Hawthorn FC worst nightmare the 2017 Draft

[MightyTiger]

Yes but no-one expected us to be 17th in 2017.
The pick is gone so it doesn't matter to Hawthorn what pick the saints get. It is like selling your house for $500,000, then the next year your buyer sells it for $700,000. If you were happy with $500,000 at the time, it doesn't matter that the next guy sells it for more. It has no affect on what you do with your $500,000. Yes, we lost in the trade but we have won on so many previously and over time you will not win them all. Taking risks (like trading CROAD and McPHarlin for Hodge and Mitchell) is what won us four flags.
No regarets. If you do nothing, the nothing happens.

Well no that's not really how it works in the AFL, you bought a defective item with major injury concerns for top $, you even knew what you were buying had major concerns yet paid way overs for it, it's simply not comparable.

 

[Blue1980]

what? We had 3 premierships in a decade. You think that's not comparable? Please!

And that attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. You think there is something about the quality of being Hawthorn that leads to success. That's exactly it.

You got a priority pick and snagged Franklin and Roughead (great drafting). Built a good team and snagged one in 2008. Used the success to lure FA's, and then the great accident of history allowed you to artificially sustain your time at the top.

Now it seems very much that Clarko is drinking his own bathwater big time. I guess we'll find out

Spot on. We had similar problems to Essendon wit a club and supporter base thinking just because we were Carlton success would happen and the crappy decisions were somehow good ones in disguise.

Hawthorn may bounce back quickly, but it sure as hell won't be on the back of the trade/draft period last year. Smacks of a club drunk off their own success thinking they could pull anything off.

At the very least, Hawthorn will be out of finals contention until 2020. They have the worst young stocks in the AFL, with a dwindled middle age bracket and more older players due to retire very soon and by far the worst midfield in the comp.

They have done remarkably well to win 4 flags and nothing can take that away, but past success doesn't guarantee future success. The success of hawthorn under clarko was a clear break from what they had been doing post early 90s and not a continuation from that.

 

[Blue1980]

See now you're on track for the "you rely too much on old champs but shouldn't move on old champs" line of argument.

Whether clarkson thought we could challenge or not in 2017 - we had no hope if we were going to go in with the 2016 midfield because of this reliance on oldies that you've highlighted and the increased speed of the game. You've said it, I've said it and the hawthorn trade period shows the club thought it.

So maybe it's not about the whole list being shit or wonderful - maybe it's about that shallow midfield that was relying on some slow but highly competent players? Either way the midfield group onnthe list needed a massive overhaul.

As for the 'not much youth coming through' line that's totally correct. The youth haven't been given enough games at the top level during genuinne premiership threat years. Now they are and we are seeing the wheat versus the chaff surprisingly quickly.

I don't get the general tone in here. It's like we should have been rebuilding while winning premierships instead of winning premierships?

The plan of letting go Mitchell and Lewis for your promising and upcoming midfields would be a sound one if these players existed at the club.

A fit JOM and Tom Mitchell would of strengthened a glaring weakness with sam Mitchell and Lewis still there. Now we have no JOM playing and Tom Mitchell being the whole midfield.

Who else is a genuine mid at Hawthorn? Serious question as I can't think of any.

You can say his is the price you pay for so many flags, and that's fine.

What I and many others are arguing against is the denial many hawthorn fans seem to have of their current list and the strange belief that somehow the 2016 trade period was some kind of genius move that only the trained eye can see.

The reality was what they did last year makes no real sense. If they thought they could still contend keep Mitchell and Lewis. If not, why bring in vickery and Henderson, as well as selling any chance of getting a fair bit of talent in by getting JOM. Only explanation is they are so far up their own asses after the premierships clarko and co think anything they do will come off.

 

[TEDDY24INC]

Sorry bud, you'll always be the handbaggers.

View attachment 380611

Nice, you use a 1989 reference too counter my claim that your team is the softest, handbag carrying team of the AFL today. Makes sense

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Nice, you use a 1989 reference too counter my claim that your team is the softest, handbag carrying team of the AFL today. Makes sense

No actually, I used a picture of a sign put up outside Geelong the night before the 2008 GF.

Makes sense.

 

[WWSD]

The plan of letting go Mitchell and Lewis for your promising and upcoming midfields would be a sound one if these players existed at the club.

A fit JOM and Tom Mitchell would of strengthened a glaring weakness with sam Mitchell and Lewis still there. Now we have no JOM playing and Tom Mitchell being the whole midfield.

