Rumour GFC 2016 Player Trading, Drafting, FA, Rumours, and Wish lists.

[Turbocat]

And it's always the same bloke, it's not the Silly Season, it's the Duncan Season.

Is that Duncan season or Duck season ?



So Politically incorrect these days but it still makes me laugh.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

But Clark is also in the mix so he isn't even first cab off the rank so I think he will go and who could blame him, they all play roughly the same position.

I think when they traded Walker they were implicity deciding to keep Vardy for at least another couple of years but I do get why Vardy might want to go.

All I was saying is that if he was to be traded we would trade in another ruck even if it was just a cheap backup, I can't see that when we are in premiership contention and given the ruck issues we have had the past few years that we would go into a full year with only 2 specialist rucks on the list.

 

[Turbocat]

Personally I could live with trading out Vardy and using that pick to get Troy Menzel across from Adelaide.

AND get him playing consistently to the standard he is capable of..

well thats one way to go... They say to sell high and buy low... but Vardy to Menzel.. would almost like selling low and buying lower.. I doubt the Crows would trade him so quickly.

 

[Lana]

I think when they traded Walker they were implicity deciding to keep Vardy for at least another couple of years but I do get why Vardy might want to go.

All I was saying is that if he was to be traded we would trade in another ruck even if it was just a cheap backup, I can't see that when we are in premiership contention and given the ruck issues we have had the past few years that we would go into a full year with only 2 specialist rucks on the list.

I don't think we had a lot of say in the matter when Walker went to Brisbane

 

[catempire]

The reality is I think the worries about it are overblown. There will be maybe 5 players per year I reckon move this way and most of them will be fringe players-for example all Port's rucks are injured, they might trade in someone like Witts who isn't getting games at Collingwood-Witts can get more games and if he goes on a loan deal it means he can show his wares to clubs for the end of season trade period, or if he goes permanently he might get more opportunities and Collingwood gets some form of pick.

The reality is most clubs are not going to have 500-600k sitting spare in the cap each year that allows them to trade in a top player, as it's not practical to have that much spare in your cap just in case in someone becomes available, so it will be mostly fringe players moving on low money to get more gametime.

100% agree.

 

[Turbocat]

If we trade Vardy (say for a 3rd rounder) we would need to use that pick to get in a backup ruck anyway-couldn't risk going into 2017 with Smith and Stanley the only frontline rucks.

As for Troy I just think it's a case of people wanting to reuinte the brothers, I can't see why he would move back to Victoria a year after he went home.

I feel we do have a need to add x factor goal nous.. the Menzel difference to our side for lack of a better descriptor.. but I agree this is more about the story than the need.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I don't think we had a lot of say in the matter when Walker went to Brisbane

No I get that, realistically he probably would have ended up there in the PSD. All I was saying was that when Walker went, that implicity ended the likelihood the club would offer Vardy up for trade, as Clark is very uncertain with his injury history and we need a mid aged key forward for when Clark and Hawkins are post 30 anyway, and they are very hard to get with late picks (which is what we usually have). But Vardy himself wanting to go is different although I would be surprised if another club was that interested in him.

If he does go I certainly forsee us getting in another tall, particularly a ruck, although with lateish picks it may be only more a backup player rather than a very good quality one that we are able to get.

 

[Turbocat]

The reality is I think the worries about it are overblown. There will be maybe 5 players per year I reckon move this way and most of them will be fringe players-for example all Port's rucks are injured, they might trade in someone like Witts who isn't getting games at Collingwood-Witts can get more games and if he goes on a loan deal it means he can show his wares to clubs for the end of season trade period, or if he goes permanently he might get more opportunities and Collingwood gets some form of pick.

The reality is most clubs are not going to have 500-600k sitting spare in the cap each year that allows them to trade in a top player, as it's not practical to have that much spare in your cap just in case in someone becomes available, so it will be mostly fringe players moving on low money to get more gametime.

An obvious example... Gary ..what about coming back to Geelong , top the side off and we are on top ..GC are rebuilding...Yes no worries but I want the same contract.

So perhaps when if a player just happens to be in last year of contract that was front loaded and this would be less likely these days due to RFA... Its possible that it may develop into a gun player dynamic like FA has but it would be far harder. Its more about immediate needs , imo. Its more about utilising your list to trade for current weakness. Imagine this year ... we planed for Thurlow , trading done , drafting done..then he goes down... and we had an ongoing issue. Why not try to fix the hole. Like us in 2013. I wonder if this was in we would have added a ruck? Hamc was a non event. We mis the GF because of it imo.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I thought that only happens if we have mid season trading?..

I think that there would plus and minus.. and like FA it would probably be a little different to how it works than anticipated. Will it favour high sides? Will it give more power in a trade to lower clubs because the higher clubs want a player and want him now? Players being contracted mean they must agree but does it gives more hand back to clubs?How does it work with caps trading 2 players in and out and different stages of their contract payment?
There would be a heap to think and study before introduction and once in im sure a few oddities would show up. But like FA I see this as a progression towards a modern sports model. Players similar to Danger that have basically made their mind up and have to be dishonest and sit there with a grin on the face. Look at what happen to Henderson. If player and club basically know its over , why prolong ?

