Politicians having affairs- does it change your vote?

[Maggie5]

At least wills is now marginal isn't it? Used to live there 2002 to 2006. Before that Kooyong (safe seats opposite ends)

10% swing needed to unseat Labor. Greens closing the margin but not near enough.
Labor has only lost the seat twice in the '90's.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

"Rorty" is not "rorting". In case you missed the point, my comment was a case of (as I have done with you many times) attempting to pull someone up on exaggerations and over-simplifications (like the sort you seem to enjoy baiting me with, whereby you constantly infer politicians are 'all the same').

It's obvious Barnaby has done wrong, and there are lots of implications about the money, but people are claiming the media hid it (even though 99.9% of people are learning everything via the media). So I asked someone suggesting it was being covered-up to reveal the thing being covered-up. If it was so obvious as inferred, then it would be easy for people to say what the problem is. But we still don't know, because the media is still investigating. Many suspect an Abbott fan has been feeding information to TDT. Given the way it has exploded they are seemingly holding back on any more detail because it isn't needed. Or maybe they don't know what it is. Or maybe there is no leak and Sharri Markson found the story by following up on the widely known affair Barnaby had (and the media did reveal that previous relationship 'trouble' and the 'marriage break down', but not the specifics of the affair).

A senior politician going on a trip with staffer/s is not odd. The fact they are sleeping together makes it look bad. People can look at particular choices and costs and dress it up as rorting, but the Politician may very well not get in trouble because they will similarly be able to dress it up as a work trip to the committee tasked with overseeing such things. Everyone knows these overseas trips would be mostly about the wining and dining, but if that wining and dining is with people associated with work, then it becomes hard to call it a clear rort. Taxpayers are annoyed by these expensive trips full stop. The fact two people are in a relationship while on the trip just makes our suspicion about them being junkety look that much worse.

And to be clear - the issue is worthy of detailed coverage and the dodginess appears to be fairly obvious. My point, as per usual, is that those who claim 'the media' are at fault or are colluding are over-simplifying. Look at Mueller's recent indictments, if you are unaware that There are people who want Democracies to fail who propagate and exploit these over-simplifications in order to harm Democracies - in order to harm our effectiveness as voters.

Or if you don't want the Trump reference, locally we can talk about Politicians taking money or in-kind donations (like Barnaby and Macguire). One answer is to ban all gifts. But part of that solution is that it will probably mean public funding of political parties. People aren't going to be keen for that if they think 'all politicians are corrupt'. Which they aren't. Because they aren't all the same.

Barnaby and Campion’s relationship was well known.

If the Canberra media is incapable of therefore keeping an eye on her and then quickly discovering she was being placed in highly paid, invented positions which didn’t exist before and after her... then *, they’re not journalists.

 

[GreyCrow]

There is no Me in Coalition but there is in Barname

 

[pjcrows]

Barnaby and Campion’s relationship was well known.

If the Canberra media is incapable of therefore keeping an eye on her and then quickly discovering she was being placed in highly paid, invented positions which didn’t exist before and after her... then ****, they’re not journalists.

If you've read political books by political journos it's pretty obvious that they know basically everything that's going on.

 

[GreyCrow]

ScoMo '' its about what Labor will do now''

 

[Gough]

Stupid campaigner thinks he's still in opposition.

 

[pjcrows]

Don't you love Morrison's little s**t-eating grin when he thinks he's won an argument, only to realise seconds later that he hasn't.

 

[Number37]

ScoMo is in position 1A if they choose to knife Turnbull, when it happens, he will go straight to the Abbott playbook. Labor, Labor, Labor.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Barnaby and Campion’s relationship was well known.

If the Canberra media is incapable of therefore keeping an eye on her and then quickly discovering she was being placed in highly paid, invented positions which didn’t exist before and after her... then ****, they’re not journalists.

Again: If it was so obvious that you are swearing at them and declaring them "incapable", perhaps you can tell us what these obvious signs of it being a story would've been?

But then you didn't answer the last question when you swore at them and declared them "pathetic". That was this question, which should be straight-forward for you given how bolshie and black & white you are about the issue:

If it's all so obvious, perhaps you can explain what Joyce has rorted?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Again: If it was so obvious that you are swearing at them and declaring them "incapable", perhaps you can tell us what these obvious signs of it being a story would've been?

But then you didn't answer the last question when you swore at them and declared them "pathetic". That was this question, which should be straight-forward for you given how bolshie and black & white you are about the issue:

Your question has been answered numerous times. Have you missed the part about Campion being placed in high-paying, invented jobs in MPs offices? Of course that’s a story.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...ce-intervened-in-barnaby-joyce-affair/9418692

Where the hell were these reports over six months ago when it actually happened?

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Your question has been answered numerous times. Have you missed the part about Campion being placed in high-paying, invented jobs in MPs offices? Of course that’s a story.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...ce-intervened-in-barnaby-joyce-affair/9418692

Where the hell were these reports over six months ago when it actually happened?

