List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016

[Baird]

Can just see it now.

Bulldogs swap Boyd for Hurley and Essendon's pick 19 (pick only thrown in based on age, etc.)

Dogs trade us Pick 19 (from the dons) for Cloke. We ask for steak knives and end up with Jong.

Dons get their forward line set for the next ten years (Danniher/Boyd), Bulldogs have a serious tilt at the flag for a year or two (Cloke/Crameri), and the pies stagnate.

Essendon wouldn't trade pick 19 alone for Boyd, let alone throwing Hurley in their too.

 

[Ketchup]

Can just see it now.

Bulldogs swap Boyd for Hurley and Essendon's pick 19 (pick only thrown in based on age, etc.)

Dogs trade us Pick 19 (from the dons) for Cloke. We ask for steak knives and end up with Jong.

Dons get their forward line set for the next ten years (Danniher/Boyd), Bulldogs have a serious tilt at the flag for a year or two (Cloke/Crameri), and the pies stagnate.

Pick 19 would be a good result for cloke.

 

[Old Spice]

Can just see it now.

Bulldogs swap Boyd for Hurley and Essendon's pick 19 (pick only thrown in based on age, etc.)

Dogs trade us Pick 19 (from the dons) for Cloke. We ask for steak knives and end up with Jong.

Dons get their forward line set for the next ten years (Danniher/Boyd), Bulldogs have a serious tilt at the flag for a year or two (Cloke/Crameri), and the pies stagnate.

That's a prospect that I think the Dogs and Essendon might go for. Not bad for us either I might add. Although swap Jong for Hrovat as per Snoop's suggestion.

 

[unplugged]

When I say stagnate I mean in the short term, and I'm not saying we necessary win nor lose. There's only so much Pick 19 and/or Jong would do to our team in the first 2-3 years. Then again, based on this year, losing Cloke wouldn't make a lot of difference either.

 

[TW Sherrin]

not interested in hrovat. seems a lazy footballer.

 

[Scodog10]

Sco - are you questioning the support the Club has given Marley over the years - many believe if not for the club he could be in jail for assault. Surely they have enough credits in the bank, and it's Marleys turn to repay the club.

I look forward to your rationale for why the club is at fault here.

Nope not in the slightest! I'm saying that the club don't want to trade him and that Marley is the one instigating things.

Why is it that you always take my posts as dumps on the club? We get things wrong and I call them out on that when it happens, but in regards to Marley there's no doubt we've gone above and beyond so it makes no sense for us to now want to trade him out...

 

[Snoop Dog]

A lot of people in here have fallen into the trap of expecting the world for our teams scraps.

I know it's hard and until it is all done and dusted is hard to determine, but some more objectivity is required.

Personally I don't think any players likely to be put up will get anymore than a 2nd rounder Witts, Cloke, Marley etc.

That's a tremendous result given where they are in their respective football careers and would allow us to chase decent talent in the draft.

Agree and hence I think the wisest thing to do is reference some recent trades for an indication. Before we start though let me say in such an even draft a couple of spots here and there arent going to matter as much as maybe previous years where there was a clear 'cliff point' in terms of talent. Alas,

Witts - the most like deals for him I can find are;

Tom Hickey went for pick 13 and some swapping of late picks. Remember Tom was barely in that side at the time.
Shaun Hampson went for pick 32 and was pretty well on the outer
Rhys Stanley went for pick 21. I think we were all surprised but its a good proxy
Sam Frost went for pick 23 and some swapping of late picks. Like Same not the same role but a young tall talent on the outer nonetheless.

Likely outcome - I am pretty bullish on this one. I think Collingwood might get into the first round with some swapping of late picks potentially. I am hopeful of a pick around 17-20 but realistically it might be 18-25. Equally think quite likely could form part of a Marchbank and / or WHE trade. Notwithstanding a few clubs are into him so that will drive price up.



Cloke - the proxies are best probably those older types that went;

Brian Lake went for pick 27
Joel Patfull went for pick 21
Bernie Vince went for pick 23. I think bernie went with 28 years under his belt and a few issues over his head.
Shane Mumford went for pick 35. Ultimtely more a money issue and Swans had to do right thing by him so probably unders for what he should have been.


