Ranking the "big six" managers

[Established1870]

Aston Villa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arsenal and City confirmed.

Nottingham Forest>>>>>>>>>>> Arsenal, City, Spurs and Chelsea confirmed.

 

[moomba]

For me Pep's biggest achievement with us has been the improvement he's got out of the individuals in the squad. Stones, Otamendi, Sterling. Delph has been a masterstroke at LB. Even Silva, KDB etc are playing better than they ever have.

Not too fussed whether or not he's thought of as the best. I'd worry about whether or not he could excel at a club without resources if he was at a club without resources.

 

[chef]

you wouldnt give michelangelo crayons to do the sistine chapel

Haha true. Its just pretty s**t for the rest of us atm.

Hopefully Roman can fully back Conte with the targets he wants or i think he'll walk.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Nottingham Forest>>>>>>>>>>> Arsenal, City, Spurs and Chelsea confirmed.

Please put Arse last. Only recognisable triumph is a Cup Winners Cup

 

[FAITH]

being able to improve footballers shouldn't manage how much you've spent, what clubs you've been at, that's coaching. sure, we've spent a lot of money. but the signings of stones, sterling, walker in particular were all panned as being overpriced and that the clubs they leave would be better off with the money. then a season later they're all playing excellent, consistent football. that's the sort of manager the best players flock to. and you can see time and time again examples of pep developing and nurturing footballers.

klopp has had a larger budget at liverpool than he did at dortmund. not everyone excels with bigger budgets. otherwise moyes would still be at united, and mark hughes would be entering his 10th year as city manager. what klopp did at dortmund was absolutely insane. he transformed unknowns (barrios, sahin, kagawa, lewandowski etc) into title winners. they made a champions league final. it hasnt translated over to liverpool for whatever reasons but he has shown he is a supreme nurturer of talent.

you wouldnt give michelangelo crayons to do the sistine chapel

Bloody hell mags, you've become so delusional recently.

 

[jd2010]

Conte
Peak Mou
Pep
Poch
Current Mourinho
Klopp
Wenger

Peak Wenger was before my time thankfully

Adjusted peak mou and pep around based off what mou did in the CL with Porto.

 

[jd2010]

For me Pep's biggest achievement with us has been the improvement he's got out of the individuals in the squad. Stones, Otamendi, Sterling. Delph has been a masterstroke at LB. Even Silva, KDB etc are playing better than they ever have.

Not too fussed whether or not he's thought of as the best. I'd worry about whether or not he could excel at a club without resources if he was at a club without resources.

What's tough for pep is he can't do anything about the resources he has. City was a risk for him because winning there doesn't really tick off any question marks that hang over him whilst it came with the risk to his reputation. The only thing he can do at city which exceeds the minimum expectation is winning the CL which he actually looks like doing too

 

[Established1870]

Adjusted peak mou and pep around based off what mou did in the CL with Porto.

Mate they played Monaco in the final and played Deportivo La Coruna in the Semis to get there. If Monaco won it then I doubt the Special One ever takes off.

It's a great achievement but let's please acknowledge that 2004 was a particularly piss weak year in terms of quality champions of anything aside from the Invincibles.

If people want a benchmark for Mourinho's career then it really should be Inter because that was when he was tactically at his best and the most successful in terms of trophies. Was also universally loved when he left, not hated.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Mate they played Monaco in the final and played Deportivo La Coruna in the Semis to get there. If Monaco won it then I doubt the Special One ever takes off.

It's a great achievement but let's please acknowledge that 2004 was a particularly piss weak year in terms of quality champions of anything aside from the Invincibles.

If people want a benchmark for Mourinho's career then it really should be Inter because that was when he was tactically at his best and the most successful in terms of trophies. Was also universally loved when he left, not hated.

Jose's Porto still beat a SAF lead United that had some handy players (he got lucky but he did the job)

 

[Sozabarus]

Mate they played Monaco in the final and played Deportivo La Coruna in the Semis to get there. If Monaco won it then I doubt the Special One ever takes off.

It's a great achievement but let's please acknowledge that 2004 was a particularly piss weak year in terms of quality champions of anything aside from the Invincibles.