No you haven't answered either question. As a journalist working on policy and the events in Parliament, what is it that they are supposed to have noticed or followed up on which is so obvious as to justify your repeated anger about that not being done?

 

[Crankyhawk]

No you haven't answered either question. As a journalist working on policy and the events in Parliament, what is it that they are supposed to have noticed or followed up on which is so obvious as to justify your repeated anger about that not being done?

I agree hard to notice at time, generally staff movements between offices aren't newsworthy, but if they knew that the affair was going on (seems to be accepted that media aware but felt it wasn't worth reporting) I would have thought a media operator would just keep tabs on Vicki movements and stumble onto it at time.

That said main media are reducing staff so less bodies to do that type of background work...

 

[NSWCROW]

Posting it here because * you

 

[Bunk Moreland]

No you haven't answered either question. As a journalist working on policy and the events in Parliament, what is it that they are supposed to have noticed or followed up on which is so obvious as to justify your repeated anger about that not being done?

Given the affair was common knowledge, you honestly think it beyond the ability or remit of journalists to take a look for potential conflicts of interest? Bloody hell.

 

[Kurve]

No you haven't answered either question. As a journalist working on policy and the events in Parliament, what is it that they are supposed to have noticed or followed up on which is so obvious as to justify your repeated anger about that not being done?

Chaos in the DPMs office where staff had to be moved and chatter of Barnaby vindictively shuffling others out should have done it if this didn't.

 

[Kurve]

As a journalist working on policy and the events in Parliament, what is it that they are supposed to have noticed or followed up on which is so obvious

Breaching the Ministerial Code of Conduct.

Natalie Joyce nearly one year ago in public, confronted Vicki Campion with "you homewrecking hoe". I might have added the hoe bit. You don't think then Ratts the press should have been all over it to see if this affair wasn't actually costing the taxpayers? Misuse of taxpayers money?

 

[NSWCROW]

 

[Maggie5]

No you haven't answered either question. As a journalist working on policy and the events in Parliament, what is it that they are supposed to have noticed or followed up on which is so obvious as to justify your repeated anger about that not being done?

You don't think that Di Hallam (Chief of Staff), leaving Joyce's office and Campion working there may have raised questions amongst journalists?

Sorry not with you on this one Ratt's, coverup for mine and journalists didn't do their job!

 

[Kurve]

The timeline's been updated.

 

[Admiral Byng]

There is no Me in Coalition but there is in Barname

as a catchy slogan... it needs workshopping.

 

[Gough]

At what point does Joyce's vote become "tainted"?

 

[NSWCROW]

 

[Kurve]

View attachment 460946

Very clever but it's more about the rorting, not the rooting.

 

[NSWCROW]

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

You don't think that Di Hallam (Chief of Staff), leaving Joyce's office and Campion working there may have raised questions amongst journalists?

Sorry not with you on this one Ratt's, coverup for mine and journalists didn't do their job!

The timeline's been updated.

View attachment 460927

The problem Maggie is that AAP says Di Hallam was appointed to Inland Rail in Aug 2017. The version of events shown in ShellyG's post appears to be #FakeNews (it is being pushed around Twitter, after all). Not only does it use evocative language likely designed to influence people rather than inform them (e.g. "criminal event", or more pertinently for us, "a hush appointment"), but it seems to have errors. News Corp says from behind a paywall:

BARNABY Joyce and his estranged wife Natalie went on a seven day trip to Europe together in late June last year, shortly before the Deputy Prime Minister's girlfriend Vikki Campion fell pregnant. Mr Joyce visited Britain, Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands to map out Australia's trade future in the wake of...

Are we meant to believe that Twitter timeline which appears to have Campion on the same trip? Joyce's published claims about the trip are also almost half the $62K it claims. Unreliable.

The widely-used AAP timeline I posted a few pages ago says in Dec 2016 "Hallam later quits to take up departmental role". I highlighted the confusion:

Dec 2-17 – Joyce's Chief of staff Di Hallam reportedly seeks Joyce’s approval to have Campion transferred out of office. (A News.com.au article says she made Joyce go to the PM's office and admit the relationship, and that Campion moved around this time. AAP says she moved in April 2017 and AAP also mentions in their run-down that "Hallam later quits to take up departmental role", but it isn't clear why they put that here in Dec 2016, when they refer to her taking a position in Aug 2017 - maybe she quit for a Departmental role now, and later got given a role on the Inland Rail project, which was a Nationals' project?)

Twitter's timeline changes that to her being given a "hush appointment" at that time, so it isn't even confident enough to say it was an official appointment then. There is little about Hallam online, but Credlin mentions being offered the vacated COS role "last year" and some Twitter types reckon part of the conspiracy is revealed by how 'sudden' the arrival of Di Hallam was at the inland rail project. It's definitely worth digging into, but as of today no-one on Twitter has clear answers that differ from the reports in the media, aside from unreliable speculation.