Likely outcome - I would think a band of 20-25 for Travis would be about right and potentially a bit higher with swapping of selections.


Williams - the most like deals I can find are;

Jake Melksham went for pick 25
Curtly Hampton went for 2nd round 2016 pick which will be about 25 as well
Paul Seedsman went for pick 32
Matt Rosa went for pick 31
Shane Biggs went for pick 39

Likely Outcome - I reckon they are all reasonable proxies for a bloke who last year was flying albeit this year has struggled. I would think a pick around 35-40 is about right for Marley.

I would also add the following players as am pretty sure a few will be up and that CFC will be looking to take some picks in the 30-50 range and package them up to move there selections in the 20-30 range a bit higher. They will want to do that as they may be worried where the bids for Brown and Daicos will come. Ie they will most likely want at least one (maybe 2) selections before that is likely to happen.

Jack Frost - and i think his brother is a very good proxy but having said that it was a huge win for GWS. I would think something in the band of 30-50 about right for him.

Adam Oxley - Same would go for him. Personally like to see a good ball user who is a smart decision maker stay but we have a lot of his type.

Jarryd Blair - but nobody agrees with me on him so he stays but I reckon a pick around 35-45 about right.

Tim Broomhead - Again dont want him to go but previous trades suggest 22-35 range.

That would give us;

Witts - lets say 22
Cloke - lets say 25
2nd Round selection - 26
Williams - 37
Frost - 40
3rd Round selection - 44
Oxley - 45
4th Round selection - 62

I think Hine & Co will then look to get that pick 22 & 25 a bit higher by adding the 37, 40 and 44 to it and maybe even the 26. So for example;

22 & 26 might go for pick 10-15 (points system would get as high as 7 but unlikely to achieve that)
25 & 37 might go for pick 18 (points systems gets up close to 12 but again wont happen)

they would probably be confident that Daicos and Brown wont be bid on by then so the point from 40, 44, 45 and 62 used to pay for them and or take someone late that fills a gap.

So many ways it can go but a big driver will be getting picks above where they think the bids for Brown and Daicos will come.

Sorry that probably dragged on a bit ......

 

[frizzle]

Hurley & pick 19 for Boyd?
The guy on a fortune who hasn't done anything in the AFL yet?
Bombers would be getting absolutely done over in that trade.
If we got pick 19 alone for Cloke it would be a bargain. Wont get steak knives as well & I don't rate Jong.

 

[Stoods]

How many pages will we crack this year do you guys reckon

Last years trade talk thread cracked well over 1000 by memory

 

[No SPIN]

Nope not in the slightest! I'm saying that the club don't want to trade him and that Marley is the one instigating things.

Why is it that you always take my posts as dumps on the club? We get things wrong and I call them out on that when it happens, but in regards to Marley there's no doubt we've gone above and beyond so it makes no sense for us to now want to trade him out...

"What has marley williams done thats lead to the club wanting to trade him?"
Might want to switch that question around!

The bold above is what you responded to italicised post - the only interpretation to your posts is that the club has done something to Marley and he wants a trade.
Its very unambiguous to me.
How else can it be interpreted?

 

[Apex36]

How else can it be interpreted?

See my initial response? Pretty sure I'm not Scodog, and I interpreted it very differently to you. I think you're reading in to this too much.

 

[PicaBoo]

Agree and hence I think the wisest thing to do is reference some recent trades for an indication. Before we start though let me say in such an even draft a couple of spots here and there arent going to matter as much as maybe previous years where there was a clear 'cliff point' in terms of talent. Alas,

Witts - the most like deals for him I can find are;

Tom Hickey went for pick 13 and some swapping of late picks. Remember Tom was barely in that side at the time.
Shaun Hampson went for pick 32 and was pretty well on the outer
Rhys Stanley went for pick 21. I think we were all surprised but its a good proxy
Sam Frost went for pick 23 and some swapping of late picks. Like Same not the same role but a young tall talent on the outer nonetheless.

Likely outcome - I am pretty bullish on this one. I think Collingwood might get into the first round with some swapping of late picks potentially. I am hopeful of a pick around 17-20 but realistically it might be 18-25. Equally think quite likely could form part of a Marchbank and / or WHE trade. Notwithstanding a few clubs are into him so that will drive price up.



