List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[Rusty22]

witts will be 2nd in line to ruck in gc and brisbane.
would be tiges number 1 ruck.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

If we can get a pick in the low 20s for Witts we should be happy with the deal

I would go as far to say extremely happy

 

[jadami1973]

only 440 pages with comments of buckleys saving his ass by getting wells. Pretty sure gubby allen wouldn't be sitting there thinking what can I do to save buckley. He will be more worried about how he is going to look in a couple of years building another great team.

or how he is going to hide any players drugged off this nut

 

[jadami1973]

Motlop is what Leon used to do in finals.

Nothing.

Leon was an AA more than motflop will be

 

[jadami1973]

So the reason for Macca being sacked we agree was not football related - therefore the Dogs were right to sack him in your view.
Unless you know that Buckley is similarly the subject of a player revolt, then there is no comparison.
So why are you suggesting Buckley is being "protected"?

I think we have seen over the last few weeks with Haw and tonight with Geel, that holding off on rebuilding has its risks, even when you are blessed with a core of elite players.

So I think Buckley is being vindicated with his foresight to begin the rebuild early, because we did not have the elite depth of either Hawks or Geel.

So I'm very keen to understand why you lament that he is being "protected", because he's been vindicated in starting the rebuild early and therefore that can't be the reason.

Meanwhile Hawthorn, Geelong & Sydney have had NUMEROUS premierships by topping up with role players around their core players Buckley didn't have the experience or skill to do this and a re-build was the easiest way to go and also easier to sell and buy some time on "potential" which to date has failed and now we are looking at old guys .. Why we are not in any kind of premiership window !!!
It is very clear to the logical thinkers that we have only gone in reverse since 2012

 

[jadami1973]

He will not be at Sydney next year. Sydney need salary cap space. He has not played this year due to injury and Sydney does not appear to have missed him. The Hawks are interested in him.

Reid is one that could be a viable choice if we can get his body right he would be a great help to Moore and may only cost us the pick for Witts

 

[TheSierBear]

I would go as far to say extremely happy

I disagree. Here is a list of players who went at pick 27...
2015: Darcy Tucker
2014: Lucas Webb
2013: Sean Lemmens
2012: James Stewart
2011: Sam Kerridge
2010: Kieran Harper
2009: Callum Bartlett
2008: Sam Wright
2007: Andy Otten
2006: Brad Howard
2005: Dylan Addison
2004: Patrick Garner
2003: Adam Campbell
2002: Darren Walsh
2001: Tom Davidson
2000: Ted Richards.

I'm not sure what sort of talet Webb is, or how Lemmens is tracking, but Witts projects better than all other pick 27's and by some margin with the exception of Richards who was ironically traded for a fire sale, he'll be playing in a grand final next week btw with Alir going down.

Maybe it's smokes and mirrors. They don't want to offer pick 23 as they want to stand firm and keep the O'Meara trade seperate, cause if they landed Jong, Sicily and Cloke, it's quite conveivable and fair that Cloke and Jog being part of the deal tunrs pick 23 to pick 14 to Collingwood.

FWIW, I think Witts will be a bargain for either pick 23 or pick 27.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

Have to be front ended, pay him $800k 1st year then $400k for remaining 2 years you would think.

It's the third season that bothers me... don't like the idea of 600k for THREE seasons.

Two, possibly, but three is just too much.

 

[regpies]

**** that, pick 27 isn't good enough for Witts.

Pick 27 for a guy who has played VFL all year and isn't in our best 22 is pretty good.

If GC are offering that we should be making that deal happen in the first few seconds of trade week before they change their mind.

 

[Go Woods]

It's the third season that bothers me... don't like the idea of 600k for THREE seasons.

Two, possibly, but three is just too much.

Agree, third year should only based on performance KPI's needing to be achieved in year 2.

 

[regpies]

Some chat that WA clubs are targeting Lobb, if he goes GWS will be short in the ruck. Can we try to talk Witts into going there again, surely after the way GWS are going this year he is regretting not going last year.

If we could do Witts plus a draft pick for WHE and another high draft pick who is playing NEAFL we'd be better off than just trading Witts for a 2nd rounder

 

[Go Woods]

I'm with you Ramsay, fully fit etc, is a best 22 player. At worst he's in he emergencies, but I have him moved up to sit solidly in the 22.
He'll go well with Maynard and co

I agree Ramsey is a very clean user and love the way he attacks the ball...He and Maynard could be our two HBF'rs for the next decade.

 

[Quicky]

Read something on another thread which seems an idea thats to good to be true. (If allowed) which gave me the idea of the following.

Trade Witts for Second Rounder which is on-traded to GWS for WHE

Trade Pick 25 and our first round 2017 for GWS picks 16 (GWS picked up off Geelong) and GWS 15 or 17 or 18 (Depending on tomorrows result)

That way we can Draft a Griffin Logue and Patrick Kerr type and count that as 2 First Round picks to make it easier for trading moving forward.

Trade our 3rd and Jack Frost for Sam Reid (SYD)

Then we have the option to trade out 2 of the likes of Cloke/Blair/Oxley/Williams/Nathan Brown and even Broomhead etc for the points required for Daicos and Brown (Both will be late 2nd/Early 3rd Round picks)

Trading our 2017 first rounder defeats the purpose of setting ourselves up for future trading. That 2017 first rounder is likely a key to getting a key forward next year, either through the trade or failing that the draft. Next year is the key position draft. This year outside of the very top picks isn't so 15 and 16 is a real gamble on whether the player you want slides or you get one good enough for AFL level.