Hendo is a good example though-even if he wanted to come to Geelong early it's unlikely we could have fit him in the cap mid season (and he would be on quite good money) unless another player of ours wanted a move elsewhere mid season (for example Walker going to Brisbane early) to free up the cap room for it, in which case it isn't much difference from end of season trading. I agree with whoever posted that the only real negative of mid season trades is how much more the media will hype up the rumour mill about who is going where (you can see this in the NRL with their in season trading) but that's unavoidable the way the media cycle is thesedays I think.

 

[dazbroncos]

I'm not saying he won't ever get delisted, I am just saying no way it will be this year. They are not going to delist him and pay out his contract 12 months after they brought him in. They will give him time to see if he makes it or not.

Agreed...

You dont pay over the market rate as he was under contract to then boot him 12 months later - even if the performances are not to par.

I also thought that he was hurt leaving the Blues so that may not have helped his start at AFC.

Regardless, given the issues the AFC have had retaining players of late, IMO, they will keep Tmenz at least for 2017.

Go Catters

 

[cats_09]

I see one comment where Nick Bowen thinks "they're likely to". Nothing at all from the club.

Exactly - it reads like the extent of the research was:

1: who is out of contract at seasons end
2: are they from WA
3: if yes to both it obviously means, 1 + 2 = Fremantle will be interested

 

[dazbroncos]

Exactly - it reads like the extent of the research was:

1: who is out of contract at seasons end
2: are they from WA
3: if yes to both it obviously means, 1 + 2 = Fremantle will be interested

Correct.. and its unlikely he knows they passed on him 3 times in his draft year that left an unsavory taste...

BS meter is getting busy...

Go Catters

 

[Turbocat]

Hendo is a good example though-even if he wanted to come to Geelong early it's unlikely we could have fit him in the cap mid season (and he would be on quite good money) unless another player of ours wanted a move elsewhere mid season (for example Walker going to Brisbane early) to free up the cap room for it, in which case it isn't much difference from end of season trading. I agree with whoever posted that the only real negative of mid season trades is how much more the media will hype up the rumour mill about who is going where (you can see this in the NRL with their in season trading) but that's unavoidable the way the media cycle is thesedays I think.

As I said it has to be worked out... but basically a method of play now , pay later could be developed.. It must have example in other codes? Hasn't a player just gone to Storm midseason..don't they have a cap? The Henderson trade was a player for pick trade so in this case..perhaps Carlton would have been happy to have his money in their cap for the remainder of the year as part of the deal? After all part of the issue was avoiding injury.

As to the media... I think it happens no matter what. Danger was talked about for years. McCarthy , Prestia, OMerea , Cloke etc..are all getting talked about anyway..and in some sense building tension.

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

Much better option than a mid season draft is to increase the lists Enright has an article in today's advertiser talking about increasing the lists to 50 players and removing the rookie list. If teams have bigger lists it should mean with decent management that aren't caught short of players in position. They won't always be able to replace a player with the same amount of skill. But it allows for the evenness of the comp to remain while giving clubs who have good list management the edge they deserve.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Much better option than a mid season draft is to increase the lists Enright has an article in today's advertiser talking about increasing the lists to 50 players and removing the rookie list. If teams have bigger lists it should mean with decent management that aren't caught short of players in position. They won't always be able to replace a player with the same amount of skill. But it allows for the evenness of the comp to remain while giving clubs who have good list management the edge they deserve.

And all the club treasurers just had heart attacks.

 

[Lana]

Much better option than a mid season draft is to increase the lists Enright has an article in today's advertiser talking about increasing the lists to 50 players and removing the rookie list. If teams have bigger lists it should mean with decent management that aren't caught short of players in position. They won't always be able to replace a player with the same amount of skill. But it allows for the evenness of the comp to remain while giving clubs who have good list management the edge they deserve.

That's a lot of guys not getting opportunities at AFL level.

 

[Baudolino]

"The intention of the idea is sound."

What he didn't like, most understandably, was a competitor getting a leg-up to become a premiership threat when they weren't before.

"I don't like it at first glance. But happy for the industry to work it through and maybe it can be beneficial for the game.

Those quotes taken out of context and used on their own paint an inaccurate picture of the interview. He was clearly against it and cited a number of reasons as to why.

His in-principle aversion to not being instantly dismissive of radical ideas - his awareness of the need, in other words, to be open-minded about the potential for changes one doesn't like to have some merit - can't be taken as proof of his endorsement of a mid-season trade period.

