Bluemour Discussion Thread IV

[Malifice]

Pick 1/2 + say 17 adelaide pick if Gibbs leaves is where i think Kellys value is at . Dream come true if its just pick 1 or 2 .

Mate, he's out of contract. Pick 1 or 2 alone will do it. Moreso if we land Pick 1 (PSD looms as an option). They would have to take it. And its fair. If Cripps was out of contract and wanted to head west, we'd take 1 or 2 for him. We would want more, but he's OOC. It is what it is.

Id be more than happy with Cripps Hopper Shiel Murphy and our first pick this year together with Fisher Cuningham + SPS .

Murphy is irrelevant. Next year is irrelevant for anything other than getting games into the kids. The ONLY timeline that matters is 2020 onwards. We want to be hitting 2020 with as many gun players aged 25 and under as we can. Players on the list at present aged 28 and older are placeholders to protect the kids and stop weekly floggings like Melbourne got.

We are currently engaged on a slow, methodical reset and rebuild of the list aiming to be a force again early next decade. Forget Gibbs, Kruezer, Murphy etc. Their time is done. They are there for an experienced core and to hand over the baton. Again, it is what it is.

 

[Keyza]

I wonder if our poor end to the year will turn off any prospective trade targets like Kelly...fingers crossed it doesn't like with Marchbank.

This has become an issue in recent years. We cannot seem to finish off a season on a strong note and carry momentum into the next year.
It affects memberships as well.
I am glad we signed up most of our young players a couple of months ago when we were going a lot better.
It really is deflating for us supporters too.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We need Shiel. Would like Kelly but Shiel next year should be a priority. Would rather pay the salary and get Shiel for free via free agency

Shiel becomes a free agent in 2019, not next year.

We get Kelly in 2017 by trade. Draft the best mids we can in 2018. We get Shiel end of 2019 by fa.

Problems solved.

 

[Malifice]

This has become an issue in recent years. We cannot seem to finish off a season on a strong note and carry momentum into the next year.

That happens with a young list. They drop off badly because they arent mentally or physically ready to be getting up for games week in and week out, particularly when the season is done.

Clubs have been making an effort to shut down Gibbs (in particular) and Murphy in recent weeks. After those two are taken care of and shut down, its kids like (Cunners, SPS and Fisher) in the midfield who are easily pushed off the ball, more kids down back (Weitering, Marchbank, Williamson, Plowman) dealing with bigger bodied forwards, and more kids up forward (Curnow, SOSOS, McKay).

They're always going to get smashed, particularly at the back end of the year.

We have a smattering of experience with Simpson and Docherty down back, and Casboult and Wright up forwards, but it's not enough.

It's something for the coaching group to work on for sure. But of course, thats the whole point. Once those kids have gotten a few more years into them in the gym and on the ground, they'll be mentally and physically tougher, and will know what it takes.

 

[SafeAsMilk]

I don't like to predict how trades will pan out because I'm always miles off but if Kelly wants to come, I'd trade a future first instead of this year's. Then trade 2019's first into 2018.

My reasoning is, if next year's draft really is better quality then we'll find quality outside of the top 3, unlike this year.

e.g.

- Gibbs for Crows 2017 & 2018 1st (18 & 18)

- Our 2018 1st and Crow's 2017 1st for Kelly

IN:
2017: Kelly, Pick 2
2018: Pick 18, top 10 pick (traded for our 2019 1st)

 

[passmark]

If I was Kelly I'd be looking at how Carlton might perform with Gibbs out out and ask myself, "do I want to be tagged every week?"

 

[Malifice]

I don't like to predict how trades will pan out because I'm always miles off but if Kelly wants to come, I'd trade a future first instead of this year's. Then trade 2019's first into 2018.

My reasoning is, if next year's draft really is better quality then we'll find quality outside of the top 3, unlike this year.

e.g.

- Gibbs for Crows 2017 & 2018 1st (18 & 18)

- Our 2018 1st and Crow's 2017 1st for Kelly

IN:
2017: Kelly, Pick 2
2018: Pick 18, top 10 pick (traded for our 2019 1st)

Surely if next years draft is stronger, we would want to keep our pick (likely pick 1 next year).

I would trade Gibbs for pick 9-10 from the Dogs and Redpath (with Gibbs going to Adelaide and Lever going to the Dogs). I would let Casboult leave as a F/A netting us Band 3 (Pick 19-20 this year) to get us back into the second round, and trade pick 1-2 for Kelly. Boekhoest and a late pick can go to Freo for Balic.

Lose: Gibbs, Casboult, Boeky, pick 1-2, pick 75.
Gain: Kelly, Redpath, Balic, picks 9-10 and 19-20.