If people want a benchmark for Mourinho's career then it really should be Inter because that was when he was tactically at his best and the most successful in terms of trophies. Was also universally loved when he left, not hated.

Deportivo were a very strong team back then. They beat Juventus and Milan on route to that semi final and were contenders for the title in La Liga. Monaco beat Real Madrid and Chelsea so obviously had something about them. It's very unfair to diminish the achievement of winning the tournament by saying they played no one good. It maybe wasn't the hardest run possible but they still had to win those games.

Mourinho was always destined for great things even if they had lost the final. He also won the UEFA Cup the year before don't forget.

 

[jd2010]

Mate they played Monaco in the final and played Deportivo La Coruna in the Semis to get there. If Monaco won it then I doubt the Special One ever takes off.

It's a great achievement but let's please acknowledge that 2004 was a particularly piss weak year in terms of quality champions of anything aside from the Invincibles.

If people want a benchmark for Mourinho's career then it really should be Inter because that was when he was tactically at his best and the most successful in terms of trophies. Was also universally loved when he left, not hated.

Deportivo had finished above Real Madrid that season. And like mentioned they knocked off Man U in the knock outs too

 

[jod23]

It's partly why I'm not sure how to answer or rate this.
I have no doubt that if Klopp or Poch had the budget that Pep and Mourinho have in the market then they'd win trophies.

Klopp is a couple of players short defensively of winning a title and we're a couple of players in attack short.
Would Pep win the league with their budgets, particularly ours?

How much does coaching ability factor in as I'd the reason we have largely overachieved for where our budget and spending suggests we should is more to do with coaching than anything else, something previously shown at Southampton. We have a great coach that's a little short of what he needs to win.

Of all the things we get mocked for this is the most hilarious and pathetic.
We finished ahead of the clubs that fans mock us for. So if all we did was put pressure on what does that say about the rest lol?

I agree with this. Coaching only gets you so far. Who wins most the trophies in England over the last 10 years. United, City and Chelsea. What do they have that other clubs dont? Far more money.

Who wins all the trophies in Germany? Bayern Munich, what do they have the rest of the clubs dont? Far more money.

Who wins all the trophies in Spain? Real and Barca, what do they have that the rest of the clubs dont? Far more money.

$$$ = trophies so it's hard to rate coaches.

Do I think Klopp would take City to the league title with the budget Pep has had? Absolutely. I think Poch would have too, Conte as well.

So it makes it really difficult to judge.

You'd get a true judgement on the best managers if the six of them took over the bottom six sides in the Championship and all six were only allowed to spend a certain amount of money. So a salary cap if you will. Then give them 5-6 years to see which coach can build a winning side.

But we will never see that happen so it's guess work at best.

What you can say is that each coach IMO makes their team better.

We are far better off under Klopp that we were under Rodgers, back in the CL, through to the knock out rounds. Made a EL final and a League Cup final, bought far better player, have a much better squad. Play far better football. It's night and day.

What Poch has done at Spurs is remarkable. He has them in the CL, has them finishing above Arsenal, had them in a title race. Silverware eludes him but he's clearly made Spurs better.

Mou does play dour football but the years after SAF were barren and wayward. He's righted the ship and brought silverware almost immediately and now has United as City's closest challenger.

Conte came in and took Chelsea to a league title at the first time of asking, his real test will come in Europe where he has a poor record.

Pep has come in and sure he has an unrivaled budget but City could win everything this year and are on track for an invincibles year. Before that, City were up and down, one minute title winners, the next fighting for top four. You feel with Pep in charge, they could win the next 5-6 league titles.

It's only Wenger that is going backwards you feel. But he has been in the game a long time and is just probably a bit stale.

 

[Established1870]

Alright I probably made the teams I mentioned sound like a bunch of useless s**t trucks. I acknowledge that they were strong for their time (Porto had Deco and Carvalho, Monaco had Morientes and Evra and Deportivo had the great Juan Carlos Valeron).

But you put those teams against modern teams at their level (Roma, Atletico or Spurs) and I'd give the edge to the latter three. Deportivo in particular were very strong (it was their peak Super Depor years) but in comparison to now a lot of those teams back then (even Milan, Juve and United) weren't exactly world class at the time.

Real are a different story considering they never had any balance in their side despite having arguably the best collection of talent in club level at the time. They struggled for a number of years after 2002 before Mourinho got them back on track.

