Bluemour Discussion Thread IV

[ParapMarkets]

This is what some people are overlooking. Effectively we traded a 27 year old HBF & a 2nd round draft pick for SPS, Marchbank & Pickett, all of them under 21 & 1st round draft picks. We wouldn't have got the deal over the line otherwise.

Win/win trade imo. Geelong got a bargain and we did what was necessary to get Marchbank whilst keeping pick 5.

 

[PP34]

I would love to get Kelly, but since losing Cripps, I feel another inside bull should be the main priority. If that is Hopper then great or go to the draft for one. Seeing most of the kids struggling last night against bigger bodies, maybe we need to be focussing on a blend that leans more towards trading for more mature ready players this year like Hopper, Smith, Whitfield. Then draft best available with whatever picks we have left. I know another preseason will see players like Cunners, Fisher, Samo come out stronger and fitter, but we need to remain competitive for the whole season not 2/3. I do have a sneaky feeling we will get looked after a little by the AFL. Either with Levi compensation being Frawley like or a decent priority pick (just a feeling)

Don't really agree. Once Cripps is back our midfield looks a lot different. If Gibbs stays we've got two blokes who can do plenty of the hard work.

We are crying out for someone as fast and silky as Kelly. Murpy provides run and carry but I feel like his disposal has let him down a fair bit this year, especially going into the 50. Same with a lot of our team.

Watching the game last night it looked to me like we really lack some guys that can damage teams with their leg speed. We've been pretty slow a number of times this year.

Kelly is no slouch in the contested area either. No idea why so many on here continue to act like he is an Andrew Gaff type. He is far from it.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

We traded Tuohy and a 2nd round pick for Marchbank and Pickett.

I'm a little down that Tuohy seems upset with Carlton ATM, was certainly a favourite of mine.

That trade we did though, in hindsight, you do it every time.

Bigger picture we got Caleb & Pickett might be the icing, for Zach. I'm very comfortable with that.

 

[Bluey24]

We're just entering now the first trading / list management period .......... post-honey moon

This was always going to be a time wehre divisive and strong opinions emerged - too early for kids to shine, long enough for some spectators to forget / stop caring

All in all, I'm really proud to be a CFC member - most supporters still respect and understand where the club is at

 

[ray8182]

Don't really agree. Once Cripps is back our midfield looks a lot different. If Gibbs stays we've got two blokes who can do plenty of the hard work.

We are crying out for someone as fast and silky as Kelly. Murpy provides run and carry but I feel like his disposal has let him down a fair bit this year, especially going into the 50. Same with a lot of our team.

Watching the game last night it looked to me like we really lack some guys that can damage teams with their leg speed. We've been pretty slow a number of times this year.

Kelly is no slouch in the contested area either. No idea why so many on here continue to act like he is an Andrew Gaff type. He is far from it.

I think the point is that Cripps leaves a massive hole when injured. You can't afford to be so dependant on one player when you build a list. Gibbs is useful in the clearances but not someone l would want to rely on.

We need another player who is good on the inside. Doesn't necessarily need to be a pure inside player but strong in that department. If Gibbs leaves next year and Cripps has a significant injury it would be a disaster. Carlton would become uncompetitive because of a poorly structured list.

Re Murphy disposal, l noticed last year he wasn't kicking that well. I think he has played some really good footy this year but his kicking is a concern at times.


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[Metalcrusher]

I think the point is that Cripps leaves a massive hole when injured. You can't afford to be so dependant on one player when you build a list. Gibbs is useful in the clearances but not someone l would want to rely on.

We need another player who is good on the inside. Doesn't necessarily need to be a pure inside player but strong in that department. If Gibbs leaves next year and Cripps has a significant injury it would be a disaster. Carlton would become uncompetitive because of a poorly structured list.

Re Murphy disposal, l noticed last year he wasn't kicking that well. I think he has played some really good footy this year but his kicking is a concern at times.


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Prime example is Adelaide. They shut down Sloane for the better part of 2.5 quarters and the pies were flogging the pants off the crows at one stage.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Can someone please tell me, why on earth would Kelly want to play for the worst team in the comp? Unless money is a factor, I just can't see it regardless of rumours.

I feel a lot of pro Kelly posters on here are getting a bit ahead of themselves and are going to be disappointed come trade time.

Chris Judd picked us when we were shit house.

I'm sure Kelly is intelligent enough to understand where we're at as a club. The direction we are going is very promising despite the ladder position.

We were in front in the last quarter against Adelaide, North, Melbourne (both times we played them), and Saints.

If our team wasn't filled with teenagers/early 20 year olds we'd have won most of those games and been in the hunt for finals.