Cloke - the proxies are best probably those older types that went;

Brian Lake went for pick 27
Joel Patfull went for pick 21
Bernie Vince went for pick 23. I think bernie went with 28 years under his belt and a few issues over his head.
Shane Mumford went for pick 35. Ultimtely more a money issue and Swans had to do right thing by him so probably unders for what he should have been.


Likely outcome - I would think a band of 20-25 for Travis would be about right and potentially a bit higher with swapping of selections.


Williams - the most like deals I can find are;

Jake Melksham went for pick 25
Curtly Hampton went for 2nd round 2016 pick which will be about 25 as well
Paul Seedsman went for pick 32
Matt Rosa went for pick 31
Shane Biggs went for pick 39

Likely Outcome - I reckon they are all reasonable proxies for a bloke who last year was flying albeit this year has struggled. I would think a pick around 35-40 is about right for Marley.

I would also add the following players as am pretty sure a few will be up and that CFC will be looking to take some picks in the 30-50 range and package them up to move there selections in the 20-30 range a bit higher. They will want to do that as they may be worried where the bids for Brown and Daicos will come. Ie they will most likely want at least one (maybe 2) selections before that is likely to happen.

Jack Frost - and i think his brother is a very good proxy but having said that it was a huge win for GWS. I would think something in the band of 30-50 about right for him.

Adam Oxley - Same would go for him. Personally like to see a good ball user who is a smart decision maker stay but we have a lot of his type.

Jarryd Blair - but nobody agrees with me on him so he stays but I reckon a pick around 35-45 about right.

Tim Broomhead - Again dont want him to go but previous trades suggest 22-35 range.

That would give us;

Witts - lets say 22
Cloke - lets say 25
2nd Round selection - 26
Williams - 37
Frost - 40
3rd Round selection - 44
Oxley - 45
4th Round selection - 62

I think Hine & Co will then look to get that pick 22 & 25 a bit higher by adding the 37, 40 and 44 to it and maybe even the 26. So for example;

22 & 26 might go for pick 10-15 (points system would get as high as 7 but unlikely to achieve that)
25 & 37 might go for pick 18 (points systems gets up close to 12 but again wont happen)

they would probably be confident that Daicos and Brown wont be bid on by then so the point from 40, 44, 45 and 62 used to pay for them and or take someone late that fills a gap.

So many ways it can go but a big driver will be getting picks above where they think the bids for Brown and Daicos will come.

Sorry that probably dragged on a bit ......

Thanks for that. Broomhead the same trade value as Cloke?

 

[danielnajdek]

How many pages will we crack this year do you guys reckon

Last years trade talk thread cracked well over 1000 by memory

The year Beams got traded was a big thread too.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Agree and hence I think the wisest thing to do is reference some recent trades for an indication. Before we start though let me say in such an even draft a couple of spots here and there arent going to matter as much as maybe previous years where there was a clear 'cliff point' in terms of talent. Alas,

Witts - the most like deals for him I can find are;

Tom Hickey went for pick 13 and some swapping of late picks. Remember Tom was barely in that side at the time.
Shaun Hampson went for pick 32 and was pretty well on the outer
Rhys Stanley went for pick 21. I think we were all surprised but its a good proxy
Sam Frost went for pick 23 and some swapping of late picks. Like Same not the same role but a young tall talent on the outer nonetheless.

Likely outcome - I am pretty bullish on this one. I think Collingwood might get into the first round with some swapping of late picks potentially. I am hopeful of a pick around 17-20 but realistically it might be 18-25. Equally think quite likely could form part of a Marchbank and / or WHE trade. Notwithstanding a few clubs are into him so that will drive price up.



Cloke - the proxies are best probably those older types that went;

Brian Lake went for pick 27
Joel Patfull went for pick 21
Bernie Vince went for pick 23. I think bernie went with 28 years under his belt and a few issues over his head.
Shane Mumford went for pick 35. Ultimtely more a money issue and Swans had to do right thing by him so probably unders for what he should have been.


Likely outcome - I would think a band of 20-25 for Travis would be about right and potentially a bit higher with swapping of selections.