Kelly is a massive upgrade on Gibbs, and Redpath can fill the KPF void left by Casboult for a few years while McKay, Curnow, SOSOS and Kerr develop. Balic is an upgrade on Boeky, with more upside. We still have two picks in the top 20 (at 9-10 and 19-20) to take to the draft - a mid first rounder, and a very early second to find two very good players.

 

[MitchRobinson12]

I like this Lukas Webb kid, we should enquire might be able to get him cheap, 21 years old, #27 from 2014 draft.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Why on earth would we give that up for Kelly?

That alone tells you he's not worth that.

Its debatable isnt it we wont want to give up more than our early pick and is why i said id rather we go after Hopper . GWS of course will want more and possibly rightly so . If it was our Patrick Cripps on the market would we be happy with just 1 early pick as compensation ? If no then theres your answer .

 

[HBF]

I like this Lukas Webb kid, we should enquire might be able to get him cheap, 21 years old, #27 from 2014 draft.

I liked him in his draft year as well. Got a killer left foot.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Mate, he's out of contract. Pick 1 or 2 alone will do it. Moreso if we land Pick 1 (PSD looms as an option). They would have to take it. And its fair. If Cripps was out of contract and wanted to head west, we'd take 1 or 2 for him. We would want more, but he's OOC. It is what it is.



Murphy is irrelevant. Next year is irrelevant for anything other than getting games into the kids. The ONLY timeline that matters is 2020 onwards. We want to be hitting 2020 with as many gun players aged 25 and under as we can. Players on the list at present aged 28 and older are placeholders to protect the kids and stop weekly floggings like Melbourne got.

We are currently engaged on a slow, methodical reset and rebuild of the list aiming to be a force again early next decade. Forget Gibbs, Kruezer, Murphy etc. Their time is done. They are there for an experienced core and to hand over the baton. Again, it is what it is.

Your possibly forgetting about the relationship we have with GWS . As ive quoted to Jimmae if Cripps was on the market would we accept 1 pick yes very early for Patrick i highly doubt it . The second pick if any could be a little later if needed but again i highly doubt one pick will do it . PSD i dont engage in conversation about it because its defunct irrelevant and totally of no bearing on trading these days .

 

[I bleed Blue]

Gee I hope McKay turns into a joe daniher bloke is a fair dinkum star

 

[Malifice]

Your possibly forgetting about the relationship we have with GWS . As ive quoted to Jimmae if Cripps was on the market would we accept 1 pick yes very early for Patrick i highly doubt it . The second pick if any could be a little later if needed but again i highly doubt one pick will do it . PSD i dont engage in conversation about it because its defunct irrelevant and totally of no bearing on trading these days .

Dude; pick 1 or 2 on its own would do. That would be our offer. Just that. That's it. And GWS would take it, and draft Fogarty or whomever.

If Kelly nominates us and leaves, pick 1 or 2 for an uncontracted player is fair. Doesnt matter who it is. If Kelly instead nominates the Saints, they would have to hand over picks 8 and 9, and that would be all.

Both offers (pick 1-2 and picks 8 and 9 or 10) are valued the same (at around 3000 points). Heck; GWS could swap pick 1 to the Saints for 8+9 and they'd consider it.

If GWS asked for more than pick 1 or 2 we say (politely) 'GAGF'. We take pick 1-2 to the draft and tell Kelly GWS are being unreasonable and to put a price on his head over what Brisbane can afford (if necessary), and to enter the PSD where we'll pick him up if available. That wouldnt happen because the Giants would accept pick 1 or 2 and hand him over.

Its a fair deal. If the roles were reversed and Cripps was leaving uncontracted to WCE, I would accept 1 or 2 on its own as well.

 

[passmark]

Gee I hope McKay turns into a joe daniher bloke is a fair dinkum star

I'm not sure it's possible for him to be a Joe Daniher, but he may have some qualities Joe can't match. I think Harry might end up a better contested mark but Joe will win mark of the year a few times if backlines let him get a run at it. There's no pack he can't jump over.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Dude; pick 1 or 2 on its own would do. That would be our offer. Just that. That's it. And GWS would take it, and draft Fogarty or whomever.

If Kelly nominates us and leaves, pick 1 or 2 for an uncontracted player is fair. Doesnt matter who it is. If Kelly instead nominates the Saints, they would have to hand over picks 8 and 9, and that would be all.

Both offers (pick 1-2 and picks 8 and 9 or 10) are valued the same (at around 3000 points). Heck; GWS could swap pick 1 to the Saints for 8+9 and they'd consider it.

