Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion - Part 2

[LanceRomance]

We'll definitely be taking more than 3 picks in a draft considered to be a deep one. Why would we have bothered trading for 63, 66 & 70 if we had no intention to use them?

because that deal was done 20 mins before the bell rang And we hadnt secured marchbank and pickett by that stage.

I bet the club wanted to trade those later picks for those two.

What I suspect will happen is that next year Hawthorn will trade us their 2018 2nd pick.

 

[choo]

Barlow delisted. Cripps assistant

 

[Soapy V]

Sweet, lets clog the list for another round of delistings who never or rarely played for the club. Why not just keep those low picked players we get rid of every year? Give them time!
I would rather protect Cripps and win a little ball for a year or two while we develop the top end rather than discuss pick 70's form in the development side!

so bring in other clubs cast offs? we are rebuidling. we have brought in palmer kerridge wright smedts lamb and have gibbs murphy curnow thomas armfield etc. how many mature bodies do you need? as for cripps, protecting him is bs. he can handle himself and wont change anything whoever he has around him.

we have enough soldiers. we need elite talent and the only way is too pay overs in trade period or go to the draft. its call rebuilding

 

[Soapy V]

We'll definitely be taking more than 3 picks in a draft considered to be a deep one. Why would we have bothered trading for 63, 66 & 70 if we had no intention to use them?

agree. they were concerned we didn't have picks and wanted as many as possible. thats why sos went to the hawks the night before and proposed the deal

 

[Malifice]

They had a strategy locked into place at the end of the 2015 trade period, and the AFL changed the rules on them mid-year. This was the result.

Surely trading (2-3) of those picks in the late 50s down for similar points but a single pick in the 20's was a better way to go?

And they don't need to add the academy kids with just the points from this year, they just need to mitigate the damage of next year's draft by forcing the points deduction to start in the third round, which they are a decent chance to do.

Points dedcution starts in the round the bid is made, not in the round the points are paid I thought?

 

[Jeremias]

because that deal was done 20 mins before the bell rang And we hadnt secured marchbank and pickett by that stage.

We'd have known what the deals for both were going to be, well before they were executed.

We traded with Hawthorn for 2 reasons - to help them get the O'Meara deal over the line, and to give ourselves picks in the rounds we traded out of.

If we didn't plan on using them, we wouldn't have traded for them.

 

[lopezz]

so bring in other clubs cast offs? we are rebuidling. we have brought in palmer kerridge wright smedts lamb and have gibbs murphy curnow thomas armfield etc. how many mature bodies do you need? as for cripps, protecting him is bs. he can handle himself and wont change anything whoever he has around him.

we have enough soldiers. we need elite talent and the only way is too pay overs in trade period or go to the draft. its call rebuilding

Which one of those cast off's have ever played to the level of Barlow?
If a guy helps you go close to building a winning culture wouldn't you pick him up for free? Or does a rebuild meen picking up a heap of kids late just to say we picked 7 draftees?

 

[LanceRomance]

We'd have known what the deals for both were going to be, well before they were executed.

We traded with Hawthorn for 2 reasons - to help them get the O'Meara deal over the line, and to give ourselves picks in the rounds we traded out of.

If we didn't plan on using them, we wouldn't have traded for them.

It wasnt well before. It was the night before the close of trade was proposed.

This trade will go down as a complete mystery.

I suspect GWS were after that pick too.

 

[Soapy V]

Which one of those cast off's have ever played to the level of Barlow?
If a guy helps you go close to building a winning culture wouldn't you pick him up for free? Or does a rebuild meen picking up a heap of kids late just to say we picked 7 draftees?

past it and poor disposal. i think he have enough of those skills on our list. barlow doesn't add anything and doesn't fit the criteria set by the club.

if you don't at least try and get quality with your picks why bother. otherwise lets just aim for mediocrity and sit around the middle of the ladder. look at the examples of bulldogs saints and demons. imo thats how you build a list

 

[dragonsblues]

so bring in other clubs cast offs? we are rebuidling. we have brought in palmer kerridge wright smedts lamb and have gibbs murphy curnow thomas armfield etc. how many mature bodies do you need? as for cripps, protecting him is bs. he can handle himself and wont change anything whoever he has around him.

we have enough soldiers. we need elite talent and the only way is too pay overs in trade period or go to the draft. its call rebuilding

The problem with the argument you continue to make is that youth of any age or any number is a good thing. Why stop at 7? Why not push for 8 or 9 or more 18 year olds? The reason the club doesn't use picks 130 and more is because history and data tell us that there is no point. There is only so much young talent out there and only so much you can introduce to a list at one draft.

Barlow or other DFAs would be replacing players like Everitt or Whiley place on the list. Is he an upgrade on them? Yes.

We all agree that we need to draft young talent. We all want to, sadly for us each year there is a limited number of players available who can play AFL football. That doesn't extend to 8 or 9 each team, each year.

 

[LanceRomance]

past it and poor disposal. i think he have enough of those skills on our list. barlow doesn't add anything and doesn't fit the criteria set by the club.

if you don't at least try and get quality with your picks why bother. otherwise lets just aim for mediocrity and sit around the middle of the ladder. look at the examples of bulldogs saints and demons. imo thats how you build a list

Lol saints


honestly. I reckon they botched the years they tanked out.