Williams - the most like deals I can find are;

Jake Melksham went for pick 25
Curtly Hampton went for 2nd round 2016 pick which will be about 25 as well
Paul Seedsman went for pick 32
Matt Rosa went for pick 31
Shane Biggs went for pick 39

Likely Outcome - I reckon they are all reasonable proxies for a bloke who last year was flying albeit this year has struggled. I would think a pick around 35-40 is about right for Marley.

I would also add the following players as am pretty sure a few will be up and that CFC will be looking to take some picks in the 30-50 range and package them up to move there selections in the 20-30 range a bit higher. They will want to do that as they may be worried where the bids for Brown and Daicos will come. Ie they will most likely want at least one (maybe 2) selections before that is likely to happen.

Jack Frost - and i think his brother is a very good proxy but having said that it was a huge win for GWS. I would think something in the band of 30-50 about right for him.

Adam Oxley - Same would go for him. Personally like to see a good ball user who is a smart decision maker stay but we have a lot of his type.

Jarryd Blair - but nobody agrees with me on him so he stays but I reckon a pick around 35-45 about right.

Tim Broomhead - Again dont want him to go but previous trades suggest 22-35 range.

That would give us;

Witts - lets say 22
Cloke - lets say 25
2nd Round selection - 26
Williams - 37
Frost - 40
3rd Round selection - 44
Oxley - 45
4th Round selection - 62

I think Hine & Co will then look to get that pick 22 & 25 a bit higher by adding the 37, 40 and 44 to it and maybe even the 26. So for example;

22 & 26 might go for pick 10-15 (points system would get as high as 7 but unlikely to achieve that)
25 & 37 might go for pick 18 (points systems gets up close to 12 but again wont happen)

they would probably be confident that Daicos and Brown wont be bid on by then so the point from 40, 44, 45 and 62 used to pay for them and or take someone late that fills a gap.

So many ways it can go but a big driver will be getting picks above where they think the bids for Brown and Daicos will come.

Sorry that probably dragged on a bit ......

Good work Snoop.

I still find the value of Witts and Cloke trades a bit optimistic.

Particularly in light of some other trades like Zac Smith, McEvoy, Sam Jacobs, Billy Longer and Barry Hall trades for example.

I don't think either of those 2 boys are playing as well as most of the trades you mentioned.

Somewhere in the range of 25 to 30 and we've made out pretty decently I suspect (even considering academy/father sons pushing that back).

 

[unplugged]

Hurley & pick 19 for Boyd?
The guy on a fortune who hasn't done anything in the AFL yet?
Bombers would be getting absolutely done over in that trade.
If we got pick 19 alone for Cloke it would be a bargain. Wont get steak knives as well & I don't rate Jong.

I was first and foremost thinking of an ideal trade scenario for the Bombers should Hurley "execute his will to leave" or whatever they're calling it at the moment. If you were the Bombers and Hurley came to you saying he wanted to go to the Bulldogs, I think Boyd would be on their shopping list... at the very least to prevent themself from losing a quality player for unders.

If not Boyd, then what? Pick ~12 this year and their first round next year (expected to be anywhere between 11 and 18)?

I think anything relating to picks one way or the other would be directly related to how much of Boyd's salary Essendon take on and how much of it the Dogs hold onto.

As for Jong as steak knives, I don't rate him either. Which is why he's "steak knives" and would be practically the same value to us as pick 19 on its own. Perhaps a free hit if you will.

 

[frizzle]

I was first and foremost thinking of an ideal trade scenario for the Bombers should Hurley "execute his will to leave" or whatever they're calling it at the moment. If you were the Bombers and Hurley came to you saying he wanted to go to the Bulldogs, I think Boyd would be on their shopping list... at the very least to prevent themself from losing a quality player for unders.

If not Boyd, then what? Pick ~12 this year and their first round next year (expected to be anywhere between 11 and 18)?

I think anything relating to picks one way or the other would be directly related to how much of Boyd's salary Essendon take on and how much of it the Dogs hold onto.

As for Jong as steak knives, I don't rate him either. Which is why he's "steak knives" and would be practically the same value to us as pick 19 on its own. Perhaps a free hit if you will.

I don't see Jong as a pick 19 at all. If Libba, McRae & Wallis were not injured he would be in the VFL right now.
I also see Hurley at 26 to be better than Boyd on his own. Why would the bombers need to throw in pick 19 as well?
Boyd may end up a good player, but he is making a lot of money for doing didley right now. What does that make Moore worth who is younger & already producing far more? I guess we just see things differently.

