UFC 214 Jones vs Cormier II

[Dan]

I feel bad for DC......Jones looked like he hadn't missed a beat. It was good fight for 2 1/2 rounds. If DC sticks around I can still see a 3rd fight happening down the track despite now having 2 losses to Jones.

Woodley/Maia was a stinker. I was looking forward to this fight the most on that card......for some reason I thought we were gonna get completely different fight to Woodley/Thompson 2. Not to be but credit to Woodley.......his pfp ranking should be in the top 5.

Cyborg being Cyborg.....although her fight did last longer than I thought it would. Cyborg vs Nunes is what I wanna see next.

 

[Macca81]

i just wish one of these UFC fighters would clock Dana in the face. Stupid bald campaigner walks around like he is invincible when he wouldnt be able to take a shot from Mighty Mouse. At the end of the Dc/JJ fight when DC pushed BJM away Dana got really animated trying to talk tough. So wish DC just winged a punch at Danas face.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

i just wish one of these UFC fighters would clock Dana in the face. Stupid bald campaigner walks around like he is invincible when he wouldnt be able to take a shot from Mighty Mouse. At the end of the Dc/JJ fight when DC pushed BJM away Dana got really animated trying to talk tough. So wish DC just winged a punch at Danas face.

Lol... I wouldn't have complained if that happened.

If anyone should smash Dana, tho, it's Woodley.

 

[Joker91]

Anyone have Cormier in front up until JJ kicked him in the head?

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

So much talk on the lad..here's his post-fight presser...

 

[Stu_Hibachi]

Anyone have Cormier in front up until JJ kicked him in the head?

Bisping and Florian had him up 2-0 although the general consensus was 1-1

 

[phantom13]

I thought 1-1

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Woodley's fight deserves every ounce of criticsm. Didnt Rogan say he threw the least punches in any title fight?? Shockingly boring fight from a bloke who can be so exciting. Next defence should be on a fight night card for pittance.

 

[phantom13]

Gotta cut DC a lot of slack given he had just had his brain scattered across the cage but I doubt he did himself any favours in terms of fans by cracking the shits and storming off from the decision. In any normal setting that looked horrendous and made him look like a piss poor loser, take your licks and stand there and cop the decision BUT as I said I don't think anyone who was KOd should be standing when that's done anyway.

 

[Sterge]

Gotta cut DC a lot of slack given he had just had his brain scattered across the cage but I doubt he did himself any favours in terms of fans by cracking the shits and storming off from the decision. In any normal setting that looked horrendous and made him look like a piss poor loser, take your licks and stand there and cop the decision BUT as I said I don't think anyone who was KOd should be standing when that's done anyway.

He was diagnosed with concussion post fight, you see some people with concussion do weird things Jack Riewoldt crawling up the stairs trying to hide from trainers for example on rewatching it looked like he genuinely wanted to go over and say something to JJ but people wouldn't let him.

 

[phantom13]

He was diagnosed with concussion post fight, you see some people with concussion do weird things Jack Riewoldt crawling up the stairs trying to hide from trainers for example on rewatching it looked like he genuinely wanted to go over and say something to JJ but people wouldn't let him.

To be fair he also had a look of pure hatred in his eyes, I wouldn't have wanted him anywhere near Jones at that point either.

 

[Gigantic]

There's footage with a camera angle that follows him for the whole 2 minutes after the stoppage. Probably the most disorientated I've seen someone look post-fight.

 

[phantom13]

DC just posted a pretty sincere message about the fight, congratulating Jon and his team and apologising to big John. He's a class act

 

[Nickos66]

Great card.

Re: Woodley - his reign has made the Welterweight division about the most dull and uninspired in recent history. Welterweight's no longer the murders row it used to be and no standout options particularly excite me for him next. I ******* hope he's not headlining the Perth card anytime soon or i'll be salty. Who forces him to throw leather? Nick Diaz? Cerrone would be good, regardless of the loss. Does Connor get a WW title shot? I don't want to see Robbie fight him again, for Robbies sake - he's too headstrong for his own good.

I was rooting for JBJ, but you've gotta feel for DC, he's a warrior and I had him in front up until that kick. Glad to see the humility of both men finally shine through post-fight.

 

[BradWCE]

I feel so bad for Cormier. He fought pefectly up until that high kick. Even though he fought perfectly he was well on his way to losing a decision imo. I've seen people say that Cormier was clearly up 2-0. There's nothing clear about it. A lot of MMA fans seem to completely ignore body work. Jones was destroying Cormier's body. Jones did that in the first fight too and some fans said Cormier's cardio was terrible. Nah, get your body battered like that and you won't be looking good in the 4th and 5th rounds. Jones was clearly winning the 1st round until Cormier landed some good shots late. Still probably not enough to steal it. 2nd round was close and could go either way. More likely Jones 2-0 than Cormier 2-0 imo. Jones was taking over in the 3rd before the high kick and I don't think Cormier had much hope of winning rounds 3, 4 or 5.