 

[Baudolino]

The reality is I think the worries about it are overblown. There will be maybe 5 players per year I reckon move this way and most of them will be fringe players-for example all Port's rucks are injured, they might trade in someone like Witts who isn't getting games at Collingwood-Witts can get more games and if he goes on a loan deal it means he can show his wares to clubs for the end of season trade period, or if he goes permanently he might get more opportunities and Collingwood gets some form of pick.

The reality is most clubs are not going to have 500-600k sitting spare in the cap each year that allows them to trade in a top player, as it's not practical to have that much spare in your cap just in case in someone becomes available, so it will be mostly fringe players moving on low money to get more gametime.

First of all, I disagree that the worries are overblown.

Secondly, if I grant you your premise that the impact of the mid-season trade period will be negligible in football terms, then surely at that point it's a redundant concept as there's no point putting it in place anyway? What possible incentive would there be to put in a place a radically different system that, for whatever reason, has only minor effect on club lists, when that self-same system will have such a profound, negative effect on the media landscape and force us to put up with endless speculation and a year-long silly season?

 

[catempire]

Those quotes taken out of context and used on their own paint an inaccurate picture of the interview. He was clearly against it and cited a number of reasons as to why.

His in-principle aversion to not being instantly dismissive of radical ideas - his awareness of the need, in other words, to be open-minded about the potential for changes one doesn't like to have some merit - can't be taken as proof of his endorsement of a mid-season trade period.

That's garbage. I have all the context and I never said he endorsed it. Clearly he would rather not have it than have it but the quotes I gave suggest he is pragmatic, not vehemently opposed.

I included the reason he said he didn't like it - he didn't want a non-competitor becoming one through this mechanism. Otherwise he was open to the idea and could see why it was being discussed.

Rohan Connelly was the one vehemently against it.

 

[vinum coupe]

Troy is younger, just as talented if not more and would be a great add to our forward line alongside his brother. Would think it is only his attitude and work ethic holding him back. Would that be easier to fix than Vardy's body issues?

I've always thought Troy was a complete w***er / figjam.
That was kind of backed up by dan suggesting the move to the crows might straighten him out (or words to that effect)

Then he turns up to Adelaide lacking fitness that their standard demands and he can't get out of the sanfl.
Huge, huge pass in my opinion.


And.....he is nowhere near a talented as dan. Not in the same postcode.

 

[Baudolino]

That's garbage. I included the reason he said he didn't like it - he didn't want a non-competitor becoming one through this mechanism. Otherwise he was open to the idea and could see why it was being discussed. Rohan Connelly was the one vehemently against it.

I've already acknowledged that, in-principle, he was open to the idea and could see why it was being discussed. But he said he thought it was "unworkable because of the salary cap implications" and pointed out that "comparisons to the past [in terms of mid-season trades] don't really work because of the complexity of the salary cap and the severity of the equalisation measures".

Are you really going to disagree that he doesn't like the idea based on his philosophical stance of being open to any and all proposals? He explicitly said - and this is a verbatim quote here - "I don't like it". Yes, he immediately qualified that with an explication of his openness to the concept and his willingness to consider that it could have merit, but he still said that he didn't like it, which was the point I was making in the first place. I mean, really, when the assertion being put forward is "Chris Scott doesn't like the idea" and audio exists of him "I don't like it", what more evidence could you possibly want?

 

[Baudolino]

And.....he is nowhere near a talented as dan. Not in the same postcode.

What makes you say that? Whenever I've watched him he's always struck me as an enormous talent with huge potential, just extremely raw.

 

[supahoops]

I've always thought Troy was a complete ****** / figjam.
That was kind of backed up by dan suggesting the move to the crows might straighten him out (or words to that effect)

Then he turns up to Adelaide lacking fitness that their standard demands and he can't get out of the sanfl.
Huge, huge pass in my opinion.


And.....he is nowhere near a talented as dan. Not in the same postcode.

A quick look at TM's highlights package wouldn't be too dissimilar to Dan's. Has the potential to be as good IMO. Maybe a second kick up the arse and a reunion with his brother could do the trick.

 

[catempire]

I've already acknowledged that, in-principle, he was open to the idea and could see why it was being discussed. But he said he thought it was "unworkable because of the salary cap implications" and pointed out that "comparisons to the past [in terms of mid-season trades] don't really work because of the complexity of the salary cap and the severity of the equalisation measures".

Are you really going to disagree that he doesn't like the idea based on his philosophical stance of being open to any and all proposals? He explicitly said - and this is a verbatim quote here - "I don't like it". Yes, he immediately qualified that with an explication of his openness to the concept and his willingness to consider that it could have merit, but he still said that he didn't like it, which was the point I was making in the first place. I mean, really, when the assertion being put forward is "Chris Scott doesn't like the idea" and audio exists of him "I don't like it", what more evidence could you possibly want?

Huh? What part of "Clearly he would rather not have it than have it" was unclear to you? I never said otherwise.

 

[Baudolino]

Huh? What part of "Clearly he would rather not have it than have it" was unclear to you? I never said otherwise.

I replied to your initial post before you edited in that clarification. I simply didn't see it.