seriously overrating him as a player atm. It's not like he is Treloar where the threat of the draft carries a lot weight.

For a side who as you describe appear to be in the superior negotiating position you seem very passionaite about the situation; unacceptable, desperate, self destructive, makes little sense, surely if you aren't concerned about the outcome and don't consider it an urgent priority you wouldn't need to use such strong language to describe our clubs actions.

 

[thetruth000001]

What if Aish says I'm not playing for anyone but collingwood?
AFL must change the rules 3 years minimum and incentives for players who stay

 

[DrDavoren]

Lethal's posture actually sets up both teams to save a little face, which is ultimately what both teams want.

But it requires Collingwood to come to the party with a GOOD trade offer. Not the bare minimum.

Then Brisbane fans can say "finally, we got properly compensated for a wantaway kid, unlike 2 years ago.. now players and clubs know we aren't just a feeder club."

And Pies cans say say "how awesome are we... I thought Brisso said they weren't trading him under any circumstances... onya Dekka!"

Remarkably similar to the Beams trade really. Including all the ultimately unnecessary Bigfooty consternation. Glad we have risen above and turned this into a party thread

Good post hope both parties come to a suitable arrangement.
Definitley feel for you guys with the outgoing players over the last few years.
Good luck this trade period!

 

[spotthedog1]

I just don't think anyone has satisfactorily explained why letting a player go for nothing is better than getting compensation for him - especially something like two early second round picks which is pretty decent.

On the GH5, we lost over 3000 points (what we received vs what we cost - all players being <3 yrs service, that is probably the most accurate measure).
3000 points is worth Pick 1.
That means that on average, we lost 600 points on EACH trade.

Aish cost pick 7 - 1,644 points. If we get back Collingwood's 2nd round pick (26), that is 729 points - effectively losing pick 20.

The precedent here is that players have in the past got to the end of their 2 year contract and demanded a trade. Aish knows the history, and has done exactly the same. Every time this happens to us, we average a loss of an early 2nd round pick.

Because of this, the board have determined that it now club policy not to trade players with =< 2 years service. Redden is going to be traded because he has given >2 years service. Aish has not. Aish will most likely be made an example for this. Lethal has stated this, and deliberately said that it is nothing against James, but simply that the club has to make a stand.

So if we accept a 2nd rounder for Aish, we lose 800 points. If we accept nothing for Aish, we lose 1600 points. That means that in order for it to be worth our time, our hardline stance has to dissuade ONE future player from requesting a trade after two years.

Seems like a good gamble to me.

 

[chopperduck]

What if Aish says I'm not playing for anyone but collingwood?
AFL must change the rules 3 years minimum and incentives for players who stay

Id like to see the AFL take away the draft option until they have spent x amount of years in the AFL. Puts the pressure back on clubs to get a trade done, and pay fair value being they cant walk to the draft where it is likely they get to where they want. Even if AFL has to mediate more. If the player really wants to leave to go home they can sit out 12 months and re-enter the draft the following year.

Open up FA to compensate, but also have incentives for players to stay, long service bonus that remain outside the cap.