 

[unplugged]

I don't see Jong as a pick 19 at all. If Libba, McRae & Wallis were not injured he would be in the VFL right now.
I also see Hurley at 26 to be better than Boyd on his own. Why would the bombers need to throw in pick 19 as well?
Boyd may end up a good player, but he is making a lot of money for doing didley right now. What does that make Moore worth who is younger & already producing far more? I guess we just see things differently.

I didn't say Jong was worth pick 19. Not even close. I just mean I'd rather pick 19 and Jong than pick 19 on its own.

As for Hurley being a better player than Boyd, of course he is. But at the end of the day, Boyd is only what? 21? And if Hurley nominates them (the Dogs), they hold some power. I was thinking they'd do the ol' "we'll also give you pick 19 if you pay 50% of his salary" type scenario.

At the end of the day, if the Dogs can turn Boyd into Cloke and Hurley in the same amount of cap space, it'd be a masterstroke. A little far-fetched, sure, but a masterstroke nonetheless.

 

[Apex36]

Good work Snoop.

I still find the value of Witts and Cloke trades a bit optimistic.

Particularly in light of some other trades like Zac Smith, McEvoy, Sam Jacobs, Billy Longer and Barry Hall trades for example.

I don't think either of those 2 boys are playing as well as most of the trades you mentioned.

Somewhere in the range of 25 to 30 and we've made out pretty decently I suspect (even considering academy/father sons pushing that back).

Not sure if you're serious regarding Witts? He's made some serious progress this year in the VFL. If Grundy wasn't in AA form he would be 100% in our 22. Had 59 hitouts, 21 disposals and 2 goals this week against Port, who have one of the better VFL listed ruckmen on their list. Those are bonkers numbers for a ruckman even at VFL level. He would walk in to the number 1 ruck spot at several clubs imo.

 

[Apex36]

What does that make Moore worth who is younger & already producing far more? I guess we just see things differently.

I reckon clubs would happily give up 2 first round picks for Moore on his own at this point. The kids looking like being the next big thing, he just has it all.

 

[frizzle]

I reckon clubs would happily give up 2 first round picks for Moore on his own at this point. The kids looking like being the next big thing, he just has it all.

In a heartbeat. I'd rather Moore than the 2 first rounders though. You're right. Star in the making.

 

[Quicky]

Yeah I dont think Hurley coming. I suspect they are into Marchbank, H


Agree with all of that. Jong has wonderdul effort and I can see why they like him but the polish of Hrovat is our big issue. I'm equally unsure as to why your blokes would want Cloke albeit Crameri, Cloke, Boyd and Stringer would be potentially devasting on a good day with the amount of quick ball that comes in. YOu'd think they would do what Buckley seems unwilling to do and that is push him up the ground. He's a pretty good field kick.

As an aside there is another Dog that am keen on which is Webb. Saw a lot of him as a junior and seems to have the intensity, decision making and skill boxes all ticked. Thoughts?

Marchbank would be a very good get. At least it would sure up our defense, in terms of our skills back there. How do you rate him?

 

[RWnBluey]

Can just see it now.

Bulldogs swap Boyd for Hurley and Essendon's pick 19 (pick only thrown in based on age, etc.)

Dogs trade us Pick 19 (from the dons) for Cloke. We ask for steak knives and end up with Jong.

Dons get their forward line set for the next ten years (Danniher/Boyd), Bulldogs have a serious tilt at the flag for a year or two (Cloke/Crameri), and the pies stagnate.

Oh Dear.

 

[JollyBallsUp]

That's a prospect that I think the Dogs and Essendon might go for. Not bad for us either I might add. Although swap Jong for Hrovat as per Snoop's suggestion.

I would take Jong over Hrovat.

 

[Old Spice]

"What has marley williams done thats lead to the club wanting to trade him?"
Might want to switch that question around!

The bold above is what you responded to italicised post - the only interpretation to your posts is that the club has done something to Marley and he wants a trade.
Its very unambiguous to me.
How else can it be interpreted?

No doubt.

 

[Old Spice]

I would take Jong over Hrovat.

Hrovat might be handy but the discussion is really the battle of the steak knives.