List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016

[whiskeytown]

The aim of trading is to improve our list right? ...

Agree, but in fairness if a player wants to leave... It's a case of getting the best of what we can for him.

Now given we wouldnt get their second round pick, it might come down to freos third round pick, likely to be in the late 30s... We could find a gem there or perhaps Langdon is a better bet than having that pick...?

Compare E. Langdon to Goodyear, who was a pick in the late 30s in his year, and Langdon has already shown more whilst offering speed and reputedly good disposal - more of which we need. And as Bucks rates his brother highly in ability and temperament, then he may believe that young Langdon will show similar qualities.

However if west coast show interest, or Williams nominates them... a better deal might be able to be done pick wise (maybe their 2nd round pick around the late 20s), but not sure what they will be able to give us talent wise that's better than E. Langdon..

 

[Apex36]

Just have to disagree. He's a Kreuzer all over.

I don't get it. Is it Kruezers crapness as a legitimate forward compared to Wrights obvious talent in that position that makes you think they're similar?

 

[Soups]

Willie Rioli as a small forward would be a good gamble I reckon. Lost 16 kgs and is running around like a little jet. Kicked 5 in the SANFL on the weekend and is getting some talk ups around the traps as you would expect with a last name as Rioli.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Willie Rioli as a small forward would be a good gamble I reckon. Lost 16 kgs and is running around like a little jet. Kicked 5 in the SANFL on the weekend and is getting some talk ups around the traps as you would expect with a last name as Rioli.

Another is Ahmed Saad, kicked 41 from 13 games for Coburg who are struggling..

Fair effort.

 

[Soups]

Another is Ahmed Saad, kicked 41 from 13 games for Coburg who are struggling..

Fair effort.

There are definitely some good small forward options this year not only in the leagues but in the under 18's also.

 

[IQ3]

I'd love Michael Barlow but I worry that our premiership window is a bit far away for him to be properly utilised

 

[TradeDraft]

What's Ed Langdon worth in comparison to say Marley Williams? Don't know much about him to be honest.

I do rate Marley, but you'd have to say Ramsay and Sinclair are both past him... when they're on the park.

Be about a Straight Swap

 

[Apex36]

Be about a Straight Swap

I'd hope not. Langdon has played 2 good games in his entire career, while Williams was looking like AA material last year.

 

[Kilmo]

Wasn't overly keen on Wright on draft night and I'm still not. I don't believe he's what we need in our set up because, IMO, we get a bit big with him, Moore and Cox in the line up (I think Cox will be a lock when fit and American politicians aren't in town in 2017). Wright's going to be a ripper, but I don't think he's for us. Either way I'm just glad I've seen enough of him to know he's as much a ruckman as Witts is a forward lol.

What I believe we need is a complimentary KPF like Gunston work works up the field creating space in behind. The three on that front that stand out to me were/ are M McGovern, McCarthy and Thomlinson. That's why I'm still a little shitty we went with Freeman in 2013, why we should be into Thomlinson this year and I'd be sniffing around McGovern.

That's the thing, it's not like it's a one off going for a mid in the top 10 instead of a KPF, it's basically happened four times in the past four years.
Ramsay (I know he's not a mid or top 10) over Stewart, Freeman (9) over McCarthy, De Goey (5) over Wright, then arguably Treloar (7 and ?) over Weideman (and ?).

It's hard to argue that we shouldn't have picked up at least one more KPF than we did while we had the currency. Now we essentially have Moore and that's it for the foreseeable future.

 

[Soups]

I'd hope not. Langdon has played 2 good games in his entire career, while Williams was looking like AA material last year.

Agreed. I would be annoyed if we didn't get a pick upgrade too.

 

[Apex36]

That's the thing, it's not like it's a one off going for a mid instead of a KPF, it's basically happened four times in the past four years, with three of those picks being in the top 10.
Ramsay over Stewart, Freeman over McCarthy, De Goey over Wright, then arguably Treloar over Weideman (and?).

It's hard to argue that we shouldn't have picked up at least one more KPF than we did while we had the currency. Now we essentially have Moore and that's it for the foreseeable future.

^This. For all the talk of rebuilding, we seem to have largely ignored our key forwards over the past 4-5 years, bizarrely relying on the development of late picks like Gault (bust) and Marsh (turned in to a defender after failing miserably forward) and Cox instead of grabbing a genuinely good prospect to partner up with Moore. We're lucky that Cox came on so well this year and White's form improved, because the club would be looking mighty silly right now if they hadn't. As silly as Essendon were not getting support for Daniher.

 

[jmac70]

^This. For all the talk of rebuilding, we seem to have largely ignored our key forwards over the past 4-5 years, bizarrely relying on the development of late picks like Gault (bust) and Marsh (turned in to a defender after failing miserably forward) and Cox instead of grabbing a genuinely good prospect to partner up with Moore. We're lucky that Cox came on so well this year and White's form improved, because the club would be looking mighty silly right now if they hadn't. As silly as Essendon were not getting support for Daniher.

I think the game is moving away from traditional key forwards. I expect this to be proven on Friday night.

 

[Apex36]

I think the game is moving away from traditional key forwards. I expect this to be proven on Friday night.

Garbage. There are more promising young key forwards in the game now than any time I can remember in the last 10-15 years.
Lynch
Hogan
Cameron
Moore
Daniher
Boyd
McCartin
McCarthy
Patton
Wright

And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I've missed at least 2 or 3 more.

Edit:
Schache
Hipwood
McGovern (Adelaide version)
Weideman doing well at Casey and debuting this week.