Not to mention wins over the Bombers, Swans and Giants and other close losses.

Surely he'll realise with his inclusion along with gradual improvement from our younger players, a move up the ladder isn't far away at all.

I think it's crucial we get him because when Shiel goes out of contract in 2019, having Kelly will likely be a key factor in Shiel's decision.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

This is what some people are overlooking. Effectively we traded a 27 year old HBF & a 2nd round draft pick for SPS, Marchbank & Pickett, all of them under 21 & 1st round draft picks. We wouldn't have got the deal over the line otherwise.

We already had pick 5 which became pick 6 when GWS matched our offer for Setterfield.
Very happy we got SPS.
So we traded Tuohy and our second for Smedts, Marchbank and Pickett.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

With the number of players we could delist, I'd be very open to trading pick 1 or 2 to the saints for 8 & 9 or whatever it ends up. If the recruiters think we can get two really good players that suit our needs in the top ten, then why wouldn't we? It's no secret we need more quality youth. Use the opportunities that present themselves to do that.

Do we still get Cerra and Coffield at picks 8 and 9?

 

[Cutz]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Tuohy was surplus to our needs and still had currency while being 27yo with 4 years of serviceable footy left.

Marchbank will be key part of our back 6 for the next 10-12 years.

Yeah, we could have used Tuohy last night but what difference would it have made?

In 4 years time when Tuohy has retired and Marchbank is a 24 year old All Australian defender in a successful Carlton side, no-one will give a stuff that Tuohy might have made us slightly more competitive a few years earlier.


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Great post this.... Deals like this are and how you rebuild lists..which is what we said we were going to do from day 1..



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[Cutz]

I think 90% of posters are getting it wrong! We need inside mids not outside, we have Murph sps Fish Doc etc, we need inside grunt to assist crippa

We do.. And it will arrive over the next two years.. The back line is set.. Particularly with the addition of Jones to that back six.. Byrnes best is still to come.

The forward line needs time. Both on the ground and in the gym..

The missing piece to the puzzle is the mid field.. And some depth to the list






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[Jorge]

In isolation we didn't get the best deal for Tuohy. But as a whole we had a good trade period.
Theory is that GWS told us to cave on Tuohy so they could get a free run at Deledio. They would then deal on Marchbank/Pickett & not match our Macreadie bid whilst we took Palmer's contract.

 

[HARKER]

In isolation we didn't get the best deal for Tuohy. But as a whole we had a good trade period.
Theory is that GWS told us to cave on Tuohy so they could get a free run at Deledio. They would then deal on Marchbank/Pickett & not match our Macreadie bid whilst we took Palmer's contract.

All you have to remember is this;

GWS weren't going to deal on Marchbank/Pickett with a second rounder, but did it for the first. That's all that matters.
Some may say that Geelong won out of the trade and they did.........but so did we as we got what we wanted, for a very good price.

 

[therubbernub]

I think the point is that Cripps leaves a massive hole when injured. You can't afford to be so dependant on one player when you build a list. Gibbs is useful in the clearances but not someone l would want to rely on.

We need another player who is good on the inside. Doesn't necessarily need to be a pure inside player but strong in that department. If Gibbs leaves next year and Cripps has a significant injury it would be a disaster. Carlton would become uncompetitive because of a poorly structured list.

Re Murphy disposal, l noticed last year he wasn't kicking that well. I think he has played some really good footy this year but his kicking is a concern at times.


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True Cripps missing is a massive hole. But name a club that has such a dominant player that wouldnt miss him if he was out. I agree the effect is heightened because of our rebuilding status. Take Dangerfield out of Geelong (see results two years ago) Freo (last year without Fyffe) as good examples and those two clubs had mature lists not youngsters expected to step into the breach.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

In three years time when Caleb is AA, we'll be saying Zac who?

 

[therubbernub]

Chris Judd picked us when we were shit house.

I'm sure Kelly is intelligent enough to understand where we're at as a club. The direction we are going is very promising despite the ladder position.

We were in front in the last quarter against Adelaide, North, Melbourne (both times we played them), and Saints.

If our team wasn't filled with teenagers/early 20 year olds we'd have won most of those games and been in the hunt for finals.

Not to mention wins over the Bombers, Swans and Giants and other close losses.

Surely he'll realise with his inclusion along with gradual improvement from our younger players, a move up the ladder isn't far away at all.

I think it's crucial we get him because when Shiel goes out of contract in 2019, having Kelly will likely be a key factor in Shiel's decision.

