List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

[unplugged]

Sounds like the Gibbs thing is gonna be similar to last year :/

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Has a 5 way trade every been executed in the history of the trade period?

That's not important when discussing these things, its just an opinion

 

[Go Woods]

A fight back to form after ban sees midfielder extend contract for 2018
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-02/pie-turns-back-on-free-agency-to-resign

 

[Ga Doey]

I can appreciate the work done by admin just now. Good fun banter but perhaps over the top. Thanks for keeping me around and back on topic we go.......


Who here feels that if we throw everything at Lever we will be just searching for a full back all over again next year. Kind of a sideways move in my opinion.

 

[DaVe86]

Don't say I approve of it but potentially...

Collingwood gives pick 6 + 36

Gets Lions picks 12 + 18

Collingwood gives 12+18 to crows

Gets: Lever + steak knives pick or player

Adelaide gives 12 + 18 for Gibbs + steak knives

Blues give pick 12 to GWS for Smith, Kennedy and Griffen

GWS get back in the 1st round and salary cap relief

The above is just a hypothetical, but if Lever is to leave Crows and Gibbs to leave Carlton you sense it will be a complex trade involving third and even fourth parties

That's basically exactly how it would go down, which would mean we basically give pic 6 for Lever.

I'd be happy with that.

So I can see the speculation because it all fits really nicely.

As I said, the problem for me is his contract price. Way overs.

I agree with an earlier poster, I reckon he could develop into a similar player to Rance. At 21 years old, he has a lot of developing to do. He is the same height, but just a lot lighter. In my opinion, I have no doubt he can be a genuine full back, as opposed to a third man up type.

 

[unplugged]

Doesn't sound to me like Carlton are getting Devon Smith.

 

[Go Woods]

I can appreciate the work done by admin just now. Good fun banter but perhaps over the top. Thanks for keeping me around and back on topic we go.......


Who here feels that if we throw everything at Lever we will be just searching for a full back all over again next year. Kind of a sideways move in my opinion.

I honestly think Lever will become a super FB, but I don't want to give up 2 1sts for him...still think he's going to Demons tho.

 

[loki04]

I can appreciate the work done by admin just now. Good fun banter but perhaps over the top. Thanks for keeping me around and back on topic we go.......


Who here feels that if we throw everything at Lever we will be just searching for a full back all over again next year. Kind of a sideways move in my opinion.

Backwards move.

Crows want 2 firsts for him.

 

[Go Woods]

Few posts on here recently suspect Pies to have a quiet trade period....I think now we are going to be involved upto out eyeballs.

 

[loki04]

That's basically exactly how it would go down, which would mean we basically give pic 6 for Lever.

I'd be happy with that.

So I can see the speculation because it all fits really nicely.

As I said, the problem for me is his contract price. Way overs.

I agree with an earlier poster, I reckon he could develop into a similar player to Rance. At 21 years old, he has a lot of developing to do. He is the same height, but just a lot lighter. In my opinion, I have no doubt he can be a genuine full back, as opposed to a third man up type.

Doesn't have Rances natural pace.

If there is one stumbling block to his conversion from lowish possession (16 ave) winning intercept Half back to full time bonafide KPD it is a lack of speed to keep up with the quicks.

The other thing is Rance gets a lot of grace with umpires in regards to illegal holds vs bigger forwards, do you know of a single Pie player to ever be favoured?

 

[soreplums]

Few posts on here recently suspect Pies to have a quiet trade period....I think now we are going to be involved upto out eyeballs.

I like the fact that there hasn't been much noise about us

 

[left at home]

We need about 4-5 top end talent over the next two years, getting Lever for the price that the crows wants stops that. Top end talent in the draft is the key for us moving up the ladder and long term success.

 

[loki04]

Few posts on here recently suspect Pies to have a quiet trade period....I think now we are going to be involved upto out eyeballs.

Imagine if we get him for 2 firsts or equivalent (Scharenberg).

pick 7, pick 7, pick 6, pick 6 (or 2018 1st rounder in a super draft)

Make up Treloar and Lever.

That is a hefty trade price for 2 players.

 

[soreplums]

A fight back to form after ban sees midfielder extend contract for 2018
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-02/pie-turns-back-on-free-agency-to-resign

So now he can be traded?

 

[loki04]

We need about 4-5 top end talent over the next two years, getting Lever for the price that the crows wants stops that. Top end talent in the draft is the key for us moving up the ladder and long term success.

Exactly.

Not only that Crows defence has been a well oiled unit all year. How much of the Lever Hype train is his potential to become a Rance FB vs having teammates like Kelly and Talia holding down key roles allowing him to peel off his man and be 3rd in?