 

[jmac70]

Garbage. There are more promising young key forwards in the game now than any time I can remember in the last 10-15 years.
Lynch
Hogan
Cameron
Moore
Daniher
Boyd
McCartin
McCarthy
Patton
Wright

And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I've missed at least 2 or 3 more.

Edit:
Schache
Hipwood
McGovern (Adelaide version)
Weideman doing well at Casey and debuting this week.

And how many teams are in the comp?

 

[Kilmo]

Garbage. There are more promising young key forwards in the game now than any time I can remember in the last 10-15 years.
Lynch
Hogan
Cameron
Moore
Daniher
Boyd
McCartin
McCarthy
Patton
Wright

And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I've missed at least 2 or 3 more.

Edit:
Schache
Hipwood
McGovern (Adelaide version)
Weideman doing well at Casey and debuting this week.

I hope some of them can play in the midfield / backline because they are all getting traded to Collingwood in the off season

 

[Apex36]

And how many teams are in the comp?

What's your point? Not every team has a genuine star or star in the making key forward on their list, they've always been as rare as hens teeth. To have as many genuine top quality prospects coming through at the same time is amazing given you think that key forwards are going out of vogue. Out of curiosity, when was the last time a non-KPF won the Coleman medal?

 

[jmac70]

What's your point? Not every team has a genuine star or star in the making key forward on their list, they've always been as rare as hens teeth. To have as many genuine top quality prospects coming through at the same time is amazing given you think that key forwards are going out of vogue. Out of curiosity, when was the last time a non-KPF won the Coleman medal?

What I'm saying is that we don't need more key position forwards. We have a genuine talent in Moore along with a host of other talls. What we do need is players who can hit targets under pressure, something Hawthorn have an abundance of. A forward line with Moore, Fasolo and Elliott will be more than adequate.

In fact I would go so far as to suggest that we have too many talls.

 

[Apex36]

What I'm saying is that we don't need more key position forwards. We have a genuine talent in Moore along with a host of other talls. What we do need is players who can hit targets under pressure, something Hawthorn have an abundance of. A forward line with Moore, Fasolo and Elliott will be more than adequate.

In fact I would go so far as to suggest that we have too many talls.

A host? Aside from Moore we have Cloke, who is ageing, out of form and may not even be at the club next year, White, who has been ok this year, but hardly inspiring with around 1.5 goals a game, who is also getting older, Cox, who looks like a good prospect, but is in his mid 20's already, and Gault, who will be delisted at years end. A host? Hell, we'll be lucky to have 3 next year unless we recruit one more, which means we'll have no young key forwards developing to take over from our older talls in Cloke and White. The notion that we have enough, or too many key forwards is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[nahnah]

What I'm saying is that we don't need more key position forwards. We have a genuine talent in Moore along with a host of other talls. What we do need is players who can hit targets under pressure, something Hawthorn have an abundance of. A forward line with Moore, Fasolo and Elliott will be more than adequate.

In fact I would go so far as to suggest that we have too many talls.

What we really need is a player that can deliver the ball and provide a target like a Gunston or Adelaide's Lynch. Howe is too valuable down back to ever be this player.

 

[Kappa]

I think the game is moving away from traditional key forwards. I expect this to be proven on Friday
night.

Pretty much every AFL team strongly disagrees with you...

 

[ottoman]

I think Grundy was a good pick up but in the long term Wright will be the better ruckman. (I'm looking at you Apex)

 

[nahnah]

Is it just me or is it really weird the way the woman that does team sheet said 'he is joined in the team by the man that will likely crumb for him, Jarryd Blair'

Just odd to me.

 

[sr36]

I think the key difference here is that one of them (Wright) looks a genuine star in the role he currently fills (forward) and the other (JDG) looks a plodder in the role he currently fills (forward).

It's just a given that JDG will move through the midfield with time amd will thrive when he does, but there's no reason whatsoever to throw Wright through the ruck because he's just not that good in the role. The funny thing is your comparison would work if Wright was being played in the ruck currently.

My difference in opinion is that I don't see him becoming a genuine star as a forward. No ground level attributes. Not enough pace to consistently get seperation. In marking contests his body work doesn't look likely to become star worthy. I don't see how he will get enough of the footy, if lined up against the opposition's best tall defender, to become close to being a star. I just reckon he will play number 2 ruck for the next 5 years, become a significantly better version of David Hale, and gradually develop into a number one ruckman.

 

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Pretty much every AFL team strongly disagrees with you...

Except the ladder leaders. Hawthorn. 5 top goal scorers this year. Gunston, Breust, Rioli, Puopolo, Sicily. Not a giant amongst them. They seem to score alright....don't they?

 

[jmac70]

A host? Aside from Moore we have Cloke, who is ageing, out of form and may not even be at the club next year, White, who has been ok this year, but hardly inspiring with around 1.5 goals a game, who is also getting older, Cox, who looks like a good prospect, but is in his mid 20's already, and Gault, who will be delisted at years end. A host? Hell, we'll be lucky to have 3 next year unless we recruit one more, which means we'll have no young key forwards developing to take over from our older talls in Cloke and White. The notion that we have enough, or too many key forwards is absolutely ludicrous.

We also have Reid, Howe, Keeffe, Marsh and Witts.

Your idea of a key forward differs to mine I think. I see a key forward as someone who kicks goals. For example, our best key forward at the moment is Fasolo. What we need to do is develop players who can hit field targets by foot and hand. We need to move away from this obsession with contested footy and actually concentrating on improving our skills.