Who else is a genuine mid at Hawthorn? Serious question as I can't think of any

You'll see in October.

 

[Blue1980]

You'll see in October.

So they don't exist currently on a hawthorn list.

Who is this mystery midfielder or midfielders they are recruiting?

 

[Walshawk]

Well no that's not really how it works in the AFL, you bought a defective item with major injury concerns for top $, you even knew what you were buying had major concerns yet paid way overs for it, it's simply not comparable.

We all know we paid overs but we won't know how much over for another year or two will we?

 

[Walshawk]

The plan of letting go Mitchell and Lewis for your promising and upcoming midfields would be a sound one if these players existed at the club.

A fit JOM and Tom Mitchell would of strengthened a glaring weakness with sam Mitchell and Lewis still there. Now we have no JOM playing and Tom Mitchell being the whole midfield.

Who else is a genuine mid at Hawthorn? Serious question as I can't think of any.

You can say his is the price you pay for so many flags, and that's fine.

What I and many others are arguing against is the denial many hawthorn fans seem to have of their current list and the strange belief that somehow the 2016 trade period was some kind of genius move that only the trained eye can see.

The reality was what they did last year makes no real sense. If they thought they could still contend keep Mitchell and Lewis. If not, why bring in vickery and Henderson, as well as selling any chance of getting a fair bit of talent in by getting JOM. Only explanation is they are so far up their own asses after the premierships clarko and co think anything they do will come off.

Yes it's hard to believe but a small (vocal) number of posters maintain that we did not stuff up the post season. And in the real (non BF) world, all Hawthorn fans know that we are further away from a flag than we have been since 2002.

 

[WWSD]

So they don't exist currently on a hawthorn list.

Who is this mystery midfielder or midfielders they are recruiting?

You'll see. Hawthorn know exactly who they've got already. They target players well ahead of time.

 

[Spursfan]

Yes it's hard to believe but a small (vocal) number of posters maintain that we did not stuff up the post season. And in the real (non BF) world, all Hawthorn fans know that we are further away from a flag than we have been since 2002.

We were sliding further away from a flag even if we did nothing last post season. Obviously Mitchell has been sensational but the pick swap with St Kilda has killed us. It will be forgotten in years to come but the f--wits at GC could've had another top pick this year but wanted to hold out for a lesser deal just to spite O'Meara. We should've got more for Lewis, I think that was a poorly executed scenario. Going into the trade period I expected to give up 2016 and 17 1st rounders but to lose Sam Mitchell, Lewis and Hill and some how not keep a decent 2nd rounder somewhere was a crap outcome.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Abassi fighting the good fight

 

[Vindicater]

Abassi fighting the good fight

As a good cult leader does.

 

[TEDDY24INC]

No actually, I used a picture of a sign put up outside Geelong the night before the 2008 GF.

Makes sense.

10 years ago, still a long time ago

 

[Boxhead_31]

So they don't exist currently on a hawthorn list.

Who is this mystery midfielder or midfielders they are recruiting?

Check the "Big Fish" thread on the Hawk Board, they are getting Dusty, Fyfe, May and Lever don't you know

 

[threesixpio]

Check the "Big Fish" thread on the Hawk Board, they are getting Dusty, Fyfe, May and Lever don't you know

Spend a bit of time there?

#obsessed

 

[Boxhead_31]

Spend a bit of time there?

#obsessed

When I need a laugh I go there for a chuckle

 

[threesixpio]

what? We had 3 premierships in a decade. You think that's not comparable? Please!

And that attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. You think there is something about the quality of being Hawthorn that leads to success. That's exactly it.

You got a priority pick and snagged Franklin and Roughead (great drafting). Built a good team and snagged one in 2008. Used the success to lure FA's, and then the great accident of history allowed you to artificially sustain your time at the top.

Now it seems very much that Clarko is drinking his own bathwater big time. I guess we'll find out

Only FA we got was Frawley. Oh man - we've had this argument beforehand Lance

 

[threesixpio]

and he was supposed to be back after the break, doing a "training block".

Now? From Clarko's mouth himself, JOM won't be back after the break, but apparently some time after that. Because he's doing a solid training block. And they "think" they might "eventually" get a good player.

Not that I'm sure why anyone would believe them. They said he'd be back in a few weeks. Then they said he'd be back after the bye. Now it's some unspecified time beyond that.

But don't tell the kool aid chuggers on the Hawkes board any different. According to some of them it actually means that they are super confident he'll come good shortly. For some reason.