 

[moomba]

You'd get a true judgement on the best managers if the six of them took over the bottom six sides in the Championship and all six were only allowed to spend a certain amount of money. So a salary cap if you will. Then give them 5-6 years to see which coach can build a winning side.

I don't even see that as a good comparison. Skills that would enable you to get the best out of a bottom 6 championship side are different to skills that you need to succeed at the top end. Would be a fun experiment though.

 

[Established1870]

Mourinho was always destined for great things even if they had lost the final. He also won the UEFA Cup the year before don't forget.

Whilst his career would've been on the rise regardless of the result (unless Porto were destroyed in the final), I personally believe that if he didn't win the UCL that year then he wouldn't have gotten the Chelsea job. That UCL win made him, so without it his career could be completely different.

I personally think "What if Mourinho lost?" is one of the best and most underrated what if scenarios to think about in regards to modern football.

 

[Sozabarus]

Whilst his career would've been on the rise regardless of the result (unless Porto were destroyed in the final), I personally believe that if he didn't win the UCL that year then he wouldn't have gotten the Chelsea job. That UCL win made him, so without it his career could be completely different.

I personally think "What if Mourinho lost?" is one of the best and most underrated what if scenarios to think about in regards to modern football.

He would have gone to Liverpool and Rafa would have gone to Chelsea would be my guess.

 

[moomba]

Mourinho got broke in Madrid.

 

[chef]

Mourinho got broke in Madrid.

He wasn't the same 'special one' 2nd time around. More like the Grumpy one.

 

[jd2010]

Alright I probably made the teams I mentioned sound like a bunch of useless s**t trucks. I acknowledge that they were strong for their time (Porto had Deco and Carvalho, Monaco had Morientes and Evra and Deportivo had the great Juan Carlos Valeron).

But you put those teams against modern teams at their level (Roma, Atletico or Spurs) and I'd give the edge to the latter three. Deportivo in particular were very strong (it was their peak Super Depor years) but in comparison to now a lot of those teams back then (even Milan, Juve and United) weren't exactly world class at the time.

Real are a different story considering they never had any balance in their side despite having arguably the best collection of talent in club level at the time. They struggled for a number of years after 2002 before Mourinho got them back on track.

Porto winning the CL would be like spurs or Liverpool winning it this year. Would be truly remarkable regardless of who they draw along the way and would elevate Poch/Klopp's standing in the game incredibly.

 

[moomba]

He wasn't the same 'special one' 2nd time around. More like the Grumpy one.

Definitely not the same. And while you did win the league fairly comfortably in his second year there was something not quite right. Seemed grumpier and more happy to get into pointless conflicts.

He gets praised for creating diversions after a bad performance (like the tunnel fight last week) but that hasn't really worked since his first Chelsea stint.

 

[chef]

Definitely not the same. And while you did win the league fairly comfortably in his second year there was something not quite right. Seemed grumpier and more happy to get into pointless conflicts.

He gets praised for creating diversions after a bad performance (like the tunnel fight last week) but that hasn't really worked since his first Chelsea stint.

He seemed to turn on and treat bad a fair few of his own players too which is haunting us nowadays.

 

[Established1870]

Porto winning the CL would be like spurs or Liverpool winning it this year. Would be truly remarkable regardless of who they draw along the way and would elevate Poch/Klopp's standing in the game incredibly.

I would say that if Spurs or Pool won it this year then it would eclipse Porto in 04 due to the massive gap that exists between the truly elite clubs and pretenders like Spurs.

 

[jd2010]

I would say that if Spurs or Pool won it this year then it would eclipse Porto in 04 due to the massive gap that exists between the truly elite clubs and pretenders like Spurs.

Porto were champions league pretenders too champ

 

[jd2010]

When you look at that final 16 that year you'd have them in the bottom 6-8 which is were spurs and pool are now. Hence what Mou did was pretty remarkable

 

[jod23]

I don't even see that as a good comparison. Skills that would enable you to get the best out of a bottom 6 championship side are different to skills that you need to succeed at the top end. Would be a fun experiment though.

Yeah fair point, that comes back to the big club managers. Some managers are made to be big club managers, others not so much.