If GWS asked for more than pick 1 or 2 we say (politely) 'GAGF'. We take pick 1-2 to the draft and tell Kelly GWS are being unreasonable and to put a price on his head over what Brisbane can afford (if necessary), and to enter the PSD where we'll pick him up if available.

Fair enough your right im wrong we shall see but i dont agree our first pick will do it .
Either way think id rather go with Hopper if Gibbs leaves and take his second pick to the draft together with our first pick . Look at other trades like Saad + Balic for an instant injection into the side . And target Shiel .

 

[Blueyourmyboy!!]

Kelly's worth is what he was drafted at pick 2 and that's what we'll end up with. Yewww!!

 

[Blueboys7]

If I was Kelly I'd be looking at how Carlton might perform with Gibbs out out and ask myself, "do I want to be tagged every week?"

It's a valid point but ssshhhh don't tell him we suck.

 

[Malifice]

Fair enough your right im wrong we shall see but i dont agree our first pick will do it .
Either way think id rather go with Hopper if Gibbs leaves and take his second pick to the draft together with our first pick . Look at other trades like Saad + Balic for an instant injection into the side . And target Shiel .

Based on the rumors on this thread, what I think will happen is:

1) We finish last (the Lions beat North in the final round, and we sink under them on %).
2) Lever nominates the Dogs. We send Gibbs to Adelaide, they send Lever to the Dogs, the Dogs send us pick 10 + Redpath.
3) Casboult departs to the Tiges for 4 years at 2 million as a F/A. We get Band 3 from the AFL as compo (pick 19).
4) Kelly nominates us, and we send pick 1 to the Giants for Kelly (maybe also a swap of picks next year in our favor). Picks 1 and 19 for Kelly and Hopper also works.
5) We send Boeky to Freo for Balic and a swap of later picks.

We lose Gibbs, Boekhoest, Casboult and pick 1. We gain Kelly, Redpath, Balic, picks 10 and pick 19.

 

[Wily trout]

Josh Kelly is 20th in the AFL for contested possessions and 11th for total tackles. He averages 5 clearances per match (the same as Murphy). Despite getting many of his touches contested, he's also 12th for total effective disposals, 10th for I50's and 11th for score involvements.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-greater-western-sydney-giants--joshua-kelly?advv=Y

Look at those numbers man. Look at them. He's a 'run both ways, get his own ball, damaging inside/ outside high output mid who gets it 30 times a game and has fantastic disposal'. He's racking up better stats than Murphy this year (who is having a great year), and he's only 22.

If we finish with pick 1, I'd hand it over for him in a heartbeat.

Fair enough, but I do worry about the cost, if he cost pick 1, then fine........I s'pose

 

[Malifice]

Fair enough, but I do worry about the cost, if he cost pick 1, then fine........I s'pose

If he was in the open draft, he'd go pick 1.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Based on the rumors on this thread, what I think will happen is:

1) We finish last (the Lions beat North in the final round, and we sink under them on %).
2) Lever nominates the Dogs. We send Gibbs to Adelaide, they send Lever to the Dogs, the Dogs send us pick 10 + Redpath.
3) Casboult departs to the Tiges for 4 years at 2 million as a F/A. We get Band 3 from the AFL as compo (pick 19).
4) Kelly nominates us, and we send pick 1 to the Giants for Kelly (maybe also a swap of picks next year in our favor). Picks 1 and 19 for Kelly and Hopper also works.
5) We send Boeky to Freo for Balic and a swap of later picks.

We lose Gibbs, Boekhoest, Casboult and pick 1. We gain Kelly, Redpath, Balic, picks 10 and pick 19.

This would be the dream scenario.

Absolutely desperate for that band 3 for Casboult, it just has to happen. But I'm hugely sceptical about the compensation system and fear that the AFL will **** us over again.

 

[Malifice]

If we dont land Kelly, Id look at seeing if the Saints were keen on trading pick 1 for picks 8 + 9.

Having picks 8, 9, 10 and 19 could really help set us up.

 

[Malifice]

This would be the dream scenario.

Absolutely desperate for that band 3 for Casboult, it just has to happen. But I'm hugely sceptical about the compensation system and fear that the AFL will **** us over again.

If we finish last, they'll give us band 3 (in lieu of a Priority pick). 4 years at 2 million is borderline band 3.

4 years is a long contract, and 500k per season is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Wily trout]

If he was in the open draft, he'd go pick 1.

Ok, I'm back on the Kelly bandwagon, will make my 17 year old daughter happy if nothing else.

 

[LanceRomance]

If we dont land Kelly, Id look at seeing if the Saints were keen on trading pick 1 for picks 8 + 9.

Having picks 8, 9, 10 and 19 could really help set us up.

Trade pick 1?

Hmmmm