Recruiting Trade & Free Agency V

[Beerfish]

#lolhawf

 

[Vindicater]

Anyone else still having a good chuckle over Hawforne's lack of trade involvement? So much for their supporters assertions they'd get 2nd round picks for spuds like Hartunge and Puopoloe.

ABASI promised me there were big changes coming!

 

[Gumby2Hurley]

Anyone else still having a good chuckle over Hawforne's lack of trade involvement? So much for their supporters assertions they'd get 2nd round picks for spuds like Hartunge and Puopoloe.

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

Live draft night trading from 2018

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...g-on-draft-night-in-2018-20171023-gz6g0n.html

 

[Fozdog]

Song and dance would be 2 1st rounders and Kochhead would hate dealing with us.

Christ. That would be worse than Gordon sticking his head in.

 

[mickd]

Mate I've been chuckling since about this time last year.

That list was s**t then, and they don't seem to have realised it.

The only valuable commodities they have are Gunston, Mitchell and Burton - and they aren't trading them...

Norf’s list is in a much worse position and they did nothing during trade week

They are in trouble for a few years

 

[BomberARMY]

Not sure if this is the right thread but couldn't find anywhere else to ask or put this question forward. My apologies if this has been asked or addressed, but am I the only one who thinks we need to get a little more ruthless with our decision making on the list management? We always seem to wait on making list culling decisions. Guys that have been around for years and haven't made any inroads to being solid AFL players should be moved on and others given an opportunity.

 

[Lore]

Not sure if this is the right thread but couldn't find anywhere else to ask or put this question forward. My apologies if this has been asked or addressed, but am I the only one who thinks we need to get a little more ruthless with our decision making on the list management? We always seem to wait on making list culling decisions. Guys that have been around for years and haven't made any inroads to being solid AFL players should be moved on and others given an opportunity.

There's about six threads on this topic, but this one is fine

As for your question, we have been a bit slow to turn over the list in the last few years, we held on to a few guys from around 09-12 for longer than we maybe should have, in part possibly due to the draft sanctions that we had in 2013 and 2014 (couldn't replace them with any real talent). Since then we've had a relatively deep cull and rebuild, with two lots of 6 or 7 players being brought in via the drafts at the end of 15 and 16, plus alternative talent and rookie pathways have been reasonably fruitful.

I'm not expecting this year to be a deep cull, because with retirements and trades we have already made space and used our best draft picks. Anyone who could have been turned over this year has been lucky, as their mature bodies and experience is more useful to us as depth than a half-baked kid from the back of this years draft (we're already drafting into the 80s just to take the minimum of 3). They will probably get turned over next year instead, because next year is apparently a 'super draft' and more talent will apparently be available later in the draft.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Anyone else still having a good chuckle over Hawforne's lack of trade involvement? So much for their supporters assertions they'd get 2nd round picks for spuds like Hartunge and Puopoloe.

their "Big Fish" thread had a hell of a twist at the end

 

[BomberARMY]

There's about six threads on this topic, but this one is fine

As for your question, we have been a bit slow to turn over the list in the last few years, we held on to a few guys from around 09-12 for longer than we maybe should have, in part possibly due to the draft sanctions that we had in 2013 and 2014 (couldn't replace them with any real talent). Since then we've had a relatively deep cull and rebuild, with two lots of 6 or 7 players being brought in via the drafts at the end of 15 and 16, plus alternative talent and rookie pathways have been reasonably fruitful.

I'm not expecting this year to be a deep cull, because with retirements and trades we have already made space and used our best draft picks. Anyone who could have been turned over this year has been lucky, as their mature bodies and experience is more useful to us as depth than a half-baked kid from the back of this years draft (we're already drafting into the 80s just to take the minimum of 3). They will probably get turned over next year instead, because next year is apparently a 'super draft' and more talent will apparently be available later in the draft.

Thanks for the insightful response and I agree with most of what you have said. People always talk about depth etc.. but if they're not even being used in that regard, then there's probably no use having them around when we could pump games into younger kids or even some other mature age gems to give them a shot. I mean how many games did Bird, Smack, Howlett, Jerrett, Morgan or Dea get between them this year? (Genuine question).