 

[lopezz]

The problem with the argument you continue to make is that youth of any age or any number is a good thing. Why stop at 7? Why not push for 8 or 9 or more 18 year olds? The reason the club doesn't use picks 130 and more is because history and data tell us that there is no point. There is only so much young talent out there and only so much you can introduce to a list at one draft.

Barlow or other DFAs would be replacing players like Everitt or Whiley place on the list. Is he an upgrade on them? Yes.

We all agree that we need to draft young talent. We all want to, sadly for us each year there is a limited number of players available who can play AFL football. That doesn't extend to 8 or 9 each team, each year.

This!
Thank you

 

[Soapy V]

The problem with the argument you continue to make is that youth of any age or any number is a good thing. Why stop at 7? Why not push for 8 or 9 or more 18 year olds?

not it all. its now times to draft some talent as we have so many older or handy players. our age profile for a bottom side is poor. the system is you need to draft to rebuild. people keep suggesting players that at best are a slight upgrade on what we already have. there are reasons they are cut from other clubs. if your were recruiting one to cover a position or fill a hole in a contender then it make sense but not in the position we are in.

we have already recruited palmer marchbank pickett smedts wright kerridge phillips plowman phillips lamb sumner in the past 2 years. last year we only went to the draft with 4 picks and a f/s. this year we need to do at least that. look at our list. there isn't a lot of real young talent on it

 

[thylacine60]

Anyone else officially given up trying to understand how the draft works? Just me? Rightiho then.....

 

[LanceRomance]

not it all. its now times to draft some talent as we have so many older or handy players. our age profile for a bottom side is poor. the system is you need to draft to rebuild. people keep suggesting players that at best are a slight upgrade on what we already have. there are reasons they are cut from other clubs. if your were recruiting one to cover a position or fill a hole in a contender then it make sense but not in the position we are in.

we have already recruited marchbank pickett smedts wright kerridge phillips plowman phillips lamb sumner in the past 2 years. last year we only went to the draft with 4 picks and a f/s. this year we need to do at least that. look at our list. there isn't a lot of real young talent on it

only 5 players last year..... not many would have taken more

 

[Soapy V]

only 5 players last year..... not many would have taken more

thats right because the draft wasn't deep. the opinion seems to be this one is so its the perfect time to take a few more picks.

 

[Soapy V]

Lol saints


honestly. I reckon they botched the years they tanked out.

list looks a lot better than ours

 

[Cripps17]

If we didn't plan on using them, we wouldn't have traded for them.

I'd be surprised if we didn't go beyond 48, but even in isolation 12 months of development and pick 48 in what is known to be a deep draft isnt a bad swap for a pick ~38 next year.

 

[Jeremias]

past it and poor disposal. i think he have enough of those skills on our list. barlow doesn't add anything and doesn't fit the criteria set by the club.

Barlow had 43 touches in his 3rd last game this year. Disposals don't tell the full story but he's clearly still capable of playing good football & for that reason I expect many clubs to be in contact with his management.

The criteria set by the club is a guide and can't be taken as an absolute. We're focusing on players under 23 but that doesn't mean we're recruiting in that age bracket exclusively - see Wright last year, Smedts and Palmer this year.

We may or may not go down the path of recruiting Barlow, but if the coaches and list management team believe he can be of use to us next year and possibly beyond, you can be certain we'll be exploring the option.

 

[LanceRomance]

thats right because the draft wasn't deep. the opinion seems to be this one is so its the perfect time to take a few more picks.

So lets take a whole bunch of players in the 60's?

It is spin by the club.

 

[Cripps17]

If I was them I would have focussed on picks under 40 this year and next. Once I had enough points to pay for McGrath and 3 academy boys this year, I would have stockpiled future picks < 40.

I get your point, but which club swaps their future second for 3 picks in the 50s this year? Sure it makes sense for GWS but it's got to also make sense for another team.

 

[Malifice]

I get your point, but which club swaps their future second for 3 picks in the 50s this year?

Ummm... us?

We swapped GWS second round pick for worse.

 

[dragonsblues]

not it all. its now times to draft some talent as we have so many older or handy players. our age profile for a bottom side is poor. the system is you need to draft to rebuild. people keep suggesting players that at best are a slight upgrade on what we already have. there are reasons they are cut from other clubs. if your were recruiting one to cover a position or fill a hole in a contender then it make sense but not in the position we are in.

we have already recruited palmer marchbank pickett smedts wright kerridge phillips plowman phillips lamb sumner in the past 2 years. last year we only went to the draft with 4 picks and a f/s. this year we need to do at least that. look at our list. there isn't a lot of real young talent on it

Firstly the age profile is a bit pointless for 2 reasons. 1) we've reduced it each time 2) it is propped up by a handful of players.

And yes your argument does rest of the assumption that there is endless talent out there and if you just keep drafting regardless of the quality left you'll successfully have a rebuild. Do you believe Wright has inhabited our rebuild? If so, that is an odd position but consistent with your argument. If no, then you can see that select players can be good for ensuring there is healthy competition and filling a hole instead of throwing a younger player in before they're ready.

 

[LanceRomance]

Ummm... us?

We swapped GWS second round pick for worse.

As I said earlier. I think Hawthorn will pay us back next year.

 

[Cripps17]

Ummm... us?

We swapped GWS second round pick for worse.

We're still one team, and there'd be reasons behind it. Perhaps Hawks do us a favour. Perhaps we have our eye on someone at 48 that may not make it past the teams before 52.