 

[Schraderbrau]

Surely Stringer is worth the risk now that he can be picked up at a bargain basement price.

 

[Scodog10]

Yes, let's compare.

At Lever's age, Harry Taylor hadn't yet played a game. Lever creams 21 year old Talia in most categories (16v8 disposals, 6.2v2.6 marks, 1.6 i50v0.6, 81%v74% disposal efficiency, 6.7v4.3 CP, 3.5v1.5 rebound 50s). You'll find that Lever shades Andrews as well. And Rance. And McGovern who,like Taylor, hadn't played yet.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=2&type=A&pid1=4027&pid2=3326&fid1=O&fid2=O

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...2=20&type=A&pid1=4027&pid2=4086&fid1=O&fid2=O

The fact is the guy is very well advanced for someone of his age, and that fact is undeniable. There's become a fixation which is rapidly turning into a fetish over his supposed inability to intercept when no one else at his age would possibly be compared in that way.

At the age of 21 Taylor was the CHB for the reigning premier so it's a bit rough to count him out for not being 80 days younger...

If your initial question were what defenders are getting the same numbers as him you'd be right, but you asked "Which of the current crop of KPD started out as one-on-one defenders at that age?" and I gave you the names of three players that were holding down KPD roles at 21.

By shifting the goalposts to a numbers based comparison in a defensive role I'll provide different names with Langdon, L Ryan, Burton and Scharenberg all offering similar numbers in the mid sized defender role. Hell look at Sicily who'd never played a defensive minute in his life until round 12 this year then averages 24p, 9m, 4.5R50's and 1.6I50's in the last 10 matches of the season in an intercept defensive role.

You are clearly correct that he's well advanced for his age, but that doesn't mean he compares favourably in a role he has no exposure in moving forward. The role we would need him to fill. What do you see in his game that will translate as a KPD aside from physique and past performance in a third tall role?

 

[jackcass]

There was 18 teams in the comp last time I looked.

GWS have been penalised their 1st round pick last I heard.

 

[SpongePie]

That's not important when discussing these things, its just an opinion

Im genuinely asking. Has it ever been done?

 

[Anzacday]

So now he can be traded?

Yes.

 

[SpongePie]

Surely Stringer is worth the risk now that he can be picked up at a bargain basement price.

Let's assume we wanted to take that risk. Let's also assume that Geelong and Essendon are front runners to get him, at an equally bargain price. What would you trade to get Stringer in?

 

[Mongo Ming]

Lever is 195cm and 93kg

Oh snap. He is too. Serves me right for being lazy and using Wikipedia. Anyway he probably still has to chisel that puppy fat into man meat before he can take on the gorillas.

 

[jackcass]

Not for me. I'd be happy with what he's producing right now, the rest is sugar. The guy is being maligned because he's ahead of the development curve, which is a little perverse.

I don't think anyone has actually maligned him, merely questioned his worth and longer term potential.

 

[MagpieBat]

GWS have been penalised their 1st round pick last I heard.

They were docked 1000 points off the value of their 'natural' first round pick (which would ordinarily be pick 15 on 2017 finishing), which sees the points value of the pick reduce from 1112 points to 112. The pick accordingly drops from 15 to 63.

 

[DaVe86]

At the age of 21 Taylor was the CHB for the reigning premier so it's a bit rough to count him out for not being 80 days younger...

If your initial question were what defenders are getting the same numbers as him you'd be right, but you asked "Which of the current crop of KPD started out as one-on-one defenders at that age?" and I gave you the names of three players that were holding down KPD roles at 21.

If you want to shift the goalposts to a numbers based comparison in a defensive role I'll provide different names with Langdon, L Ryan, Burton and Scharenberg all offering similar numbers in the mid sized defender role. Hell look at Sicily who'd never played a defensive minute in his life until round 12 this year then averages 24p, 9m, 4.5R50's and 1.6I50's in the last 10 matches of the season in an intercept defensive role.

You are clearly correct that he's well advanced for his age, but that doesn't mean he compares favourably in a role he has no exposure in moving forward. The role we would need him to fill. What do you see in his game that will translate as a KPD aside from physique and past performance in a third tall role?

Does Rance actually ever play on the best forward though? Same could be said about recent greats like Scarlett and even Harry Taylor. They always had someone who did the big job like Lonergan or Astbury.

It seems the modern day full back is more the person who stays at home to cover the incoming contest. He doesn't necessarily play on the full forward...mainly because the stay at home full forward barely exists anymore.

FWIW, I think Lever will develop into a great Full Back. I think he has all the attributes.

The question for me isn't whether he is worth pick 6. He clearly is.

The question is whether he is worth $850K. In my opinion, the only full backs in the AFL i'd spend that on is Alex Rance or Talia.