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Watching the first qrt against Port no wonder Smith and Saad wanted to play for us that was some of the most exhilarating footy I've seen lolols

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

Watching the first qrt against Port no wonder Smith and Saad wanted to play for us that was some of the most exhilarating footy I've seen lolols

Also looked like port had smoked 14 cones (each) before the match.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Also looked like port had smoked 14 cones (each) before the match.

You saying Port didn't come to play?

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

You saying Port didn't come to play.

Yeah. I think it was both - they didn't turn up and we were in God mode in that first quarter.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Yeah. I think it was both - they didn't turn up and we were in God mode in that first quarter.

Yeah/nah we smashed them and then burnt them on the outside and they couldn't stop it don't think even Richmonds defence could stop that transition.

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

Yeah/nah we smashed them and then burnt them on the outside and they couldn't stop it don't think even Richmonds defence could stop that transition.

I need to watch that replay again - my memory of watching it was that some of Port's efforts were awful, apart from that first quarter, where everything we did came off, including that ridiculous goal by Joey.

I don't think Richmond would let us play like that...

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

I need to watch that replay again - my memory of watching it was that some of Port's efforts were awful, apart from that first quarter, where everything we did came off, including that ridiculous goal by Joey.

I don't think Richmond would let us play like that...

If we move it quick by hand and foot Richmond wont be able to stop it won't give them time to set up the defence going the other way.

 

[bomberz20_72]

What would he cost us?

Several Top shelf Jackets

 

[bomberz20_72]

Thanks for the insightful response and I agree with most of what you have said. People always talk about depth etc.. but if they're not even being used in that regard, then there's probably no use having them around when we could pump games into younger kids or even some other mature age gems to give them a shot. I mean how many games did Bird, Smack, Howlett, Jerrett, Morgan or Dea get between them this year? (Genuine question).

The thing is but we aren't expecting to be cellar dwellers which is where you are when you 'get games into the kids' the senior guys on the list will have us in a stronger position, if called upon, if we play finals and progress through September. A kid taken pick 100 this year certainly won't do that.

Look to the end of next year for more changes/retirements as many have stated it's a very strong and deep draft next year

 

[bomberz20_72]

Yeah/nah we smashed them and then burnt them on the outside and they couldn't stop it don't think even Richmonds defence could stop that transition.

But they did stop us... about 2 or 3 weeks prior to the Port match

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

But they did stop us... about 2 or 3 weeks prior to the Port match

Port had the best defence in the league leading leading up to the game. Imo teams are going to have a hard time trying to stop us we could run them ragged.

 

[Bomberbuzz1]

Thanks for the insightful response and I agree with most of what you have said. People always talk about depth etc.. but if they're not even being used in that regard, then there's probably no use having them around when we could pump games into younger kids or even some other mature age gems to give them a shot. I mean how many games did Bird, Smack, Howlett, Jerrett, Morgan or Dea get between them this year? (Genuine question).

If we had a season of injuries like GWS had this year you wouldn't want to be stocked with young blokes. We've also had the same list manager for quite some time and have probably backed our draftees to improve. I understand the frustration of holding on to a player until there worthless but moving forward I think the list will remove anyone over 25 and outside the best 22 and replaced with youth. We then have to be smart with our outgoing trades to get value back and maintain our position in the top 8.
I hope we just hit the draft for the next two years and not trade anyone in that will only strangle our salary cap.

 

[BomberBrownyyy]

I just came across a pic from a year ago seems Smack was a groomsman at Rory Sloanes wedding they must be very close mates.... keeping Mckernan would definitely help if we had a crack to get Sloane

 

[Lore]

Thanks for the insightful response and I agree with most of what you have said. People always talk about depth etc.. but if they're not even being used in that regard, then there's probably no use having them around when we could pump games into younger kids or even some other mature age gems to give them a shot. I mean how many games did Bird, Smack, Howlett, Jerrett, Morgan or Dea get between them this year? (Genuine question).

