Training Training thread - news and live reports

[Frank Thring]

Big preussy winning the big man stakes is a great sign.

Add big tank to really tall, really big, really aggro and plenty of cnut.

Im tipping he will debut in 2017.

 

[Saintly35]

At last, the truth comes out.

It's not truth.

Andrew Swallow has weaknesses yes (like all our players) and is under-appreciated.

Supporters claim Cunners as some kind of superstar, yet as a younger player with no injury excuses his 2016 was hardly any, if at all, better than his Captain.

 

[rippersnipper]

What was gary lyon doing at arden st?

 

[Heaps of fun]

What was gary lyon doing at arden st?

Looking for JB's missus.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

It's not truth.

Andrew Swallow has weaknesses yes (like all our players) and is under-appreciated.

Supporters claim Cunners as some kind of superstar, yet as a younger player with no injury excuses his 2016 was hardly any, if at all, better than his Captain.

You're delusional.

 

[Tas]

Incorrect. You need to be uninjured, unimpeded and have a good engine.

Incorrect. Spitta never had trouble finding the pill. The guys body was wrecked last year and he just couldn't run. Or do you think Gibson is a better runner than anyone else because he has better instruction?

Come one mate, you're better than that.

At last, the truth comes out.

You have a simplistic view on things. Swallow just isn't suited for this style of footy, it may sound absurd, because he is an in and under nut, but he isn't built for the game to be a grind to the extent that it is now.

Let me wind back the clock to the halcyon days under the junk yard dog, Swallow was bog average. So average in fact that the bible banished him to purgatory, otherwise known as the VFL for almost all of 2008. He came back better, but first cracked a 20 disposal average in 2010, the year after the bloodletting of the old guard and the retirement of guys like Simpson and the ousting of Harris, Power and the stodge machine.

In our Dear Leader's first year as reign as coach Swallow had a lot more freedom, not just because he was the only permanent inside midfielder, but because he had a lot more running players around him. Brad saw the direction the game was going and we played a faster transition game which troubled a lot of sides, the problem was we had a lot of players like Anthony, Gibson, Harper, Boomer, Campbell, etc who weren't exactly the hardest two way running and tackling players, so it was kind of problematic when we couldn't get our hands on enough of the ball.

In this environment, Swallow thrived and it wasn't because of his inside numbers, those have been pretty static over the years, what has been different is his uncontested work rate, he had a lot more uncontested possessions in 2011, 2012 and 2013. He had 8 bounces in 2011, 6 in 2012 and 8 in 2013. He has had 4 bounces total since 2013 from 62 games, that is once bounce for every 15 and a half games... as a midfielder.

He also ran a lot more aggressively, in 2010 he kicked 16.11 and had 14 goal assists. In 2011 it was 11.7 and 13 assists, in 2012 it was 9.12 and 17 assists. His contribution the last three years combined is 9.14 and 23 assists. The more permanent time Cunnington and Ziebell have been given and the the slower we have moved the ball by design and stopped using the corridor it has severely hampered his ability, we have had more stoppage numbers, so much more that Swallow has been able to maintain his inside numbers despite the permanent additions of Cunnington and Ziebell to the midfield group.

I don't think he has fully recovered from his Achilles and I think that is going to impact his ability to do endurance running, particularly early in the pre-season, however, JB approaching Scott after the disastrous end to 2012 had probably torpedoed any chance our club had of winning a flag during the reign of the older generation. Brad had the right idea, what he lacked was the cattle.

Swallow was always going to slow down with age, but he was never that quick to begin with, while he wasn't slow he was never a player that relied on speed. Our run and carry game was instinctive, the spread was instinctive, it got the best out of numerous players, Thompson was an AA defender during this era, he has degenerated into a bit of a buffoon with this ultra defensive nobody pick up anybody type of gameplan.

There is no synergy with our midfield unit, the only time they seem to pass the ball to each other is with a point blank hot potato hand pass under the pump. Ziebell had a pretty good year statistically, but seemed to fair a bit better when he used to push up the ground, in the middle he was hit and miss and the entire midfield group struggled to get involved.

I love Ben, he is one of my favourite players but he has racked up nearly 150 games and has put ball to turf a total of 8 times in his career as a midfielder.

None of our assistants have made it as a coach, I don't even know of anyone who has been asked to do an interview. You don't need to be a brilliant footy strategist to see there is something fundamentally wrong with how we structure up at stoppages and how we move the ball.

We can piss, fart and moan about it, but guys like Petrie and Wells have played the bulk of their career at our club with nothing to show for it and will have regrets of never being good enough to win a flag. We haven't really given them a chance to, we haven't been good enough at enough of the basics to give ourselves a chance and we have let down players who have given everything to the club. I don't want the younger players who are now in their mid 20s now to become the next generation of not-good-enoughs. They deserve better than that.

 

[tazaa]

^Agreed. We seem more content on image control and making good humans out of the footballers who walk through the door. It's great for culture but we've achieved **** all success.

 

[Saintly35]

You're delusional.

I don't think he had any more excuses than Swallow (after his achilles) for his average form.