Cormier fought the fight he needed to win but it wasn't enough. He couldn't get stuck in the clinch for long periods at a time because Jones would win there over time. He stayed on the outside and tried to enter the pocket and take advantage there. He did that well but it was way easier for Jones to land consistently. Jones being so much longer had easy opportunities to land strikes while Cormier had to work really hard to land his. Jones looked a lot better at range than he has in the past. I think that's due to more work with Gibson and less with Winkeljohn. His fundamentals looked sounder from distance and he wasn't throwing random weird s**t that you often get from Winkeljohn trained fighters. He also kicked through Cormier with that high kick rather than just kicking to reach Cormier as Winkeljohn's fighters often do.

Here's Cormier 3 years ago talking about being susceptible to left high kicks:

Rumble went on to have success both times with them and then Jones did what he did yesterday.

Woodley/Maia was hilarious. Maia did his best but Woodley's too strong, too fast and too good a wrestler. I cut Woodley some slack against Thompson because that was a tough stylistic match-up. Maia was an easy one for him. I did find it pretty funny that Maia defended the Woodley forward explosions better than Thompson did despite being a worse striker and less athletic.

Woodley/his team must really overthink things. Woodley would have done much better if he pressured Maia whenever possible. Backing up allowed Maia to look for takedowns and throw strikes. When Woodley was pushing Maia back Maia couldn't look for takedowns. Maia's takedown game only works when he's pressuring. He could only throw strikes and he was forced to so that Woodley wouldn't just charge at him. That would have opened Maia up over time and made it much easier for Woodley to land more often and do more damage.

Some of those rounds were so close and it was completely unnecessary for Woodley. I think Woodley won all 5 rounds but 2 judges gave Maia a round lol. A Woodley/Shields rematch would probably be just as unnecessarily close as it was the first time if they fought tomorrow. Shields isn't really a better striker than Maia but he's a higher volume one.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

I feel so bad for Cormier. He fought pefectly up until that high kick. Even though he fought perfectly he was well on his way to losing a decision imo. I've seen people say that Cormier was clearly up 2-0. There's nothing clear about it. A lot of MMA fans seem to completely ignore body work. Jones was destroying Cormier's body. Jones did that in the first fight too and some fans said Cormier's cardio was terrible. Nah, get your body battered like that and you won't be looking good in the 4th and 5th rounds. Jones was clearly winning the 1st round until Cormier landed some good shots late. Still probably not enough to steal it. 2nd round was close and could go either way. More likely Jones 2-0 than Cormier 2-0 imo. Jones was taking over in the 3rd before the high kick and I don't think Cormier had much hope of winning rounds 3, 4 or 5.

Cormier fought the fight he needed to win but it wasn't enough. He couldn't get stuck in the clinch for long periods at a time because Jones would win there over time. He stayed on the outside and tried to enter the pocket and take advantage there. He did that well but it was way easier for Jones to land consistently. Jones being so much longer had easy opportunities to land strikes while Cormier had to work really hard to land his. Jones looked a lot better at range than he has in the past. I think that's due to more work with Gibson and less with Winkeljohn. His fundamentals looked sounder from distance and he wasn't throwing random weird s**t that you often get from Winkeljohn trained fighters. He also kicked through Cormier with that high kick rather than just kicking to reach Cormier as Winkeljohn's fighters often do.

Here's Cormier 3 years ago talking about being susceptible to left high kicks:

Rumble went on to have success both times with them and then Jones did what he did yesterday.

Woodley/Maia was hilarious. Maia did his best but Woodley's too strong, too fast and too good a wrestler. I cut Woodley some slack against Thompson because that was a tough stylistic match-up. Maia was an easy one for him. I did find it pretty funny that Maia defended the Woodley forward explosions better than Thompson did despite being a worse striker and less athletic.

Woodley/his team must really overthink things. Woodley would have done much better if he pressured Maia whenever possible. Backing up allowed Maia to look for takedowns and throw strikes. When Woodley was pushing Maia back Maia couldn't look for takedowns. Maia's takedown game only works when he's pressuring. He could only throw strikes and he was forced to so that Woodley wouldn't just charge at him. That would have opened Maia up over time and made it much easier for Woodley to land more often and do more damage.

Some of those rounds were so close and it was completely unnecessary for Woodley. I think Woodley won all 5 rounds but 2 judges gave Maia a round lol. A Woodley/Shields rematch would probably be just as unnecessarily close as it was the first time if they fought tomorrow. Shields isn't really a better striker than Maia but he's a higher volume one.

You really don't like Winkeljohn haha.

 

[BradWCE]

You really don't like Winkeljohn haha.

I guess haha. I've thought that he's not that great for a while. His comments on McGregor/Mayweather were dumb and after seeing them I decided I may as well say what I think about him. He's not a terrible striking coach; he's no Edmond Tarverdyan or Rick Little. He's also not as good as Hooft, Cordeiro, Wittman, or Ludwig though imo. To me he's an alright striking coach that people often claim is a great one.