 

[Quicky]

Brett Anderson mentioned on SEN yesterday that North Melbourne due to the contract offer from Collingwood to Wells that the compensation is high enough for them not to want Nathan Brown as a free agent. They may look to make a trade to not effect the compensation in any way. This will then give us compensation for Brown we otherwise wouldn't have got.

Paying a higher wage now may help us gain some picks.

That's interesting posturing. If we went down that route I guess we are fairly commited to Marsh as our future. I would like to retain Brown personally.

 

[Apex36]

did I just read 1st rounder?

If he keeps going the way he is they'll be lucky to get a second. Can't imagine anyone would be happy to pay him big $$$ as it is.

 

[Apex36]

**** that, pick 27 isn't good enough for Witts.

We'll try for one of their earlier ones, but 27 would still be reasonably fair.

 

[Quicky]

I disagree. Here is a list of players who went at pick 27...
2015: Darcy Tucker
2014: Lucas Webb
2013: Sean Lemmens
2012: James Stewart
2011: Sam Kerridge
2010: Kieran Harper
2009: Callum Bartlett
2008: Sam Wright
2007: Andy Otten
2006: Brad Howard
2005: Dylan Addison
2004: Patrick Garner
2003: Adam Campbell
2002: Darren Walsh
2001: Tom Davidson
2000: Ted Richards.

I'm not sure what sort of talet Webb is, or how Lemmens is tracking, but Witts projects better than all other pick 27's and by some margin with the exception of Richards who was ironically traded for a fire sale, he'll be playing in a grand final next week btw with Alir going down.

Maybe it's smokes and mirrors. They don't want to offer pick 23 as they want to stand firm and keep the O'Meara trade seperate, cause if they landed Jong, Sicily and Cloke, it's quite conveivable and fair that Cloke and Jog being part of the deal tunrs pick 23 to pick 14 to Collingwood.

FWIW, I think Witts will be a bargain for either pick 23 or pick 27.

Wasn't the discussion about a pick in the low 22's? Pick 27 isn't low 20's.

 

[Tassiepies83]

Agree, third year should only based on performance KPI's needing to be achieved in year 2.

It could well be, it's not even confirmed yet I guess

 

[Apex36]

Wasn't the discussion about a pick in the low 22's? Pick 27 isn't low 20's.

Article in the age saying we'd want a low 20's pick but GC will likely offer 27.

 

[Dynamics]

Collective wisdom: If we made a good decision it was down to Hine, if we made a bad decision it was down to Buckley, if we are to make good decisions in the future it will be down to Gubby.

 

[Quicky]

We'll try for one of their earlier ones, but 27 would still be reasonably fair.

Pick 27 would be within the range of what similarly talented ruckmen were worth at the trade table, using past case studies as a blue print. But pick 27 would be at the lower end of the range. I would personally be pretty disappointed with that given the number of clubs chasing a ruck and the picks available to those teams. Those picks range from a projected 16-27. I'd be hoping for something more towards that pick 17-23 myself.

 

[Quicky]

Article in the age saying we'd want a low 20's pick but GC will likely offer 27.

Yeah I guess it depends how much they want him. An offer of pick 27 leaves GC open to a lower bid from another team. We were trying to keep our 2016 first round pick this time last year.

 

[Maggie5]

Collective wisdom: If we made a good decision it was down to Hine, if we made a bad decision it was down to Buckley, if we are to make good decisions in the future it will be down to Gubby.

100% POTY.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Plenty of good players have been taken at 27 or later. Would be a decent outcome for Witts - I'd do it.

After mocking people for always throwing up Sam Reid, he might be gettable this year because the Swans should offload someone to make room to keep Tom Mitchell. Given the dearth of options for KPF, Sam might be worth a shot if we can genuinely "buy low" this year.

 

[well left]

Read something on another thread which seems an idea thats to good to be true. (If allowed) which gave me the idea of the following.

Trade Witts for Second Rounder which is on-traded to GWS for WHE

Trade Pick 25 and our first round 2017 for GWS picks 16 (GWS picked up off Geelong) and GWS 15 or 17 or 18 (Depending on tomorrows result)

That way we can Draft a Griffin Logue and Patrick Kerr type and count that as 2 First Round picks to make it easier for trading moving forward.

Trade our 3rd and Jack Frost for Sam Reid (SYD)

Then we have the option to trade out 2 of the likes of Cloke/Blair/Oxley/Williams/Nathan Brown and even Broomhead etc for the points required for Daicos and Brown (Both will be late 2nd/Early 3rd Round picks)

This is where future picks and academies make things interesting.

The idea of pick 25 and 2017 1st for 2 1sts this year seems a bit far fetched but if the Giants get good picks for Marchbank, McCarthy and potentially Lobb then they are in a position to look at this. I think they have 1 high end Academy kid this year and some that may take picks in the 30's and they have some seriously talented kids in next years academy pool so picking up an extra 1st rounder next year may work for them.

That said they could also get those picks in the McCarthy and Marchbank deals so no need for us but I'd like to think Hine and Gubby are thinking about how to exploit this.