I am hopeful for a better year from Cunners this season, getting fit will assist him in achieving that.

You are delusional if you think Cunners' fitness is where it should be.

 

[ChopChopDigDig]

^Agreed. We seem more content on image control and making good humans out of the footballers who walk through the door. It's great for culture but we've achieved **** all success.

Disagree with that statement. There's no correlation between our game plan, lack or ultimate success and striving to be a honourable club with well rounded players.

 

[Tas]

Disagree with that statement. There's no correlation between our game plan, lack or ultimate success and striving to be a honourable club with well rounded players.

I think we are too much of a boys club from the top down, Brad is more of a friend to the players than a coach. He doesn't set the bar high enough and doesn't drop players who consistently put out a below average output or let the team down badly to establish the mindset that you have to play to a certain standard to be guaranteed a game.

There has been too much of a variance between the kind of efforts where we played teams like Hawthorn and the pressure we applied to them and the vast majority of other games in the second half of the season. You can't pick and choose when you are going to make an effort, when you have the intent to tackle, when you have the intent to chase, when you don't allow the opposition to take uncontested mark after uncontested mark.

 

[koshari]

I think we are too much of a boys club from the top down, Brad is more of a friend to the players than a coach. He doesn't set the bar high enough and doesn't drop players who consistently put out a below average output or let the team down badly to establish the mindset that you have to play to a certain standard to be guaranteed a game.

There has been too much of a variance between the kind of efforts where we played teams like Hawthorn and the pressure we applied to them and the vast majority of other games in the second half of the season. You can't pick and choose when you are going to make an effort, when you have the intent to tackle, when you have the intent to chase, when you don't allow the opposition to take uncontested mark after uncontested mark.

i would agree with that observation.

 

[Frank Thring]

I believe Scott struggled to deal with the veterans. His inability to treat them as equals was detrimental to the team performance. Due to these vets going, i think you'll see a different coach. If he does continue down the current path and starts protecting Swallow, Waite, Thommo et al then we're in trouble.

 

[shintemaster]

Im tipping he will debut in 2017.

Hope so. Even assuming no injuries to Goldy I would be more than happy to give him 4-5 games over the season to see where he's at.

I believe Scott struggled to deal with the veterans. His inability to treat them as equals was detrimental to the team performance. Due to these vets going, i think you'll see a different coach. If he does continue down the current path and starts protecting Swallow, Waite, Thommo et al then we're in trouble.

Agree, I don't think it's only a Scott issue though. The whole match committee I think struggled with the same. Swallow is the danger from that group IMHO. Waite we don't owe much, it's been mutually beneficial, Thommo is no fan darling. Swallow however has been the Captain and carried a big load while being the ultimate clubman. If his form next year doesn't earn him games he'd be the player that would be most likely trip up the 'reset' football department.

 

[ChopChopDigDig]

I think we are too much of a boys club from the top down, Brad is more of a friend to the players than a coach. He doesn't set the bar high enough and doesn't drop players who consistently put out a below average output or let the team down badly to establish the mindset that you have to play to a certain standard to be guaranteed a game.

There has been too much of a variance between the kind of efforts where we played teams like Hawthorn and the pressure we applied to them and the vast majority of other games in the second half of the season. You can't pick and choose when you are going to make an effort, when you have the intent to tackle, when you have the intent to chase, when you don't allow the opposition to take uncontested mark after uncontested mark.

I never said that.

Tazza said "We seem more content on image control and making good humans", and I disagreed that you can have 'good humans' (read no dickhead policy) and be successful. I for one am grateful I'm never worried on the day after Mad Monday that North boys will be in the news.

I agree that to this point it's been the tail wagging the dog, and said many times I hope Boomer/Drew/Spud/NDS leaving is the catalyst to change.

 

[B4Bear]

I am off work starting next week. What days and time do the lads train? And would anyone like to meet up where the cafe should be?

 

[Elsker]

I am off work starting next week. What days and time do the lads train? And would anyone like to meet up where the cafe should be?

And not drink coffee?

 

[Le Grille]

And not drink coffee?

They have a cart.

 

[Elsker]

They have a cart.

Oh. .. Well, that's ok then . But I will be busy, so won't be there, any way .

 

[kangaspurs]

I am off work starting next week. What days and time do the lads train? And would anyone like to meet up where the cafe should be?

You might have to pack your work cammo before heading down though, mate. Heath may be on the prowl.

 

[Le Grille]

Haven't heard much from him since #stillwaitinggate

 

[The Nostradamus]

I believe Scott struggled to deal with the veterans. His inability to treat them as equals was detrimental to the team performance. Due to these vets going, i think you'll see a different coach. If he does continue down the current path and starts protecting Swallow, Waite, Thommo et al then we're in trouble.

Hope you're right but I'll only believe it when I see it.

Let's hope he has no issue dropping the 30+year olds in Waite, Gibson and Thompson

 

[Firestarter]

Hope you're right but I'll only believe it when I see it.