Very few of the MMA fighters he trains are good MMA boxers. People will point to Holm to show his great boxing training skills. She got badly outboxed by Shevchenko and mostly outboxed by de Randamie. I can't think of someone he trains who has a great jab. He focuses on flashy stuff over basic fundamental strikes. Condit's the perfect example. I really like him but he's really overrated as a technical striker. He heavily relied on his chin and would have been knocked out a lot if he didn't have one of the very best chins in MMA. Winkeljohn often doesn't get his fighters to kick with much power when they round kick because he doesn't have them turning their hips over.

Another thing is he won't stop a fight when he's cornering his fighters. This isn't really unique to him in MMA. It just adds to his bad points. His refusal to stop the fight when Holm was getting destroyed by Mathis was disgusting. The referee did an awful job and Winkeljohn didn't do any better.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

I guess haha. I've thought that he's not that great for a while. His comments on McGregor/Mayweather were dumb and after seeing them I decided I may as well say what I think about him. He's not a terrible striking coach; he's no Edmond Tarverdyan or Rick Little. He's also not as good as Hooft, Cordeiro, Wittman, or Ludwig though imo. To me he's an alright striking coach that people often claim is a great one.

Very few of the MMA fighters he trains are good MMA boxers. People will point to Holm to show his great boxing training skills. She got badly outboxed by Shevchenko and mostly outboxed by de Randamie. I can't think of someone he trains who has a great jab. He focuses on flashy stuff over basic fundamental strikes. Condit's the perfect example. I really like him but he's really overrated as a technical striker. He heavily relied on his chin and would have been knocked out a lot if he didn't have one of the very best chins in MMA. Winkeljohn often doesn't get his fighters to kick with much power when they round kick because he doesn't have them turning their hips over.

Another thing is he won't stop a fight when he's cornering his fighters. This isn't really unique to him in MMA. It just adds to his bad points. His refusal to stop the fight when Holm was getting destroyed by Mathis was disgusting. The referee did an awful job and Winkeljohn didn't do any better.

That's fair. I honestly dont that pay huge attention to coaches, but it does seem a lot of guys that speak about their striking and improvements usually are mentioning Gibson.

 

[phantom13]

BradWCE as usual on the money. Seems Winkeljohn fighters are usually well game planned but ive never been sure how much of that is him. Watching Bones start to use his length and range better than before, then use step in elbows and knees at closer range was scary, couple that with his strong clinch game and he becomes almost the perfect fighter.

Also totally agree on the body work comment, so few fighters seem to understand the importance of body work, those that do usually win.

 

[Ry009]

Yep +1 on BradWCE, those thought out posts are why I'm glad you came back of hiatus.

Bang on about the round scoring and body shots.

I think a lot of people from fans/ex fighters/ and even judges get cognitive bias when a fighter does a lot better than they think or one they would rather see win.

Woodley/Thompson I was probably a good example of this.

DC I think people were surprised seeing him do better than they expected, but Jones was chipping away just as much as DC was on him,
Jones just has that ability to hit another gear and the rest is history.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I think a lot of people from fans/ex fighters/ and even judges get cognitive bias when a fighter does a lot better than they think or one they would rather see win.

I would include the commentators in this too. I thought Jones was clearly up 2-0 through the first two rounds, but the way Rogan and Cruz were going on about DC's performance did have me second guessing myself.

 

[phantom13]

I would include the commentators in this too. I thought Jones was clearly up 2-0 through the first two rounds, but the way Rogan and Cruz were going on about DC's performance did have me second guessing myself.

Great call, was a real love in from the commentators on DC even though at best those rounds were close (not clear DC wins)

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

I watched it again just now... The commentary team was getting very excited for any Cormier offense.. sort of expected, as they all work together.

 

[BradWCE]

Wasn't really aware of this until after the fight. Woodley and Maia only had 5 weeks notice. Maia said because of the short amount of time to prepare he couldn't get to New Jersey to train wrestling as he usually does. A longer camp almost certainly doesn't change the result but it's a bit of a shame that Maia had to wait so long for the title shot and then it got rushed. If he said he needed a bit more time they'd have moved on to someone else and he may have never got a title shot.

Obviously both had the same time to prepare. Woodley would have benefited from more time too. I just think additional time to prepare would have helped Maia more because it was such a bad stylistic match-up for him.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Wasn't really aware of this until after the fight. Woodley and Maia only had 5 weeks notice. Maia said because of the short amount of time to prepare he couldn't get to New Jersey to train wrestling as he usually does. A longer camp almost certainly doesn't change the result but it's a bit of a shame that Maia had to wait so long for the title shot and then it got rushed. If he said he needed a bit more time they'd have moved on to someone else and he may have never got a title shot.

Obviously both had the same time to prepare. Woodley would have benefited from more time too. I just think the additional time to prepare would have helped Maia more because it was such a bad stylistic match-up for him.

I can't remember the exact time he started, but I'm pretty sure Woodley announced he started his camp in May for an opponent he wasn't aware of, for a fight around July.

EDIT: it was mid-April. obviously, the opponent matters a fair bit tho..
https://www.mmamania.com/2017/4/17/...r-next-fight-ufc-213-conor-mcgregor-nick-diaz