Bird got two games, both were in weeks where Watson was rested. Watson has now retired. He has 157 games of experience including finals and a premiership, he's basically plug and play - he can step into the team at short-notice and play a role. Not our best player, but he can be accountable for a man and has the tank to go all game, rather than going missing after a quarter as a lot of the kids do in their first few games. There's a bit of confusion about when his contract end date is, he's either out of contract or he might still have another year, in which case he's not going anywhere.
Smack played two games as a ruckman (he's our third ruck after Leuey and Bellchambers, who are both injury prone) and one game as a tall forward when Hooker hurt his finger the week after the bye. We have such a small amount of depth in this area, Draper is said to be quite raw and he's the next best we have. We also apparently have Lavender now, but he'd be even rawer than Draper
Howlett got seven games, one as a forward and the rest as a mid, he was depth for Green (fwd) and Parish (mid). With Hocking and Stanton gone we already have less depth where his strengths are concerned, although Smith comes into the squad and would start ahead of Howlett in that role.
Jerrett didn't play a single game this year. He plays as a wing/forward, although I think they tried him in defence at training earlier this year. He's probably number one most likely to be delisted (we have to delist at least one and probably no more than one before the draft). He's 24... if he was going to be amazing, he'd be amazing by now.
Morgan is a second year player, he had barely any games last year due to injury (he was also drafted with an injury history) and got none again this year. Reports on his progress is a bit hit and miss, he's supposed to be a line-breaking defender. With Saad coming in, McKenna hitting his straps, McNiece on the cheap list, Morgan could easily be demoted to the rookie list if we needed a senior list spot. He has more raw talent than the kids in the back of the draft though. We'd probably be better served demoting/delisting him next year so we can get another pick in the supposed 'super draft', rather than putting an 18yo on the list on a two year contract (draft kids get min. 2yrs).
Dea is contracted to 2018, so he's not going anywhere. He played most games last year, and another 7 this year, even when the only injuries in defence were to the talls (he can play small or tall, but he's probably further down the list for talls). If we had a more normal number of injuries we'd be screwed without him.

We have to delist one more so that we have enough space to draft three (because you have to draft at least three according to the rules). We traded out our first and second round picks, so our first three picks are 48, 67 and 85. If we delist more than one, then we will either have a shorter senior list (to what purpose?), pick up a delisted free agent (are they actually an upgrade on the player we already have?), upgrade a rookie, or we have to take our next available pick to the draft.

Currently the next pick we have after 85 is pick 103. It will move up a bit as other clubs pass or use their picks for bidding, but it's still going to be pretty late in the draft. So we have to weigh up whether a kid taken late in the draft is going to be of any use to us compared to keeping Howlett or Bird, a DFA, or upgrading a rookie and then drafting a new rookie. Most likely the answer is no - none of those others are likely to be accountable for a man, run all day and play a role in the team at the drop of a hat the way Howlett or Bird would. With rookie upgrades, especially with the rules about the rookie list changing, there is no real advantage to upgrading a rookie over keeping a depth player now, except to keep a rookie that might look for opportunities and a better payday elsewhere. I doubt any of our current rookies would be particularly interesting to other clubs.

The argument with regard to pumping games into kids instead of the players mentioned above is a good one, but it doesn't have anything to do with delisting depth players. The players we need to pump games into are already on the list and won't benefit from others being delisted (unless we change our approach to selection and select on age rather than merit). If they deserve games, they'll earn them anyway. And if they don't deserve them then at least Bird/Howlett can be accountable for a man, run all day and play a role.

Lastly, any kid we pick up this year is going to get a two year contract and can't be delisted next year without us paying out the second year of their contract. The 2018 draft is meant to be a really good draft, and lots of clubs are already trying to get as many picks as they can for next year. So we need to manage our list in such a way that senior spots are open in time for next years draft. The easiest way to do that is to keep players on the list for a year, rather than getting draft kids on two-year contracts.

 

[Duckworth]

Bird got two games, both were in weeks where Watson was rested. Watson has now retired. He has 157 games of experience including finals and a premiership, he's basically plug and play - he can step into the team at short-notice and play a role. Not our best player, but he can be accountable for a man and has the tank to go all game, rather than going missing after a quarter as a lot of the kids do in their first few games. There's a bit of confusion about when his contract end date is, he's either out of contract or he might still have another year, in which case he's not going anywhere.

Maybe he has a trigger clause? Makes sense with the injury concerns he had when he was drafted.