Let's hope he has no issue dropping the 30+year olds in Waite, Gibson and Thompson

I don't think those are the best three names to use but my opinion is worth as much as used toilet paper.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Hope you're right but I'll only believe it when I see it.

Let's hope he has no issue dropping the 30+year olds in Waite, Gibson and Thompson

Subtle.

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

You have a simplistic view on things. Swallow just isn't suited for this style of footy, it may sound absurd, because he is an in and under nut, but he isn't built for the game to be a grind to the extent that it is now.

Let me wind back the clock to the halcyon days under the junk yard dog, Swallow was bog average. So average in fact that the bible banished him to purgatory, otherwise known as the VFL for almost all of 2008. He came back better, but first cracked a 20 disposal average in 2010, the year after the bloodletting of the old guard and the retirement of guys like Simpson and the ousting of Harris, Power and the stodge machine.

In our Dear Leader's first year as reign as coach Swallow had a lot more freedom, not just because he was the only permanent inside midfielder, but because he had a lot more running players around him. Brad saw the direction the game was going and we played a faster transition game which troubled a lot of sides, the problem was we had a lot of players like Anthony, Gibson, Harper, Boomer, Campbell, etc who weren't exactly the hardest two way running and tackling players, so it was kind of problematic when we couldn't get our hands on enough of the ball.

In this environment, Swallow thrived and it wasn't because of his inside numbers, those have been pretty static over the years, what has been different is his uncontested work rate, he had a lot more uncontested possessions in 2011, 2012 and 2013. He had 8 bounces in 2011, 6 in 2012 and 8 in 2013. He has had 4 bounces total since 2013 from 62 games, that is once bounce for every 15 and a half games... as a midfielder.

He also ran a lot more aggressively, in 2010 he kicked 16.11 and had 14 goal assists. In 2011 it was 11.7 and 13 assists, in 2012 it was 9.12 and 17 assists. His contribution the last three years combined is 9.14 and 23 assists. The more permanent time Cunnington and Ziebell have been given and the the slower we have moved the ball by design and stopped using the corridor it has severely hampered his ability, we have had more stoppage numbers, so much more that Swallow has been able to maintain his inside numbers despite the permanent additions of Cunnington and Ziebell to the midfield group.

I don't think he has fully recovered from his Achilles and I think that is going to impact his ability to do endurance running, particularly early in the pre-season, however, JB approaching Scott after the disastrous end to 2012 had probably torpedoed any chance our club had of winning a flag during the reign of the older generation. Brad had the right idea, what he lacked was the cattle.

Swallow was always going to slow down with age, but he was never that quick to begin with, while he wasn't slow he was never a player that relied on speed. Our run and carry game was instinctive, the spread was instinctive, it got the best out of numerous players, Thompson was an AA defender during this era, he has degenerated into a bit of a buffoon with this ultra defensive nobody pick up anybody type of gameplan.

There is no synergy with our midfield unit, the only time they seem to pass the ball to each other is with a point blank hot potato hand pass under the pump. Ziebell had a pretty good year statistically, but seemed to fair a bit better when he used to push up the ground, in the middle he was hit and miss and the entire midfield group struggled to get involved.

I love Ben, he is one of my favourite players but he has racked up nearly 150 games and has put ball to turf a total of 8 times in his career as a midfielder.

None of our assistants have made it as a coach, I don't even know of anyone who has been asked to do an interview. You don't need to be a brilliant footy strategist to see there is something fundamentally wrong with how we structure up at stoppages and how we move the ball.

We can piss, fart and moan about it, but guys like Petrie and Wells have played the bulk of their career at our club with nothing to show for it and will have regrets of never being good enough to win a flag. We haven't really given them a chance to, we haven't been good enough at enough of the basics to give ourselves a chance and we have let down players who have given everything to the club. I don't want the younger players who are now in their mid 20s now to become the next generation of not-good-enoughs. They deserve better than that.

Top read.

Lets not forget that Swallow has poor foot skills to boot

 

[giantroo]

WHO IS TRAINING AT YOUR CLUB?

Adelaide: Jordan Houlahan, Darcy Fogarty, Callum Coleman-Jones
Brisbane Lions: Jack Clayton, Connor Ballenden
Carlton: Lochie O'Brien, Joel Garner
Collingwood: Jack Higgins, Aidan Quigley
Essendon: Noah Balta
Fremantle: Jake Patmore
Geelong: James Worpel, Paddy Dow
Gold Coast: Dominic Grant, Brayden Crossley, Kwaby Boakye
Greater Western Sydney: Charlie Spargo, Jarrod Brander, Jack Powell, Nathan Richards
Hawthorn: Changbuoth Jiath, Sam Hayes
Melbourne: Luke Davies-Uniacke, Oscar Clavarino
North Melbourne: Jaidyn Stephenson
Port Adelaide: Andrew McPherson, Thomas Schmusch
Richmond: Patrick Naish, Kane Farrell
St Kilda: Hunter Clark, Tom De Koning
Sydney: Hayden McLean
West Coast: Aaron Darling, Sam Taylor
Western Bulldogs: Cameron Rayner, Lachlan Fogarty