If I was Kelly , I would have immense faith in SOS. Compared to GC the GWS was able to build real depth of talent - all due in a large part to SOS. Then, if you want to look past those picks because of the massive help given to SOS by the AFL, the next step is to look at our last 2 years of drafting. All picks have lived up to expectations - if the player was targeted. So steak knife players dont count. It has been a remarkable effort - fully supported by our 5 rising star nominations. That is our future and if Kelly is looking, this is what he will see.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

SOS should just show Kelly the 66 Game Rebuild thread and he'll see where going upwards and onwards

 

[agro]

I think you are missing the point. We didn't need Tuohy. SOS low balled him so he would take the Cats offer. We've got countless others that can play half back.

Palmer being on the list is not taking the place of a future Chris Judd, its more likely preventing DVR or Tutt from an extra year.

GWS needed a first Rd pick to accommodate Richmond in the Deledio trade and salary cap room to fit him in, and we provided both by giving them Geelong's 2018 first and taking Palmers salary off their books.

You claimed SOS is naive in trading.

He is in no way naive, and is perhaps the most cunning negotiator of all the list managers. He has realised that picks and players aren't the only currency available in trading. List spots and salary cap room are the 2 commodities that we currently have in abundance and he is using them to our advantage to secure high end young talent.

You need to look at the big picture.


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Sorry you've missed my point - we did GWS the favour by taking Palmer and allowing them list space for them to bring in Deledio.

 

[Wily trout]

Don't really agree. Once Cripps is back our midfield looks a lot different. If Gibbs stays we've got two blokes who can do plenty of the hard work.

We are crying out for someone as fast and silky as Kelly. Murpy provides run and carry but I feel like his disposal has let him down a fair bit this year, especially going into the 50. Same with a lot of our team.

Watching the game last night it looked to me like we really lack some guys that can damage teams with their leg speed. We've been pretty slow a number of times this year.

Kelly is no slouch in the contested area either. No idea why so many on here continue to act like he is an Andrew Gaff type. He is far from it.

Fair enough, I agree with the leg speed theory too. Maybe Saad isN't a bad idea as well as Kelly. I would like to see our midfield run harder both ways, maybe Kelly will help this. We really miss Ed in this regard.

 

[agro]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Tuohy was surplus to our needs and still had currency while being 27yo with 4 years of serviceable footy left.

Marchbank will be key part of our back 6 for the next 10-12 years.

Yeah, we could have used Tuohy last night but what difference would it have made?

In 4 years time when Tuohy has retired and Marchbank is a 24 year old All Australian defender in a successful Carlton side, no-one will give a stuff that Tuohy might have made us slightly more competitive a few years earlier.


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If you want to talk about list building and surplus to our needs.

I'd rather have Tuohy running out of our backline for the next 4 years - distributing the ball with his kicking than Simpson whose kicking has been dreadful this year (and has been for the past few years) - Marchbank, Williamson etc will gain far more benefit.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

Sorry you've missed my point - we did GWS the favour by taking Palmer and allowing them list space for them to bring in Deledio.

Whether or not you feel taking Palmer off their list was part of the dealings for Marchbank or a favour is irrelevant.

Having him on our list for 1-2 years costs us nothing because we have salary cap space and a list devoid of talent in the bottom half.

All the while we maintain a good relationship with GWS which will assist in our future dealings with them.


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[Lawrence Angwin]

If you want to talk about list building and surplus to our needs.

I'd rather have Tuohy running out of our backline for the next 4 years - distributing the ball with his kicking than Simpson whose kicking has been dreadful this year (and has been for the past few years) - Marchbank, Williamson etc will gain far more benefit.

Are you suggesting Geelong would have accepted a 33 year old Simpson in lieu of Tuohy?

It is impossible to quantify what if any benefit Tuohy would have had on the development of our young defenders, but for the record I think your drastically underselling the quality of Simpson & his disposal.


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[PP34]

If you want to talk about list building and surplus to our needs.

I'd rather have Tuohy running out of our backline for the next 4 years - distributing the ball with his kicking than Simpson whose kicking has been dreadful this year (and has been for the past few years) - Marchbank, Williamson etc will gain far more benefit.

But Simpson had no currency.

It's as simple as that.

 

[agro]

But Simpson had no currency.

It's as simple as that.

I'm not suggesting that Simpson should have been traded instead, I do understand that Simpson has no trade currency.

You're not talking to Matthew Lloyd here.

I said I'd rather have Tuohy running out of the backline distributing the ball by foot than Simpson.

 

[therubbernub]

SOS should just show Kelly the 66 Game Rebuild thread and he'll see where going upwards and onwards

A quick instagram powerpoint preso will get him hooked. No doubt