These are the same fans, mind you, who spent 4 years telling Essendon fans quite rightly how naive they were for believing the best of their club and thinking that they tell the truth. Apparently Hawthorne can do no wrong. Now where have I heard that kind of thing before?

Very odd analogy. Recruiting an injured player and saying that he will be ready in two rounds rather than four or five is equivalent to running a club wide doping program?

Yeeeeep

 

[Pessimistic]

Very odd analogy. Recruiting an injured player and saying that he will be ready in two rounds rather than four or five is equivalent to running a club wide doping program?

Yeeeeep

Not to mention spending multiple millions of dollars covering up and delaying fair punishment

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

10 years ago, still a long time ago

If only a sign was erected the night before the 2013 Prelim.

 

[doppleganger]

1. Not putting all eggs into one basket - that's way too dramatic. Herald sun stuff. We've put it to omeara AND mitchell (two eggs/baskets) and half that equation is performing superbly. A free agent midfielder, if we can manage this offseason well enough, would spread the load three ways. I know that's a lot less dramatic than "all eggs in one basket" but I think that's where the club is heading with it.

It is actually leveraging a quote from a Hawk.

You could have still got a free agent without blowing 3 top picks on JOM.

2. Vickery is a disappointment. Clarkson has always tried to bring in ruck/forward types. (Peter Everett, David hale, mcevoy) It made sense if he could draw talls away from roughy but he's not cutting it. Clarkson also likes people competing for spots in the 22. He seems to avoid the 'selection by default for young players'. Vickery is also ruck cover. I think we wanted witts but couldn't get that deal done.

It would make sense if Vickery was 20% better as a player. But he's not.

O'Brien however is now taking his chances and it's great to see. Schoey also just not cutting it.

Clarkson got rid of Spida.
McEvoy is showing this year he is a ruckman.

If you are rebuilding why are you bothering with stop gaps like Vickery?

3. Henderson is a completely different playerto mitchell or Lewis. He's an outside player and was clearly cover for losing brad hill. You're confusing two needs. Henderson has been in and out of the side as too billy hartung. They compete for the wing spot - however the henderson pickup is proving very useful with grant birchall on the sidelines most of the season. It's a stop gap..

It isnt the type of player, it is the contradictory messages that you had to let Mitchell and Lewis go to rebuild, but then recruit Henderson?

If you are rebuilding you give kids a chance, not bring in senior stop gap type players.

So it's easy enough to make sense of these decisions if you actually put some thought into it. The decisions are made in context of available options (we needed a ruck/forward because ceglar was injured and roughy's recovery unknown - who else was available?). The assessment was made at the end of the season that our list was way off it so we made huge changes.

If the assessment is made that you list was way off it, why are you bringing in stop gaps?

And who forgot to tell Clarko that his list was way off it!?

But it's that midfield that is a disaster and we are one offseason into a complete overhaul.

Maybe my attention span is too long for the modern world and I might be a little conservative here but rebuilds usually take more than half a season.

Your midfield was poor last year, yet you tip out the best 2 of them...

But again, are the Hawks rebuilding?

 

[threesixpio]

It is actually leveraging a quote from a Hawk.

You could have still got a free agent without blowing 3 top picks on JOM.

Clarkson got rid of Spida.
McEvoy is showing this year he is a ruckman.

If you are rebuilding why are you bothering with stop gaps like Vickery?

It isnt the type of player, it is the contradictory messages that you had to let Mitchell and Lewis go to rebuild, but then recruit Henderson?

If you are rebuilding you give kids a chance, not bring in senior stop gap type players.

If the assessment is made that you list was way off it, why are you bringing in stop gaps?

And who forgot to tell Clarko that his list was way off it!?


Your midfield was poor last year, yet you tip out the best 2 of them...

But again, are the Hawks rebuilding?

Three top picks? Maths not your strong point?

Vickery was insurance for Rough and Ceglar who were either injured or very unwell.

The point about about Henderson is not a bad point. That said - you can't put pressure on young players to improve without others being around. Henderson puts pressure on Hartung to perform

Don't under-estimate the injuries we have this year though

 

[doppleganger]

Three top picks? Maths not your strong point?

You gave GC pick 10 from the 2006 draft.
You are giving 1st round of 2017 (currently pick 2) to the Saints.
You are giving 2nd rouns of 2017 (currently pick 20) to the Suns.

Pick 2, 10 and 20 for JOM and pick 68.

Do you even math?

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Abassi fighting the good fight

So that's what they call trolling these days